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MarilynW
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Do you think you have the right balance of time you spend online - email, blogs, forums etc?
I am really struggling with this - 3 different people have sent me the blog post (that is also on Elizabeth's blog) Paradise Lost - I am beginning to wonder if this is a sign 
Ruth and I have been discussing this - and wondering.
Of course this is after I finally joined the blogsphere and now I am questioning the whole thing.
I get kind of tearful though thinking about not being on these forums - I have so many "friends" (can you tell I do not get out much  )- and I have learned so much from so many of you. And the prayers have been such a support.
But how much time is too much - and how to be self-controlled enough to resist all the good online.
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Marilyn
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JodieLyn
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I think that the amount of time that can be spent is very individual.
You've got several things to look at.
Are you so focused that you can't stop to talk to a child or cuddle a child or get up and go and do something when you're online?
Where is your computer setup? Are you removing yourself from the family to go be with the computer in another room? or do you have the computer set up in the main rooms where you're present and available to the family?
What else is using up your time? Are you on the computer AND focused on the TV AND focused on reading.. so the computer adds to the time your focus is elsewhere.. or is it all one conglomeration of time and you shift the same amount of time around between them.
I know lots of people who'll say if you're on for much time at all that you're not doing what you should be doing.. well.. hey.. I can not do what I'm supposed to be doing in front of the tv, or with a book in hand, or whatever.. it's not the *computer* that's the problem.. the problem is that I'm not doing what I should be.. but the flip side is that some people are fast readers and will do something at the computer then go and do somethign else and then check in on the computer etc etc. While being available to their families.. so..
What does your dh think of the time spent? How do the kids act around you when you're on the computer. Are they off busy on their own or are they stuck in front of the tv or creating more havoc than reasonable?
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Cay Gibson
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How much time is too much? Only you can decide, dear, and I can only write from my personal experience and my current thoughts.
I've also read this post mentioned on three different blogs today and it worried me. It's an excellent post, btw, but it still worried me.
I read it and printed it out and asked myself why it bothered me. There are any # of reasons I can list but a couple are:
(1) Did it speak to me personally, too close to home? If it speaks the truth than that would bother me, wouldn't it?
(2) if anyone else follows what this post calls us to do, I stand to lose lots of great friends, inspiration and mentors. That saddens me.
I was able to quickly disregard (1). I have found, in my own way, a peace with my time spent online. In this quote "When they (your children) approach the computer turn your chair around and look them in the eye..." I always do. Always. And if I have to get up to fix toast or a drink or go see a newly finished project, I do that too. I am always available for my children and they know it. A week does no go by that we aren't cooking in the kitchen or doing a craft in the sitting room. School work gets done too.
And I certainly don't mean to sound I'm better or holier than those who struggle with this. I'm not. I'm working in holiness every day. I often have to push my chair away from the screen. But that's just my plain laziness wanting to kick in. Are there days I'm on the computer too much? Yes. But last night I was starting to feel down (we have the flu this week) and my oldest said, "Mom, you need to slow down a little and rest. You never sit long enough to rest."
So, evidently, my children don't view the computer as a major waste of my time. Often one or two are sitting on my chair arms and reading over my shoulder. We laugh and enjoy other blogs and jokes on the computer. We research together. I'm constantly having to hop up and down to give them access to the computer.
Concerning where my computer is located. It's too central an area. I would love an office but I don't have one. I would love to have "my space" but God doesn't want me to. My children are all around me and the interruptions are numerous. But this is our life and I love it and find peace in the "joyful" noise that's around me.
My blog is first, and foremost, a scrapbooking of my family and our life and our faith...and books.  I don't write about politics or superstars or current events. I write about what I care about.
I know that we can all justify anything we want to justify but I know within myself that I don't watch TV and I don't talk on the phone. If the Internet is the only technology I use then that's okay...in my home.
On one hand we praise the Internet. On the other we blame it for our problems.
People can say that all these blog relationships aren't "real" but I happen to believe otherwise. I know each one of you is very real and bears a good heart in what you write and share. I've had to ask myself lately if I contribute too much "noise" within the Internet. I guess each one of you are asking yourself the same thing.
But together, in this crazy world of sin and vice, we all create a very joyful, holy, spiritual noise. A noise that is beautiful. Seeing that we are still such a small part of the Internet as a whole gives us a very important place and calling on this worldwide web that is valuable and good.
Don't ever feel guilty or bad about sharing your faith and the goodness of your family life with the world at large. Just makes sure the life you write about isn't a false one. Be realistic.
