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MacBeth
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Hey folks! I thought I'd open up a topic to discuss the interesting various developments of kids who are not reading at three, five, seven, or later, or who have delays in other areas, but are NORMAL! I have seen a behavioral differnec in my youngest (nearly 9--who would have been diagnosed with ADD or some other variation for sure if he were in school). His habit of attention has increased dramatically, and he is becoming a much easier person to live with all 'round. Thank you, Lord!!
Elizabeth mentioned that she feels that many times delays are misdiagnosed...I am inclined to agree heartily, having had the same thought just before she mentioned it.
Of course, some things, like spelling, may be permanent disabilities even for adults 
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
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MacBeth's Blog 
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Elizabeth
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Here's my question: what's normal? Seriously. Christian will do what Christian will do when Christian is ready to do it (to paraphrase one of my new favorite songs). He was born three weeks late. He didn't have any words until he was nearly two. He didn't read fluently until twelve. He could not write legibly until a couple of months ago (he'll be thirteen in May). He did not understand multiplication until we decided to just move on and begin division. Now, it all makes sense. I can't imagine him driving at sixteen. There's no way he'll be ready to leave home at eighteen. It's all later. But once he masters something, it's normal. he speaks normally. he reads fluently. Even his handwriting is now legible (PTL).
Socially, he is also behind. He jsut doesn't read the room well. I'm praying this, too will come. But this ISN'T normal. He's needier and I wish sometimes that I could hang a sign around his neck that said, "I'm learning it all s-l-o-w-l-y, so don't judge me."It doesn't help that he is a big kid, physically...So...what was the question again?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bridget
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That's my husband. He couldn't read till late, about 11. I've
seen his report cards from school. It's true. If he were in school
today, they would have him on heavy meds. He was wild and
stubborn. He wouldn't fit the mold.
He graduated from college with honors and 2 masters degrees.
In IQ tests he is well up in the genius level. He has been
successful at many interesting things, Scottish Highland
games, medieval recreation batttles, he has been published in
professional journals... He just has little sense. Luckily, he had
enough sense to marry a sensible Dutch woman. 
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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Elizabeth
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Now, THERE'S,an interesting correlation. Christian is Mike all over again...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bridget
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Some kids come by it honestly.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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cathhomeschool
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Texas Bluebonnets
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| Posted: Feb 13 2005 at 9:42am | IP Logged
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MacBeth wrote:
| I have seen a behavioral difference in my youngest (nearly 9--who would have been diagnosed with ADD or some other variation for sure if he were in school). His habit of attention has increased dramatically, and he is becoming a much easier person to live with all 'round. |
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Macbeth, I think that Paul and my Zachary (9 1/2) are two peas in a pod! When we started homeschooling, I quickly realized that Nicholas (my oldest) would be bored to tears in school because he read well at an early age. I also quickly realized that Zachary needed to be homeschooled because of his short attention span and inability to sit still. He has definitely settled down, which I think is in part responsible for his increased reading and spelling ability. -- It's hard to read when you don't sit still long enough to look carefully at the words on the page!
In school, he would have been labeled ADD or something similar, yet it would not have helped him to settle down or cooperate. He didn't wiggle out of rebellion, but because he just couldn't help himself! Even though he is calmer now, he still wiggles a lot compared to Nicholas. When we're going over a math lesson together, he's always drumming his fingers, swinging legs, tapping pencils...something is moving. This frustrated Tim at first until I pointed out that moving actually helps Zachary concentrate more. It wasn't distracting him as Tim had suspected! In a classroom, all of the wiggling would be too much -- distracting for the teacher and other students. At home, it's okay. I'm so grateful for homeschooling!
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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ladybugs
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I can really appreciate this thread.
My daughter, Juliana, who will be 7 in a couple of weeks, has only recently learned all of her letters. She has expressed an interest in learning how to read so I've been sitting with her reading with my finger under the words. I've also been helping her a little with her penmanship because I think for Juliana, she has difficulty concentrating on the motor skills and the outcome together.
However, she is a terrific artist! Her ideas and abilities are really intriguing!
Juliana is also a tall girl. I'm 5'4" and she's up to my shoulders...as is her older sister, Isabella. So, it's frustrating when children look like they're 9 or 10 but certainly don't "perform" in that way....I have a hard time with certain family members who don't question past the aspect of performing instead of learning along the way and have bought into the idea that everyone learns the same....
Does that make sense?
Thanks for listening,
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Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
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cathhomeschool
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ladybugs wrote:
I have a hard time with certain family members who don't question past the aspect of performing instead of learning along the way and have bought into the idea that everyone learns the same....
