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tovlo4801
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Karen commented on another thread about saying no to volunteer things.
Karen E. wrote:
I say "no" to all the little stuff, too ... exactly because it does nickel and dime your time away. I can't afford to lose that time. It gets easier to say no with practice.  Come up with a line: "I'm sorry, but I promised myself that for the sake of our homeschool, I wouldn't say yes to anything right now, even something that simple."
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I thought it would be fun to get a list going of everyone's go to phrase for saying no to things. I need a good list to draw from. 
I'm also curious on a more philisophical level what the thoughts are about saying no to everything. I struggle with this all the time. What about stewardship? How do you make sense of that in terms of needing time for your family, but a parish (or any other volunteer run organization) needing volunteers to function?
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amiefriedl
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Well, there is the thing about gaining the whole world and losing your (or your children's) soul. St. Paul, right?
I figure volunteering a whole bunch is for when my kids are grown. Not that I don't do some volunteering, but lots more no than yes now. My constant sense of being an inadequit parent helps me to say no.
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mary
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I always say I'll have to check my schedule - which is code for check with the dh. I tend to over-extend and he is more realistic about our time.
we volunteer for engaged encounter and my dh coaches the kids' team.
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Courtney
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I've learned (the hard way)  to say, "Give me 24 hours and I'll get back with you." It's too easy for me to say yes on the spot. Most people can wait 24 hrs for an answer. That allows me to really give it serious consideration as to whether or not it's something I can do. I've also learned to consult my dh about things as well. I forget sometimes that what I take on affects the whole family.
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Becky Parker
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This year I decided before school started that I was going to say No more often. I really feel more peaceful and our days are much more productive when we aren't running here and there. My kids even say things like "I love the days when we don't have to go anywhere". I came to this decision when I realized that my children are my "ministry" or "apostolate" for now. "To every thing there is a season" and my thing for this season of my life is being a mom. That said, it is still hard to say No, especially to friends. I tried to curb some of it by telling my friends at the start of the year that I was going to be really choosy about what we get involved in. I wanted them to understand that it was not them that we were avoiding but all the "busy-ness". So far I've stepped down from the leadership position in our Right to Life group and I've even declined a field trip because it really had nothing to do with what we are currently studying. It has actually been quite freeing, because instead of feeling guilty, I realize that I am taking care of the most important thing I have to take care of right now!
Becky
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mumofsix
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I also say "no" to most things beyond my family responsibilities at the moment (I have six children). I have to be fairly ruthless, otherwise I let my children down. The idea of postponing a decision is a good one, i.e. "give me a couple of days to think about that and I'll get back to you". It gives you time to talk to dh and really assess where this new responsibility might or might not fit into your life. Don't be afraid to say "no" after the fact though. "I'm so sorry but this responsibility is eating away time my children desperately need and I am afraid I cannot continue for the present, though I hope to return to it when they are a little older".
"Familiaris Consortio" is a wonderful encyclical on the family. You can read it in little chunks over a long period. It will convince you forever that your mission as a wife and mother dwarfs everything else in the eye of eternity.
Jane.
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Laura
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While the children are young we volunteer for only the things that they are directly involved in. There will be plenty of time to volunteer for all those other things when they are grown.
ie...If Zach plays baseball, then Ken volunteers to coach.
-If the children are in Catechism, then Shayna volunteers to help as an aid.
-The older kids volunteer at nursing homes.
Notice how I don't volunteer....I always seem to have a nursing baby and so I encourage my family to do the volunteering and I stick to caring for my family until a different season of my life where my arms will be empty  and I will have lots of time to volunteer to keep my mind off of that fact.
I would guess that the right age for that would be when all the kids are independent...lets say when they are all driving.
Jane, thanks for the recommended reading....I have been meaning to take a look at that encyclical for some time.
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Laura
wife to Ken and mom to 8 blessings with #9 due July 26,2009
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Elizabeth
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I've taken the same approach as Jane. If it can't be done from home, and when my children are asleep, I don't do it. I can't. For a very long time, that "no" has also included anything that meets in the evenings or on weekends. This has excluded me from any number of home demonstration parties, from Regnum Christi and its retreats and encounters, from homeschool support group meetings in the neighborhood. Part of my reasoning is that I have many children to get to bed and if I'm not here to do it, frankly, it doesn't get done.If I don't do the evening routine, the next day is trashed. I see this as a reality of a large family that might not hold true for a smaller one. Also, a huge chunk of our read-aloud time (legitimate school time) is in the evening and if I miss it once or twice a week, it does matter. Finally, my husband needs me home when he's home (during the week) and I need to be home when he's not (on the weekends). This "no" is not a popular one, nor do people understand it. But it's very simple. I don't have to decide for everything that comes my way. It's just a blanket "No, I'm sorry; I can't be away from my family in the evening or on weekends." Very few people understand or support it, but you can always find someone here who gets it .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Mary G
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I"m not too bad on the "no" part , especially if someone calls or emails me as I can react with less worry about what they're going to think .