I figure as long as I'm making "Joyful Noise" on my blog than I'll go forward and hope it blesses others. And even if no one else reads it I am able to look back and laugh about things my children did or said, be grateful for all the educational things we did even when I thought we were slacking, etc.
I would never have created such a scrapbook of our family/homeschool without this blogging phenomena and I'm grateful for it.
And I'm grateful for each and everyone of you who shares a part of herself.
Dd wants me to put a face, so here's a couple.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
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stefoodie
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I'm with Cay here. I've gone back and forth with this, and have reached a happy medium, I think.
Yes, you could spend too much time online -- I tried problogging to help out with finances, but it became such a stressor for our whole family that there was no question it had to be given up). I've now gone back to my original reason for blogging -- to keep track of what we do, more like a journal for our family to look back on, AND to document things that I want my children to know one day when I'm gone, e.g., old songs that my Papa sings, etc.
You have to discern for yourself what works for you and family. I find that when I try to do things for anyone else other than God or family that's when I fall into traps so easily. Now that I'm blogging again for the right reasons there is a peace that comes with it. E-mail and the forum I've also set aside some time each day such that it doesn't interfere with the important stuff, like the kids!
There is still the occasional temptation to write "for an audience", but I find that if I keep up with my prayer and Scripture time that I'm able to keep my focus on *first things* -- not all the time, but for the most part -- I'm still struggling like other people. There is also, like Cay said, the sharing of the faith. It can almost be a ministry when done with the right intentions. Many women here have moved other people to greater faith through their posts/blogs -- I know because they've moved me! I hope I'm doing the same for others, even if my blog posts aren't directed to them specifically.
I do take breaks regularly, from the forum, from e-mail, from blogging, when I notice that online time is starting to become unreasonable.
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stef
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Martha in VA
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stefoodie wrote:
There is also, like Cay said, the sharing of the faith. It can almost be a ministry when done with the right intentions. Many women here have moved other people to greater faith through their posts/blogs -- I know because they've moved me! I hope I'm doing the same for others, even if my blog posts aren't directed to them specifically.
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I want to affirm what Stefoodie wrote above. Eighteen months ago, as the Holy Spirit was prompting me to take a long, hard, honest look at Catholicism, I started snooping around on the internet. I searched "catholic homeschooling", "catholic education at home" and other such terms. Elizabeth's name kept popping up on my screen and via a trail that I don't exactly remember, I ended up here. I mostly lurked here but took time to visit many of your blogs often. I was AWED by what I "saw"! Your faith lived out in your families was beautiful, moving, and contagious. I thirsted for what I was seeing. Our Lord used 4Real blogs powerfully and lovingly as He led me into His Church.
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hmbress
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That certainly was a thought-provoking post. I recently took a two-month hiatus from blogging, partly for practical reasons (on vacation out of state), partly for emotional (had just made an extremely difficult decision not to proceed with an adoption and wasn't ready to talk about it), but also for spiritual reasons.
I had found myself getting far too caught up in looking at stats and checking multiple times a day to see if anyone had commented. It was obsessive and vain, in that I needed other people to think highly of me in order to feel good about myself. At the same time, certain positive comments (online and otherwise) along the lines of "wow, you are so organized/put-together/faith-filled/etc." really bothered me, because I knew that the picture of me portrayed on the blog was only a tiny part of the real picture, and only the best, most carefully chosen part. It wasn't completely real. (I suspect that I am not the only new blogger who has experienced these things!).
So, I took a break, not just from blogging, but also from reading forums and the many yahoogroups I had been subscribed to. And now that I'm blogging again (on a more limited basis), I find I have a much more balanced approach. Now when I post something I think about whether it's to serve others or myself in a useful way, or is it an attempt to boost my ego or self-image? I'm trying to be more real about the stuff I struggle with as well as sharing what I think I do well so that others can benefit.
And unsubscribing from yahoogroups and taking a break from forums was freeing in that I realized that I have enough wonderful ideas and resources for the time being. I can logon when I have a real need to research something, but I no longer need to try to imitate every single great thing some other mom is doing. I'm just getting started with our home educating adventure, and I have plenty of time to try lots of things over the years, I do not need to do it all.
Anyways, back to the original blog post that inspired this thread. It saddens me that someone would give up blogging completely because it seems so all-or-nothing, which for me would play right into my perfectionism (if I can't do something perfectly I shouldn't do it at all). We are called to be in the world, but not of the world, which for me means learning how to use things in a way that serves me rather than letting those things enslave me in any way. If blogging is serving me (and hopefully others) and helping me to live my vocation, then rather than give it up completely when I find I have mixed motives, or that I am developing a disordered attachment, then fasting for a time is my remedy.
