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Syncletica
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| Posted: Aug 21 2007 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
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from those who've been there/done that.
I've wanted to unschool for awhile, not sure exactly how to do it. I have to align math and L.A. with provincial standards with the school board I'm registered with right now.
I'm having problems with organizing my time. I have 4 children, the oldest is 6 1/2 and I'm due with the 5th in October. My goal was to get my eldest done saxon math 3 by the time the baby is born so we can have a nice break between then and New Year's. However, I got so downhearted with the math b/c it was taking me 2 hours just to get through the lesson with her b/c of all the interruptions. The baby was no longer having morning naps. I gave up on that in May sometime, and haven't really done much since. She's forgetting her facts.
I want to be able to spend more time reading to them, teaching them about the faith, etc. I also want her to practice her piano daily but that hasn't been happening. I would also like to practice my singing, but that never seems to be happening.
Chores we've been doing in the morning sometimes take all morning.
Let me give an example of my day(s):
6:30 wake up, do my exercising with my new dvd for about 50 min. Get ready for the day.
7:00 - 7:30 or so the children wake up. They get ready. Seems to take forever. We may try to do some chores before morning prayers/brkfst. Sometimes we pray a rosary before brkfst, sometimes after.
Morning prayers - brkfst - rosary
Chores - table chores;
Mon. laundry day; sweeping and mopping; bathrooms; clean glass (coffee/end tables, patio door, living rm window)
Tues. dusting; empty g'bge cans; clean doorknobs and switchplates; clean and organize kitchen drawer/cupboard
(Every other Tuesday is grocery shopping day)
Wed. vacuuming; clean glass; bathrooms
Thurs. dusting; spot clean floors; clean fronts of appliances;
Fri. - clean glass; bathrooms; clean kitchen cupboard doors
Fold/put away laundry as needed.
plus all the regular table chores. Sometimes, esp. Monday and Wednesday, chores take till noon.
Lunch time. Baby's nap and quiet time. I need my quiet time just to relax and perhaps get a much needed nap in. Especially when I'm pregnant.
Sometimes naps will end between 2-3. (During quiet time the children might look at books, colour; lately the 3 and 4 yr. olds have been napping.Making bedtime more difficult. Not that I want them to sleep. They just end up falling asleep b/c of the gloomy weather, the quiet, etc.)
The time between after quiet time and 4:00 might be spent with them playing outside, or laundry, or doing some activity, perhaps I need to make a couple phone calls, nothing set in stone.
4:00 - 6:00 - supper prep/eating/dishes/table chores
After supper - every other day is bath night;
I try to do 100 Lessons in Reading with my 4 year old. Last couple days I've been getting my 6 yr old to do some workbook lessons in math.
Perhaps some stories before bed, doesn't always end up happening.
Get ready for bed, night prayers.
8:00 bedtime. That's a hassle in itself. More water, this hurts, that hurts, go potty. Sometimes, when I decide enough is enough, they're going to lay there quietly, it is somewhat better. I usually have to stay in their room with them and tell them to close their eyes or whatever, and insist on it. They listen to Saint stories on cassette at bedtime.
I don't get much time for myself. All of the above is basically done by me alone. (As in husband doesn't do any. Chores are done by me and the children. Not complaining. Stating a fact. I hope that's okay.)I get frustrated at night when I might finally be able to rest and read or whatever and they don't do what they've been told.
I want more time to squeeze in learning, music, reading, training them properly, etc. (My 6 year old is the most inquisitive person I know. She has so many questions, yet I can never find the time to actually help her find the answers. Exercise used to be something I could never find time for, but now that I got my dvd, I just do it as soon as I get up, (make the sign of the cross and offer up the day, of course)in my pj's! (I can't believe doctors don't tell you that those hip and leg pains can be alleviated simply by doing some regular exercising.)
Does anyone see anything where I could improve?