However, I did fuss at my dh on Sunday because we didn't stop by the Ministry Fair at Church -- "you don't have time for any more ministries, remember?" sayeth my dh  ! I guess old habits die hard
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tovlo4801
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Elizabeth wrote:
| This "no" is not a popular one, nor do people understand it. But it's very simple. I don't have to decide for everything that comes my way. It's just a blanket "No, I'm sorry; I can't be away from my family in the evening or on weekends." Very few people understand or support it, but you can always find someone here who gets it . |
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Thanks for saying this. For some reason it helps for the truth that no one is going to understand and support the no's to be stated.
I guess I always want to please people. I want to figure out what the right thing to do is and do it. I look to other people to figure out that right thing. The general message where I live is that everyone needs to pitch in if things are going to run. There is so much pressure to give. It's easier to say no to the big things, but all those little things are harder. "Really, you can't make time one Saturday afternoon for two hours?" "Really, you can't just make a few phone calls?" "Really, you can't..."
There are some really good arguments for being involved. I can't quite get around them yet to be honest, which is why I probably say yes more frequently than I should. As a new convert, I was encouraged to become involved in our parish. I am introverted and it was a HUGE effort for me to put myself out there. I reaped the rewards from it though. My husband and I quickly became established in our community and the support to our faith has been immense. I guess I see the argument in terms of tithing. If your money is tight, you should tithe something anyway. In giving you receive so much more. I do see the rewards that are reaped in volunteering. Yet, it's where to draw the line. Hmmmm...
Keep giving me these great reasons and ways to say no. If I get enough of that here, it might be enough to combat the guilt I'll be battling as my priest preaches being involved.
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Elizabeth
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The tithing analogy is a great one. Here is my thought on that: If money is tight, do you rob your children of what they need to survive in order to give it away? I got very sucked into giving and giving to the parish last year. And, though I didn't recognize it, I was tearing my house down with my own hands. I don't mean the mess in the house (though there was that), I mean the people. Slowly, I was lured from my primary vocation to a "ministry" that I ultimately allowed to rob my husband and children. We're not supposed to feed our children snakes while we give away the fish...
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Laura
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Good analogy Elizabeth.
I have a friend right now from Mississippi who sees the great need out there since Hurricane Katrina. She is very very missionary minded and has a huge heart so she volunteered at the shelters. She is very concerned about the welfare of all even though her own house is like Jennifer's from our list.
Well, when she told me she was going into the "war zone" with her dh my heart immediately ached for her children who were being left behind in Texas.
They need their mom right now for comfort and support. They have been uprooted from their home. They are going to strange schools and churches.
THEY ARE HER MISSION!
Am I right?
Is she right?
I'm not sure, but as for me I would stay home (whereever home may be at that time) with my children. There are others who can volunteer. Elizabeth gave a beautiful example the other day of a dear friend and Godfather to one of her children who volunteered to go to Iraq(?) because he is single and he knew that if he didn't then possibly a married man with children would have to take his place....
That is correct thinking.
I am telling you Richelle....there is a time and a season unto everything!
Now that it my own opinion. I am sure there would be strong arguments from many in the other direction, but not too many on this forum!
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Laura
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mumofsix
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Richelle, you need an epiphany moment.
Here's mine. A well-known religious community of impeccable orthodox credentials (with both clerical and lay branches) founded in the U.S. came here to the U.K. a few years ago. Relatively new to homeschooling, with a consequent new zeal for the church, I was easily persuaded to help them set up a conference here. I joined the organising committee and discovered first hand that American ways are different. The priest chairman made it clear that he wanted no dead weight on the committee, no ideas people who were chiefly good at telling others what to do. No, he wanted doers.
To cut a long story short, I was asked to telephone 500 priests. I had a new baby plus four others at home. For a few days I basically ignored them while telephoning priests and ticking them off my very long list. I vividly recall sitting beside the swimming pool while my children had their lessons, trying to ignore my baby while ticking names off the list. A rather stout little girl did a belly flop off the side of the pool and drenched the list in a tidal wave of warm chlorine. Suddenly, I saw it. My children were not being educated. My baby was receiving good physical care but I was not playing with him and talking to him as I longed to do and as he needed me to do. The house was a mess to the extent that I didn't want to go home and it stole all my peace.
I went home, telephoned my contact in the organisation and told him that I couldn't help any more as my baby needed me and that my older children needed me as a full-time educator. He was disappointed but heard the edge in my voice and didn't push it.
Beware clericalism! There is a tremendous amount of it about and it is one of the bad fruits of the confusion arising from Vatican II. (Vatican II is wonderful, don't misunderstand me, but there is always a period of confusion following major church councils.) Good priests can sometimes be the absolute worst when it comes to misunderstanding the lay vocation. We are NOT called to be priests or religious but to be mothers and wives and therein lies our route to holiness. Anything that detracts from this is not God's will for us.