Spending too much time online isn't the problem ... it's just a symptom of the real problem. If I just give up the computer but don't address the real problem I will just end up becoming obsessive or overly attached to some other thing. Hope that makes sense ...
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Heather Rose (ds13, ds10)
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LisaR
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I always give up computer for Lent, except "business" like sceduling the local co-op, paying a bill, etc. I realize that my children are SO much happier , and I feel so much more productive in the home. that being said, I end up going back online Easter Sunday! 
I read once that our children see us in front of a screen and it makes no difference as to whether it is a soap opera on a TV screen , or a "Great Catholic blog" on the computer. I really was convicted by that. I do recognize that I have the tendency that everyone might not have, to "get sucked in" (really by my own choice) to great discussions about the Faith, homeschooling, parenting, recipes, etc.
I also see that sometimes being involved in online communities, blogs, chats, etc , I am not really quite so present to the IRL communities that I could be.
I've spoken with many online who say they feel like many people IRL don't "get them" or "get it" the way their cyber friends do.
More and more I am feeling convicted myself that I need to reach out IRL and expand my energies in this way. it might be true that I don't get the support, or everything else that I might get from all of these wonderful, inspiring blogs,Forums, yahoo groups, etc.
BUT I want my kids to have a memory of me being Mary (ok, and Martha, a bit :) ) IRL, and to convey that I am "witnessing" or "these are my friends" when they see me in fornt of the screen just doesn't convey that to their little minds and hearts.
I think when my kids were younger it was easier to devote computer time to only when they were asleep, but with one computer, and older kids who stay up late, one who rises early, and more legitimate needs that other family members have for the computer, I tend to check in at random times...
anyway, enough rambling from me. I'm checking out of here I guess for the entire Lent! (I usually let my self use media on Sunday, but since the boards are closed Sunday, well....)
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Lisa
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Becky Parker
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I have been thinking a lot about this topic. I could relate to all the posts above! I'm just wondering, do you think part of it could be an extraverts need for social contact? To be honest, even though I have good real life friends, I get lonely when it's just me and the kids all day! I don't see my friends but maybe once a week at the most and, since they are homeschooling, I don't usually like to call and bother them during the day. Here, or when I'm reading blogs, there is always someone having a conversation I can jump in on or read and think about...
Just some thoughts.
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Mary G
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Becky
I agree with you -- I think online fills a need that I have to commune with like-minded individuals to get their advice, comments, viewpoint on something. That's why I'm so active on 4real.
As far as blogging -- I don't care if no one ever reads my blog; I blog to keep myself "honest" and have a track record of what we're doing. My inlaws do check it to keep up with the kids, too.
As far as stopping during Lent -- I pull WAY BACK during Lent and Advent, to be with my kids more and as a sacrifice. I think we all have to approach this in our own way -- honestly and in prayer -- to determine if we're on too much or just enough to reap the benefits without the down side. We live in a computer-dominated age and to close our eyes to that is not a solution.
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MaryG
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Cay Gibson
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Becky Parker wrote:
Here, or when I'm reading blogs, there is always someone having a conversation I can jump in on or read and think about...
Just some thoughts. |
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I like this thought, Becky. Forums and blogs definitely allow us to use our thought process and expand our minds and there is nothing wrong with a hsing mother wanting to continue her education within the home. Nothing wrong at all.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
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Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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LisaR
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I hope people do not think I was being too harsh. I know that for me, personally, there is a direct corelation with how much time I spend online (forums, blogs, yahoo groups) and less time spent developing/cultivating IRL relationships. Maybe if I lived in a more rural, remote, or non Catholic area it would be different for me, and I would have a genuine need.
I know where to find support/encouragement/ideas for just about anything under the sun,(through these wonderful forums, etc) I totally
understand that people blog for their own personal journaling.
I just really could relate to Cindy's Paradise Lost post. It is the "good" that can bog me down.
There is good right in my own neighborhood, and right in my own Church (1/2 mile away perpetual adoration!!) and maybe some of my "free time" needs to be spent in other ways.
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Lisa
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Cay Gibson
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Dear Lisa, I don't think you were harsh at all. And I really think Cindy's PL post was a marvelous piece. Cindy's post was about her journey and her decision. She's to be admired and commended and, if anything, her post has resurrected in each of us a desire to refocus on our homes and IRL relationships. Her post is an important one and a reawakening in many ways.
I wrote primarily so that we don't fall victim to the element of guilt found in one person's decision-making. We shouldn't begin to think that each of us are "Pandora" wanting to open the box. I don't think we should individually burden ourselves that we are negligent or misfocused just because we blog and/or interact online.
We don't need to excuse our online interactions. They have been priceless to me. We need to refocus on our everyday living.