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My MIL was very much against homeschooling for a variety of reasons, among which was that Zachary (younger) would "hold Nicholas back." Well, it has turned out that Nicholas loves to read, devours books on his own and reads aloud to Zachary, but he is not strong in math. Until recently, he and Zachary worked on math together because Zachary, though a slow reader, really "gets" math. Nicholas was never held back, and his impromptu narrations of great books motivated Zachary to try to read. Thankfully, my MIL couldn't have been more wrong, which she now realizes. 
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Willa
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I have one of these "different" types of kids too. Actually, I have two, but one's condition is explainable by medical circumstances and falls right into the category of "special needs".
The other one has always marched to a different drummer, but it's hard to know how much is just his unique personality and how much might be something else. I'm still trying to discern that.
Sometimes I worry that homeschooling might lead me to "enable" some weaknesses in my kids and it IS something I have to be careful of, but I also see that homeschooling lets us naturally build on strengths so that learning "issues" can be resolved or minimized over time.
I do believe that natural Charlotte Mason type learning methods help children integrate their strengths and weaknesses better than more "schooly" type situations. But it's hard to convince the relatives, of course
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Feb 15 2005 at 8:48pm | IP Logged
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Bridget wrote:
Luckily, he had
enough sense to marry a sensible Dutch woman. |
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That's funny, Bridget! Thanks for the laugh 
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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elizfoss wrote:
Here's my question: what's normal?
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I find it very interesting, reassuring, and normalizing to hear story after story of the Late Bloomer. My 9yo son is a late bloomer and one of the most awesome people I know. He was fast to walk (skipped crawling and walked at 9 months) and slow to talk (who needed to talk when your smile lit up the room and you loved the whole world and the world loved you?) He is the most hard-working of my children, the least prideful, and the naturally happiest. He is an excellent athlete with a great sense of humor. He is smart, curious, interested...so...why can't he read "at grade level?"
I don't know. I have some hunches. He may have missed a development stage when he skipped crawling (which strengthens neurological pathways between the left and right side of the body.) We may not have hit upon the right "mix" of reading helps for him. All I do know is that God answers our prayers along the way.
Back in October, I took Aiden to an eye specialist. This doctor ended up being an angel. When his testing was over he said, "I have some good news and some bad news. The good is that his eyes are fine. The bad news is that his eyes are fine  ." From there he asked if I would mind if he showed me something. He showed me a form of choral reading to try with Aiden. We did an intensive one month experiment using this new form. We saw immediate improvement in Aiden's reading. The good news is that he continues to show improvement. I'll write about the specifics when I can write carefully and thoughtfully about it.
I think that there are just too many homes educating families who have a Late Bloomer to NOT consider this within the realm of normal. Some more questions...how do we keep our Late Bloomers spirits in tact while they are patiently waiting to bloom? How do we help mom and dad to be patient with and humble before all the uncertainty? When do we need outside expertise and when to we need to simply wait?
More questions than answer...
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Chari
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I DO have late bloomers here......and not enough time to post.....but,
I have a picture book to recommend , of course!
It is called "Leo the late bloomer" / Pictures by Jose Aruego and Author: Kraus, Robert
Praying for all of our Late Bloomers!
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Chari...Take Up & Read
Dh Marty 27yrs...3 lovely maidens: Anne 24, Sarah 20 & Maddelyn 17 and 3 chivalrous sons: Matthew 22, Garrett 16 & Malachy 11
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Sara Dina
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Hi,
I haven't seen any CCM posts all day, and so I'm not sure, but I think that this message board is replacing the list.?.. I sent a post to the CCM list today addressed to MacBeth, and as it applies to this topic, I will paste it below. I'm still getting used to posting on a message board, so thanks in advance for your patience!
Hi MacBeth,
I have read several of your posts over the years, no more than several, and I have found your ideas and philosophy of education has been very helpful in
working with my children, especially my more challenging ones. Would you write a post or two... sharing how you approach the following: reading, grammar
and spelling, handwriting, and history? I know this is asking alot! (Is there a graphic on the keyboard for pleading eyes and ingratiating smile?...)
JMJ,
Sara
JMJ,
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Sara (In VA)
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Willa
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Angie Mc wrote:
I think that there are just too many homes educating families who have a Late Bloomer to NOT consider this within the realm of normal. Some more questions...how do we keep our Late Bloomers spirits in tact while they are patiently waiting to bloom? How do we help mom and dad to be patient with and humble before all the uncertainty? When do we need outside expertise and when to we need to simply wait?
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I agree that there are a lot of Late Bloomers out there. I read a study once to the effect that the natural range for children learning to read is between age 3 and 11. I will try to find it online and link to it. The article went on to say that for a child who reads at nine or later, it is not much of a problem in most homeschools. There are audio tapes, there is reading aloud, there isn't the pressure to be "normal" ie reading at age 6.
