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St. Ann
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| Posted: Dec 19 2008 at 7:30pm | IP Logged
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On 2 different occasions in the last 2 weeks I have been confronted with such total ignorance about the morality of sterilizations, IVF and surrogacy, that I more or less just froze with my jaw hanging wide open and on one occasion literally took a step back out of the conversation. These statements came from women from my parish. One woman is 74 and a grandmother , just casually talking about the child of another parish member who is biologically the parents, but carried by a surrogate....
I am just so shocked by the blatant ignorance or total disregard of the Church's teachings. No one was asking my advice or my opinion on the subject, but still, I feel I should be better prepared and if not to redirect the others, than just for my own soul's protection let it be known that maybe those situations are not all so hunky dory harmless as it may seem.
I can imagine, that I am not the only one that this happens to. What do you do in these cases?
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Stephanie
Wife and mother to Hannah '96, Maria '99, Dorothea '01, Helena '03
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folklaur
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| Posted: Dec 19 2008 at 9:07pm | IP Logged
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St. Ann wrote:
| What do you do in these cases? |
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hooboy. Well, you did ask.
Okay, to be honest, unless someone were to ask me my opinion, I would probably tend to not say anything.
There are reasons I feel this way, and there are people who will vehemently disagree with me, and I am okay with that.
These are strictly my reasons, and the way I feel about things, and I totally respect the fact that other people will feel differently about it.
Depending on the situation - if I am asked, I will respond with Church teaching.
If I am with a group of Protestants, or Non-Christians, I may share more freely, as they may not know the view of my Church.
If I am with a group of Catholics, I am less likely to say anything.
I want to be very careful to not step over the line into gossip (such as discussing the parentage of another couple's child when they are not even present.)
I feel everyone is at a different place on their faith journey.
I realize that although I may understand "this particular" sinful behavior that is being discussed and can recognize it as the sin it is, I am sure I have my own sinful behaviors that God is still working on with me. (In your OP example, I have no idea what the couple was thinking or going through or what they have confessed to their priests. I just don't feel it is my place to say anything.)
I feel that when I read the Bible, especially the Gospels, it seems that Jesus has the least patience and tolerance for those who go on and on about the "rules" and ignore the heart of a person - where they are at. The Pharisees were all about the rules. But their hearts were all wrong. If someone came to me wanting to understand I would be more than happy to explain the Church's stance and reasoning. But I do not feel that I should be lecturing anyone about "the rules." That is just me. Others feel differently.
I think that religious righteousness/zealousness can be just as sinful as disobedience.
I would not say anything to imply I condoned the behavior, and I would probably just excuse myself from the conversation.
...now, where did I put my flame retardant suit?.....
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Dec 19 2008 at 9:27pm | IP Logged
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One thing in these types of situations I think needs to be addressed is that it's very hard for people to separate the sinfulness of the behavior from the goodness of the child.. you get things that are basically "so you think so-n-so should never have been born" or such. When in fact all children are blessings even those with a beginning not approved by the Church. That includes children born outside of marriage as well as with medical intervention etc.
Maybe you could find something to say about how gracious God is in blessing us even when we're disobedient? 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Jen L.
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| Posted: Dec 20 2008 at 10:16am | IP Logged
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I tend to not speak up and regret it later. My advice, (which I need to take!), is to pray to the Holy Spirit for the words that God would have you use before you open your mouth. We do want to speak the truth with Love and just can't do it without God.
I pray the Litany of Humility to help me:
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Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Dec 20 2008 at 12:48pm | IP Logged
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I was recently confronted with something similar. Protestant relatives asked me to pray for a more distant relative (on the in laws side) for a successful IVF.
No one asked me what I think about IVF (dedicated evangelicals who probably don't even know there are moral issues with IVF...its not widely understood in these circles). I don't think it even occurred to them that I'd have a moral issue with it. And they are extremely NOT open to Catholic teaching, so I see no point in causing a point of contention that will make future conversations about God more awkward (live to debate another day, iykwim).
Plus, it isn't going to be received well if I tell a woman who is desperate to have one child that IVF is immoral while my 6 children are at my ankles. Feels uncharitable to me.
I prayed for God's will. It didn't work and they are trying again.
If I were confronted with this situation in a Catholic context...I'd pray very hard to the Holy Spirit for the right words in the right moment.
I feel your pain...
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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St. Ann
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| Posted: Dec 20 2008 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
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I even mentioned this to our irish Pastor, who is past retirement age. In brief he said that their ignorance is beyond hope and there is nothing one can do.
I didn't have the heart to question him further about it, but I tell ya', I was a bit discouraged. These topics are never touched in Church.
The ladies who made the "ignorant" comments are upstanding church and catholic school members.
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Stephanie
Wife and mother to Hannah '96, Maria '99, Dorothea '01, Helena '03
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: How to respond?