What are our duties at home and in our real world and do we carry them out to the best of our ability.
A Mother's Examination of Conscience at Nightfall:
Are the dishes done?
Are the clothes washed?
Is supper cooked?
Is shopping accomplished?
Are bills paid?
Is schoolwork done (or getting done)?
Have you read to your child today?
Are your children happy?
Did you get an individual word in with each child today?
Have you spent meaningful time with your husband today (even if it means just an hour at night)?
Have you checked in on grandparents and elderly aunts/uncles?
Is the house picked up?
These are some of the things that give me piece of mind. What about you? Each mother will have to write her own. Perhaps my list isn't that eloquent but I'm writing in a hurry. We're headed to Lafayette this afternoon. What are the things you can mentally check off that gives you satisfaction and your home a level of peace so that you do not harbor guilt for the time you spend online with other like-minded women?
Some would say we need to quit blogging and participating online to focus on our famiies and go beyond the call of duty. I can, in part, agree with that. I also tend to be over-the-top realistic  and know that I give to my family as much as I am able as I suspect each of you do too. They know I am here for them and know that everything I do is with them in mind. We give to our family until it hurts. None of us have chosen to take the career path into the working world to escape our families. We have sacrificed solitude, private baths, coffee breaks, financial ease, and girlfriend commradary. Our children are literally on our laps, at our knees, and on our feet on a daily basis. They are our co-workers.
Look who's being harsh now. Quit being so harsh on yourself. Look at what you do do for your family. You are there for them everyday in a way that so many mothers are not.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
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Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Paula in MN
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| Quit being so harsh on yourself. Look at what you do do for your family. You are there for them everyday in a way that so many mothers are not. |
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Thanks Cay -- just what I needed to read!!!
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 Paula
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MarilynW
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Thanks to everyone for their opinions and ideas. I have blogged about this here: To Blog or not to Blog, 'tis the question
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Marilyn
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Mary G
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Marilyn,
That was a wonderful blog post -- one that really resonated with me in that I get (and hopefully, give) so much online that I think it makes me a better mom/homeschooling mom/wife. I, personally, have to watch getting envious of what others can do and what they show .... I also have to be VERY careful not to junk one thing and go with the latest trend in curriculum!
As I said earlier, I do cut back during liturgical periods -- Advent and Lent, most notably -- but I don't see the online time as a bad thing or a corrupting influence IF I WATCH MYSELF!
Blessings and hope your Lent 2008 is wonderful!
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MaryG
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stefoodie
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I just wanted to add one more bit to this discussion -- I find that when I'm starting to question my online activities -- am I spending too much time? Am I not with my kids enough? Am I not fulfilling my obligations as a wife? Am I not praying enough? -- usually it's because the answer to those questions is "maybe" or even a resounding "yes". It's time to step back.
I've come to see that this questioning of self is part of the graces that fall on us. It's the Lord calling us to greater holiness, because let's face it, no matter where we are in the "holiness continuum", we still have lots of room for improvement. And when we are given the grace to recognize our failings, then we can either pay attention and gather strength from it to perhaps deny ourselves a little bit more, or re-channel our efforts so that they're more directed towards giving glory to God. E.g., we may decide that we're going to continue blogging/posting/whatever, but that our posts will be more uplifting, helpful, thankful, etc.
Cay, I love all that you've said. Thank you.
Becky and Mary, the like-minded thing, so true. Though I'm beginning to meet people IRL (finally!) that are very much like the people here, and I am very grateful indeed.
Lisa, I don't think you're being harsh at all; we can't take things for granted. Cindy's post also touched a cord in me because I've been there many, many times.
I think that we also as a group tend to take things a lot more seriously than the "casual blogger" out there who doesn't care what blogging can do to them and their family. We act as our own checks and balances and that's one of the things I love so much about our "community" here.
Anyway, my last .02 before I sign off for the evening.
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stef
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Cay Gibson
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Yesterday evening this conversation stayed on my mind through 3 basketball games back-to-back.
After a week of being stranded in the house due to the flu, I was very observant of all the real life interaction: from sitting by my husband's side to visiting with various homeschool friends, holding a friend's baby, admiring another friend's new baby, bumping into an acquaintance on the hs circuit who I do not correspond with via phone, email or otherwise but who I do enjoy seeing and talking to on these rarte occasions, taking my youngest to the bathroom and finding my middle daughter and her friends giggling and telling secrets in front of the mirror, enjoying the contents of my youngest daughter's purse with the wee little lady who sat next to me, and discussing "tics" and Tourette's and "what did the doctor say" with my friends.
It's a very good and full life my family has down here in SW Louisiana.