TIA
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Aug 21 2007 at 11:48pm | IP Logged
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I am far from being an expert, but here are a few things I can offer up. First of all, you must have the cleanest house ever. I couldn't tell you the last time that the door knobs or switch plates were cleaned in our house, and we just scrubbed the cabinet doors (other than spot cleaning) for the first time in a year. I would say that you need to cut back on your chores. There's an old saying that goes "This house is clean enough to be healthy but dirty enough to be lived in." or something to that effect. Maybe you can reassess what really needs to be done on a weekly basis to keep the house tidy and then make a separate list for bi-weekly or monthly chores, like scrubbing down the cabinets.
When someone else asked a similar question about time management, someone on here made the wise suggestion to split the chores with absolutely basic ones (like getting groomed, dressed, and cleaning up breakfast) coming before school time and everything else coming after. You may just need to assess what your priorities are.
My other big suggestion would be to set up a new bedtime routine (which incorporates one picture book) with the kids and be more consistent about it. Limit requests before they can ask by taking them to the potty before bed and having water ready. Any other requests should be ignored (such as those phantom pains that only appear at bedtime). And you should not have to stay in there until they go to sleep past age four. If they share a bed/room, you may just have to set up rules about the level of noise or staying in bed and let them be.
You might see if you can space out baths to buy some more time. We don't get that much outside time, so my kids usually only need a bath about twice a week. We just do wipe downs with a washcloth in between. And I don't know about your television policy, but one hour of t.v. time a day for the little ones might give you some time to work with the six-year-old.
I wish you luck; and hope that some of my suggestions can help, even they just get you thinking about new ideas of your own. And I am sure that many of the wonderful and more experienced ladies on here will have more ideas.
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Syncletica
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| Posted: Aug 22 2007 at 8:37am | IP Logged
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Thanks Barbara!
Just for the record: my house is definitely NOT the cleanest. ;) It drives me absolutely bonkers with how cluttered and dirty things always seem to be. Mirrors always seem spotted. Sinks always have toothpaste or something. Things are always dusty. Seems like I'm always telling them to tidy up just for my own sanity. Cleaning the cupboard doors doesn't usually mean much. It's not a long drawn out process... just a quick wipe and they usually don't get off what should get off.
As for bedtime, as a general rule I do make sure they have water and go potty beforehand. I will have to make more of an effort to disregard further requests.
As regards TV, we don't have one, thank God. I know I said I watch a dvd for exercising....that gets watched on my laptop. TV and movies are basically a no-no here.
I'll also add we don't get much in the way of walks or outside time. I'd like more time for that. Just the thought of getting everyone ready to go outside is enough to make me want to stay inside though. Especially in winter. It takes 20 min. just to get outside clothes on!
Thanks again!
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Leonie
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| Posted: Aug 22 2007 at 6:06pm | IP Logged
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I'm with Barbara - I'd also lower the housekeeping standards a bit. When all mine were little ( and, yes, even know!  ) I found that working on clutter and quick wipe downs of floor/bathrooms/counters was enough. Everything just looked better if we had regular pick ups and wipe downs through the day ( usually pegged to meals and snack times). I often didn't get to the deep cleaning but things still looked okay and doing it in small managable chunks works better for me than having set days for chores.
I've always done laundry every day, for example...This little chunks method can be applied to homeschooling/unschooling, too - peg reading a picture book to lunch time, is one similar idea.
And I must say that, apart from my morning computer time ( which sometimes has to take place in the afternoon! lol), I count my workout/exercise time as my only other truly me time. Reminding yourself of how your workout time is your time and that you get to workout just about every day , can help .
Hope others chime in here!
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Syncletica
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| Posted: Aug 22 2007 at 8:44pm | IP Logged
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Oh, I do laundry basically every day as well. I do it as it's needed. It's just that Monday is my sheets and towels day, too. Perhaps I should also mention that bathrooms aren't exactly deep cleaning. I do the tubs, and they might not get done some weeks. But the mirrors, sinks, and toilets do need quick wipe downs. It's just that when I have them do it,(except for my bathroom) it does take a lot longer. Which I know they will speed up once they get better at it. Mind you, it usually takes longer, b/c they decide to play instead of get the job done. Drives me batty. Patience, patience. Oh, not to say they always do it. I might do them myself if it happens that way. (I don't make them do everything by themselves while I eat bonbons! Please don't think that! :) ) If they're doing one chore, I'll be doing a different chore, or dealing with whatever needs to be dealt with at that time. I know at Large Family Logistics, she has a similar method of doling out chores, and a specific day for a specific area. But maybe she didn't when she had only littles.