"Familiaris Consortio" explains this well. In this encyclical John Paul II gave the green light to families to form associations. We have one such association in England. To an important extent only other families really understand your vocation, and you must beware of anyone, priests and religious included, who tell you that you must do such and such, if that lies outside your immediate vocation. Yes you must work for the church: your work is to form two members of the church militant and co-operate in ensuring their eternal salvation. NOTHING even begins to compare with this.
When I got my deluge at the swimming baths, I actually felt angry at what I had been asked to do, as I felt my good will as a loyal Catholic had been presumed upon and used, and my children's welfare ignored as of no importance. That anger serves me well, and is part of my protective mother bear armour. The only organisation I work for now is the aforementioned family association, and its president regularly warns me, "Always put your family first and never do anything that will take you away from your duty to them, even if I ask you to"! I follow his advice.
Jane.
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Elizabeth
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Yep. That's it precisely. Well said, Jane  .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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tovlo4801
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mumofsix wrote:
| Yes you must work for the church: your work is to form two members of the church militant and co-operate in ensuring their eternal salvation. NOTHING even begins to compare with this. |
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Very good point! I go 'round with this every year or so it seems. Last year I struggled and shed a bunch of stuff because I realized how silly it would be to ask someone else to take care of my kids so I could go and take care of someone else's kids. I'm in the best position to raise my kids and no one else would be nearly as effective at it as I am. I also would not be nearly as effective at any volunteer task I might take on as I will be at raising my kids.
I kept telling myself back then that if they don't have enough volunteers for something to happen, then God didn't need it to happen. I was head of our parish welcome committe for years and stepped down a couple of years ago. No one stepped up. I was twisted with guilt, but didn't give in. The church went without a welcome committee for two years. Guess what? The church didn't fall down. This summer a new young couple from the parish took the job on. I'm thinking about the things that I've allowed to crawl on my plate since then and I think I've let in a lot of things that are not of benefit to that primary goal. They are things that will not fall apart if I back off a bit.
Thanks for all the advice and I'm going put "Familiaris Consortio" next on my reading list.
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Natalia
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I have noticed, and I am not saying that this is true for everbody, that when I want to volunteer for something sometimes is a) I am having a hard time valueing my vocation as a mother- working outside the house even if it is at the church seem to have more appeal at times, more glamour; b) I am in need of some appreaciation, I need somebody to see that I can do something well after all my talents are wasted changing diapers, cleaning and cooking.
I especially felt this way in the earlier years when I was having a hard time acepting my vocation as a wife and mother. As my sense of vocation grew firmer saying no became easier.
Natalia
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Elizabeth
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Natalia,
May I add one to your list?
C.) Wanting community:
someone to chat with, to identify with, to "belong" with.
Unfortunately, we often belong, even to seemingly worthwhile things, to the detriment of the perfect community--our families.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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tovlo4801
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Elizabeth wrote:
Natalia,
May I add one to your list?
C.) Wanting community:
someone to chat with, to identify with, to "belong" with.
Unfortunately, we often belong, even to seemingly worthwhile things, to the detriment of the perfect community--our families. |
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Elizabeth,
I think you just summed up the selfish part of my struggle. Of course Natalia is also right deep down that I'm failing to value my role, but my selfish reason is that I want to belong and if I want to receive something from the community then I need to contribute something.
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KC in TX
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Thank you to all for finally making me feel right in my decision not to volunteer for anything. I always felt so guilty for not being involved because of my children. Now, I don't. You all have lifted such a huge weight off my shoulders. I surely do feel lighter.
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Michaela ('01)
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The Cabbage Patch
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teachingmyown
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Jane,
Your experience is not foreign to me. I have seen this happen and felt the pressure to remove myself from my family to further the work of the Church. I don't necessarily think that it is the lay organizations themselves, but more likely certain leaders and members who push this sort of "apostalate".
I am a member of a lay movement. Within this movement, I have met people that have asked ridiculous things of me and my team members. Most of us have large families, homeschool and live a considerable distance from the communties main center. The problem is that we are not being seen for who we are and valued for the contribution we are making.
Instead, we are thrust into a cookie-cutter mold that the older, more affluent women with fewer children and less distance to travel fit more easily into. This has caused stress between my husband an me as I am trying to live up to my calling as an apostle as it is presented to me and he wants me home where I belong.
I watch families where the whole family seems involved, and I am amazed and wonder what I am missing. But for my husband and my children it is not the time for this involvement.
At the same time, there are wonderful people, priests and lay leaders, in the movement, who are adament about fulfilling my primary vocation first, then to give what time I can, in ways that make sense to my life. This may be making an extra meal for the priests once a month or hosting a Gospel Reflection once or twice a year. They understand where my priorities are and they support that.
So really, like anywhere in society, you will find the people who get it and those who don't. I think that we need to charitably educate those who push us by calmly explaining, repeatedly if needed, that we are already involved in the greatest apostolate.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: how do you say no?