Due to this conversation, I couldn't help but notice as I moved around this real life setting the cells of children playing on DS systems and the singular lady sitting next to her husband and reading a book.
Yesterday I would have said that DS gadgets were not appropriate at basketball games amongst hsed children. But there were quite a few there...hsers and DS gadgets. And I have to say that even these cliques were making quite a friendly connection comparing scores, high-5ing successful plays, exchanging ear pieces, discussing stategies, and sharing gadgets. No child was sitting alone, unsocialized, uninvited, unwelcome. No mom was sitting alone, unsocialized, uninvited, unwelcome...unless you count me after one of my friends left when her son's game was finished. Everyone else had moved to the other side of the gym and I was too lazy (ie: recovering from the flu) to want to move. I rather enjoyed the reflective view from my perch but then I'm a reflective sort. I told my dh I was quite happy to sit next to him. He went along with that for a while before telling me to go sit with my friends. Truth is, I was surrounded by commradary and it is a great place to be.
But so is this little world. And I would have equally been delighted to spend the day at Colleen's lovely home and known I could have connected the best of both worlds. And so I was not surprised to read this excellent summary by Colleen who I know IRL.
She sums it all up beautifully...excellently...awesomely. I could hear her saying this over the phone or in her kitchen over red beans and rice but then I wouldn't have it all down to copy and store. 
The children and I have a much-postponed and rescheduled dental check-up this morning (what a way to start Lent, huh?) then a full afternoon of Lenten discussion and prepping because we have not planned anything this past week. Too sick!  Then ashes when Daddy gets home from work.
Getting to pop in here and read your thoughts and discussions lifts me up, builds me up, and holds me more accountable. I was reminded yesterday of how many questions and concerns I had many years ago when I was first linked onto the Internet. If at the end of the day we can say we were a more patient mother, a more thoughtful person, a more equipped hser, a more attentive friend because of our online dealings, then we have not let Satan cross the threshold.
Through this discussion, I realized that my main concern is that in blaming "the Internet" for our woes and shortcoming, we are forgetting the "people" behind the "Internet".
I am not "the Internet". I am a person (your friend, I hope) who happenes to use "the Internet" as a medium. In saying that I blame my shortcoming and failing on "the Internet" is hypocritical. You are all here to help me. Again, Colleen's post says it better than I ever could. If I fail, it is my own failings. Not my husband's, my children's, or "the Internet". If, as Cindy found, it interferes too much with my call to holiness then it is time to turn it off. "It" has a button. My family does not. Pope JPII and Mother Angelica did not shy away from technology, they used it to serve them and God's people. They used "the Internet" to make a Joyful Noise. My little tamborine is a tiny instrument in the worldwide band, but I've always been partial to tamborines.
If you read all this, bless you. If you just scanned down to this ending and thought "My, she's a bag of wind this morning", then don't even try to go back and read it. I've been on a cold/flu medicine for over a week now. You can imagine how meditative I am.  Just click to Colleen's post: Together at the Foot of the Cross. It's really all you need to read today.
Blessings and tidings for a holy Lent! 
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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msclavel
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Cay as always, beautifully said. I was hoping and praying you were on the mend.
I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I am painfully shy, always have been. There are days when I even hesitate to post a reply, I get so wrapped up in myself. On the other hand, can I tell you the joy it gives me to refer to my "friend in Lousiana " or my friend in New York. or Florida or Minnesota or from wherever. This place, my blog,all of yours, make me come out of myself, which is very good for my soul and I can also say honestly, good for my family.
Yesterday I had to call someone I had never called before. If she reads this she knows who she is. It was very hard (and anyone who's shy knows exactly what I mean), but I knew because of this place I could, and I should. I knew from her blog that hers is a warm loving heart of a friend and I could trust the little bit of myself I put out there would be kept safe and furthermore be nurtured and encouraged.
Cay is right, the Internet is a thing, not a person. To the extent that I makes connections with real people in real ways is a true test of the effects of my online time. Sometimes that means sending hugs through cyberspace and sometimes it means I have to pick up the phone.
And naturally, vocation is first. But there to, it is a matter of attitude. I learned how to knit this winter. I love it, it relaxes me. I often knit sitting in bed with my dh when he watches TV. But sometimes, I know I have to put the knitting down because I know he wants my full attention, even just to watch something he enjoys. He never says anything, I can just tell. Knitting is a perfectly good thing! Except in that moment when it takes me from being fully present to my dh.
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Cay Gibson
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Waltzing Matilda addresses the blogging aspect. She and I share a similar cross so I found her post excellent Lenten fare: Welcome to My World...
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: How much time online?