I realize I probably do need to set standards lower, but, my house almost always seems dirty even with the way I'm doing it now. It's nuts!
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Syncletica
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| Posted: Aug 22 2007 at 8:59pm | IP Logged
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I also wanted to add that my whole point in talking about schooling is that I don't know where to put them in anymore. Last schoolyear it was at 9:00, and that left chores for the afternoon. Maybe I'll have to go back to that. I just feel better when I know the house is somewhat tidy and clean. Something I may just have to tough out I guess. If anyone wants to share their routine, I'd be very appreciative. 
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Jane Ramsey
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| Posted: Aug 22 2007 at 9:16pm | IP Logged
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I agree with Barbara and Leonie--that seems like a HUGE list of chores. I just do the basics on most days: laundry, dishes, kitchen clean-up, picking up and putting away. Other things get fit in as needed. Often I make Sat. morning my big clean-up time for the week.
I also agree with Leonie on "pegging" things to certain times of the day. For example, we read a saint story at breakfast, try to do a Bible story at morning snack, etc. It's great b/c the kids are quiet when they're munching on food, and they have nothing else to do but listen!
I was also wondering if maybe your husband could help out a bit? Give a bath once in a while? Even just take the kids outside so you can get other stuff done? I would think there's got to be something he's willing to do to help.
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Aug 22 2007 at 11:22pm | IP Logged
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Syncletica:
Usually I'm the one asking for advice on how to "do" this...  . I have 4 girls and my oldest is 6 1/2 also, so we're in the same situation, except I'm not pregnant....yet 
Here are some random thoughts, in no particular order of things that people have told me that I've found helpful:
Now that my girls are "older" I"m constantly asking myself, if "this job" is something THEY can do, if properly trained. For example, a few months ago, I put color coded signs on the laundry baskets, so the 5 and 6 1/2 year old can sort the laundry every morning, throw a load in (I do go down and put the right settings on and start it, but they have saved me a few minutes of work), and switch it to the dryer later in the day. We are still in training mode, but so far, so good. This would esp. be helpful if I were pregnant I also have not folded a full load of laundry by myself in several months. They do it with me. Or....what I like even better is that they are folding while I put away.
Eliminate errands as much as possible. Have deliveries, arrange pick ups, etc, if money permits.
Set your house up to be "self cleaning". Good, industrial, dirt-catching rugs by the front door, etc. What makes your house messy/dirty? Is there something you can do to eliminate that?
Clean bit by bit. The fly-lady-method. I can't remember the last time I cleaned my BR all at once. Every time I go in there I wipe something. The 6-yr-old cleans the sink and counter. I clean the tub 1/week before bathtime.
I come from a long line of very clean and tidy Slovenian women.....even they admit that it's not nec. to change sheets every week  , unless you aren't able to go to bed clean, of course, because of a job or climate, etc. That's different. Pillowcases, maybe, but not sheets.
My kids get a bath once/week in the winter. In the summer, however, every night.....but I'm in charge and each kid gets in, gets wiped down by me and get out. It takes less than a minute per child. Once a week in the summer, they can frolick.
We do pegs too. Poetry and read aloud at breakfast. Song and reading at lunch. Clean up 3 times / day before meals. I also hang things where they eat, so we talk about them. If I get nothing else done, at least we've done the pegs.
If dh isn't the help-with-chores-type, maybe he'd take on an aspect of one of the older dc's learning. ie: when dh is in town, after dinner, he reads a bible story or from the Children's Book of Virtues". He also talks a lot about money, time, space, geography - his choice. Great! Check! He will also listen to them read aloud a bit if I feel that's been neglected lately.
See? Look at all we've done simply with pegging and dh doing a few things!
Morning Routine. These are their jobs, not mine .