In a school, a child who isn't really ready to read until 8 or older is in a less favorable situation. He usually ends up getting "tracked" and put in special classes, which of course to a child means "dumb" and "different". I don't think the benefit of all the resources usually outweighs the burden of the remediation, and those kids tend more to fall behind further and further (if I remember the study rightly)
My youngest reader was five (a girl of course) and one of my more recent readers was stumbling through easy readers until about 9 when he jumped almost overnight to Redwall. Once the kid IS reading I don't see a measurable difference between the quantity OR quality of what they read. Between my early and late readers, I mean.
There ARE kids who have real learning disabilities I suppose but not all late readers have learning disabilities, is what I'm trying to say... or perhaps they do have small ones and compensate for them themselves, which IMO is better than therapy.
With my late reader, I used to read aloud to him ALL the time, I kept him mostly out of situations where he had to compare his reading level with that of others, and I observed him to see if I could notice something else that might be a clue to his lateness in reading... vision check, for example!
Outside expertise can be helpful, but usually in a sense of "putting two heads together" and one is a trained head (hmm I couldn't find a "trained head" emoticon). Aidan's therapists for example have been good for him, but mostly in the sense that I learn from them and then can help him better. But still, the actual improvement always comes from the child, if you see what I mean.
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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MEBarrett
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Quote:
| Here's my question: what's normal? Seriously. Christian will do what Christian will do when Christian is ready to do it. |
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Same with Ryan. He has been diagnosed with autism, specifically PDD/NOS, OCD and SID (how's that for a $64 diagnosis) but he lacks some of the major characteristics of all of these disorders. He is sociable and loves people but he is not social the way 9 year old boys are. He was non-verbal until 3 1/2 and now speaks well but definitely not at his age level. He has a very hard time assimilating new vocabulary into his speaking and writing. It's nearly impossible but when he does learn something new, that's it - it's there forever.
He reads at a seventh grade level according to the reading specialist I consulted with a few months ago, but he has no comprehension of what he reads. He can do simple math but division has completely confused and frustrated him. I had to abandon it at least for a while.
Quote:
I can't imagine him driving at sixteen. There's no way he'll be ready to leave home at eighteen.
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Ryan is clssified by the state as developmentally disabled. He will never be able to obtain a drivers license here, which is fine because he does not have the impulse control necessary to drive. I often fear he will never fit in anywhere. The Franciscan Friars of the Renewal are his dearest friends and they assure me that he will always be welcome with them. He grasp of theology and his love of God and the Catholic Church belies his comprehension problems in other areas.
He is a puzzle, but we are trying to put the pieces together in the best way we know how.
Has he been diagnosed correctly? Maybe, within the parameters that are available to his nuerologist but it does not take into account Ryan, the person. Ryan, the child of God. Ryan and his beautiful soul. These are the things that matter. So as far as I am concerned they can stick as many initials as they want on his chart. I will try the therapies and meds they recommend but the journey we take here at home is the one that utlimately matters. The one that prepares him not only for life beyond this house, but the life hereafter.
Sorry for the ramble.
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Mary Ellen
Mom to seven beautiful kids
Tales from the Bonny Blue House
O Night Divine
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momtomany
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This thread is so comforting to me! I have a special needs guy who doesn't really fit into any mold either. Just reading all your experiences is so helpful to me. I guess that I just need to relax and enjoy the journey with him.
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Mary Ann in PA
wife to MIchael, mom to Elizabeth, Becca, Tim, Peter, Andrew, Sarah, Matthew, John, Leah and Joseph
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momtomany
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Angie Mc wrote:
My 9yo son is a late bloomer and one of the most awesome people I know. He is the most hard-working of my children, the least prideful, and the naturally happiest. He is an excellent athlete with a great sense of humor. He is smart, curious, interested... |
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I can vouch for that!!! I miss him visiting my house back in PA. Aidan's a great guy!!
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Mary Ann in PA
wife to MIchael, mom to Elizabeth, Becca, Tim, Peter, Andrew, Sarah, Matthew, John, Leah and Joseph
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momtomany
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MEBarrett wrote:
[QUOTE]
The Franciscan Friars of the Renewal are his dearest friends and they assure me that he will always be welcome with them. He grasp of theology and his love of God and the Catholic Church belies his comprehension problems in other areas.
.....does not take into account Ryan, the person. Ryan, the child of God. Ryan and his beautiful soul. These are the things that matter.
Sorry for the ramble.
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How wonderful that Ryan has that great relationship with the Franciscan Friars. There are many saints that we considered not quite smart enough but look at the great things they have accomplished for God!! St John Vianney comes to mind right away and I know that there are many others.
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Mary Ann in PA
wife to MIchael, mom to Elizabeth, Becca, Tim, Peter, Andrew, Sarah, Matthew, John, Leah and Joseph
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Late Bloomers