In nice weather I send the kids outside and use the time to put things away, NOT clean. Even tho cleaning is more FUN for me, putting things away helps things go smoother and impacts my time with dc.
I've found that if I focus on dc, having fun with them, creating an environment where we are "living, loving, learning" (quote MaryG) together, the rest usually falls into place. That doesn't mean that I'm not constantly problem solving about how to do things better. .
I keep a list of my routine on the fridge in a page protector. Sometimes I use it as a checklist to keep me on track, when i'm overwhelmed and can't think of what comes next . But, it also helps me to see all those things checked off at the end of the day, and helps me to realise that I DID DO something today....it just all flowed together! Sometimes I scribble down absolutely everything we do in a day. Including discussions, things learned, what they're playing, etc. I am always surprised when I do this. A lot goes on here when I take a step back
Most of the time the house looks like a bomb went off, but truly, if dh and I start picking up.....it's LITERALLY 15 minutes, and we're back in business. I constantly tell myself, "This is no big deal....it's only 30 minutes of tidying between the two of us."
Sorry this is so long...hope something is helpful!
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Syncletica
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| Posted: Aug 23 2007 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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Okay, what exactly does "pegs" mean?
Sheets don't need to be cleaned every week? I thought I'd been very neglectful when I read of other women doing their sheets every week. Hmm.
Just off the top of my head, things always seem kind of dirty, b/c someone will walk inside with their rubber boots and not take them off, or not put their helmets or pants/skirts etc away properly when they've been told to, or the 20 mo. old and the 3 year old decide to play with the water in the bathroom, get soap or lotion on their hands and get it on the mirror. The mirror is one of those huge ones, that you can't avoid getting dirty b/c it's so big. Crayons get sharpened, shavings fall on the floor. Carelessness with eating making crumbs fall on the floor. Carelessly walking around with a pencil or crayons and marking up the wall. Sigh. Little things like that really frustrate me.
If we start picking up it usually doesn't take that long either. But if I have them do their playroom, I have to use threats to get them to get their act together. But it'll still be "Braydon's not helping, he's playing with ________" "I'm helping now." I'll hear a bunch of laughing, playing going on, and end up saying: "why don't you just clean up and get it done?" I'm debating getting rid of a lot of their toys. I've done that before, and the playroom has a lot less toys to put away now. But, things are never put away properly it seems. I sometimes end up saying, "If you don't care enough about your things to put them away properly, I'll give them away and maybe they'll go to someone who will care about them enough to put them away properly." Perhaps starting from scratch toys wise wouldn't be such a bad idea anyway. Maybe then they can learn to appreciate the ones they would get from that time onward.
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Aug 23 2007 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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None of this means to sound harsh, I'm just typing as fast as possible. I'll just throw a few things out there as responses to a few of your examples.
"someone will walk inside with their rubber boots".........Spend 5-10 minutes training them where to take their boots off. Demonstrate it yourself. No words, just do it about 5-10 times. they will laugh and giggle and it will be fun. Then explain that we don't wear boots inthe house and this is where you take them off and put them. You WILL have to remind them over and over, but I am ALWAYS at the door being the POLICE. I don't give them an opportunity to fail.
Same thing with the helmets. Take time to demonstrate where they go. Supervise clean up at the end of the day. I don't worry about things being all over the place (outside) throughout the day. At night, everything goes back to its place.
"play with the water in the bathroom".....I always keep the br door shut. Demonstrate to the olders how to always close the door after they use it.
mirror......I wipe the mirror once / week or unless someone is coming over. Who cares?
We don't sharpen crayons. They are .05 / box now, I buy 40 boxes, which lasts us all year. when they're flat, we melt them as a project. Too messy too sharpen.
"Carelessness with eating making crumbs fall on the floor." This is normal. Part of having kids. Train the 6 year old to sweep up after everymeal. it takes literally 1 minute. Then YOU do a major sweep at the end of the day.
"Carelessly walking around with a pencil or crayons and marking up the wall." Again...Demonstrate. I don't allow the kids to walk around with writing utensils unless they are in their container. they must carry the container to one of the three places where they write/draw. Put away when finished....me or them. I am always close by to see these things. the 6-year-old acts as police with some of this, so she helps keep an eye out.
"But if I have them do their playroom, I have to use threats"........Your kids are pretty young to be doing a major cleanup on their own. I'm always close by "helping" them, even if I just stand there helping them to "see" what needs to be done. a big messy room is overwhelming to us.....it MUST be to a small child. Making cleaning up fun.....sing songs, put music on, set the timer, etc. "If you get this room cleaned up in 5 minutes or less, We'll have some pretzels."
"I'll hear a bunch of laughing, playing going on, and end up saying: "why don't you just clean up and get it done?" ...............How about "I love that you are all having fun with each other, but let's get this room cleaned up, so we can go outside and jump rope." (or whatever)
"I'm debating getting rid of a lot of their toys." .....yes, that always helps. Or put some things away and rotate them.
"But, things are never put away properly it seems." Demonstrate over and over again. They may not remember where everything goes. This is where the supervision over the clean up helps. Help them and set them up for success. If I'm in the kitchen and it's time to clean up, I say, "OK let's clean up." and then I make sure I get my fanny in there within a few minutes to supervise.
Also, lots of praise and excitement when they DO do something correctly or in a timely manner. It's tiring, but helps a lot.
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Syncletica
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| Posted: Aug 23 2007 at 9:49am | IP Logged
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I guess it all boils down to that "tomato staking" idea I mentioned in another thread. Stick close to them and show them the way. Dear Blessed Mother, please help me be like you.
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Aug 23 2007 at 3:26pm | IP Logged
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Here's a sample of our routine on good days. As you will see, we are kind of heavy with the television, but believe it or not better than we used to be.
Btwn 7:00 and 8:30 Wake up when little one (almost 2) does.
Change diaper, get juice, put in video for little one.
Unload/load dishwasher/washing machine while water for coffee is boiling. Check e-mail and internet while drinking coffee.
9:00 Wake up older one (almost 5). We all brush teeth and get dressed.
Breakfast
School time with older one for about 30 minutes
Special time with little one for 15 to 30 minutes
12:00 Lunch time and listen to book on tape
1:00 Straighten up living room before Daddy gets home, then have read aloud time.
2:45 Snack Time
3:00 to 5:00 Put little one down for nap, television time for older one
5:30 Dinner
6:30 Game/Activity Time
8:30 Snack Time
9:00 Bedtime-brush teeth, put on pajamas, read one chapter to older one then scratch her back for three minutes with lights out, then take little one to bed
10:00 Go back down if haven't fallen asleep first
Any unaccounted time is used for chores or free playtime. Our rough chore schedule is:
Monday- laundry, Living Room (vacuum, dust,de-clutter)
Tuesday-Kitchen (wipe counters, mop floor, vacuum area rug)
Wednesday-Bathrooms (wipe toilets, sinks, mirrors, tubs)
Sheets are washed about once a month unless otherwise needed. Windows are rarely washed since they are usually unseen due to curtains and blinds. About once a month we might deep clean a few things, but that usually just happens when we have company expected.
Luckily our play room is upstairs so most toys are centralize there. We straighten it about once a week. That's also when we pick up toys that have trickled around the upstairs. We don't make beds unless company's coming. The kids have their own laundry basket to put their dirty clothes in.
And I don't think you necessarily have to tomato stake but you can do some prevention. Like, we don't allow writing utensils outside the kitchen. We don't wear shoes upstairs. And you will need to supervise some chores, especially overwhelming ones. And it might help to assign specific jobs to each child (one pick up blocks, one pick up another type of toy, one throw away garbage, etc).
As you can tell, we have pretty relaxed cleaning standards. I won't be winning any awards from Martha Stewart any time soon. Like I said, I try to keep the house clean enough to be healthy but dirty enough to be lived in. You just have to accept that kids and messes go hand in hand.
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Leonie
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| Posted: Aug 23 2007 at 4:44pm | IP Logged
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Syncletica wrote:
| Okay, what exactly does "pegs" mean? |
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Lissa's post on pegs...
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: time management help req’d
