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Lisbet
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| Posted: June 18 2007 at 9:47am | IP Logged
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I really don't want to sound uppity with this, but it is a sincere question that I would like some input on. (and well, frankly, there are some situations that I tend to be very uppity about! This might just be one!)
I know many of you have children heavily involved in sports. This summer, my oldest daughter is swimming on the local swim team. She is very excited and I feel much of this is very good for her. (perservence, commitment, etc...) But this sports environment is pretty new to me on this end of the spectrum. (I played sports myself as a teen, but as a mom, I have a much different view of things!)
I anticipated some possible foul language or inappropriate behavior from some of the teens. She will only be around them for short amounts of time on meet days, so intend to be mother hawk! But I am actually pretty suprised with what I have heard/seen from the mothers of her teamates! Besides the "big family, you have wayyy to many kids...etc..." blather that I have come to expect, I have heard more than my fair share of foul language and inappropriate conversation. (gossip, husband bashing, and kid bashing!)
Parents are supposed to help out at meets, and the swim coach said my oldest son could help out in my place so I could tend to my younger children. I decided against this after some very vulgar things were said by one of the mothers right in front of my 12 year old son. The coach and another mother asked me why I wasn't going to have him help, and I wasn't sure what to say. I opted to just say I needed him to help me out with his siblings. (Which was met with "oh you sure do have your hands full I totally understand, you'll be so busy with your children I hope you can watch your daughter swim"  )
Okay, so I can handle being ridiculed and pitied, like water off my back, right? But, what bugs me is that my family size has NOTHING to do with why I don't want him to help out. It really bugs me that grown women don't know what is okay or not okay to be talking about in front of children.
I intend to keep all of my children very close to me for the duration of the meet (and just wait till everyone beholds the sight of the size of my daughters own personal cheering team!!  ) and there are three other Catholic homeschooling families partcipating too. (my only sanity!) What is a real shame is that the day is going to be stressful and exciting enough, I don't want the added stress of worrying about the exposure of this this wordly environment on my children. I suppose I am terribly sheltered too, as this has all come as a bit of a shock to me!
Any suggestions on dealing with this type of thing? I would have looked like such a fool to say something to this group of mothers I've never met, who already think I'm insane, about watching their mouths in front of the children!!
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Mary Chris
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| Posted: June 18 2007 at 10:26am | IP Logged
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My suggestion is banding with the other Catholic homeschooling moms and watching each others backs. Honestly, during our swim meets I have no time for husband bashing or gossiping. I'm to busy working, clerk of course keeps you busy. My dh works as a stroke and turn judge, which can make him unpopular, but he's also out of the fray. Fortunately I have Irene around to watch my 7ds, I call him our swim meet orphan.
I only have three dc so I only have to deal with the crazy homeschooler remarks.
I think you are well within your rights to ask your team president or coach to send out an announcement reminding parents that children are around. I am sure you are not the only parent to be concerned about this.
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Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
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Maturemomg
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| Posted: June 18 2007 at 10:39am | IP Logged
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I guess I would be inclined to go back and tell them the REAL reason why. They may indeed think you're a prude or whatever, but I would feel it is important for them to know that you have standards and you are not willing to discard them. SOMEONE needs to stand up (not loudly or even publically, but to those in charge) and chaneg the world. This may be a small place God is asking you to do that.
Plus, it would bug the heck out of me for people to think that my poor 12 can't help out with X because he has to watch his little brothers and sisters.....
We haven't done much formal sports. I have been shocked that around here they have wrestling meets that start Sunday morning at 9 am! If my kids were in it, I would raise a ruckus! (I don't even like sports things ON Sundays!)
Now, that said, my dd is showing her horse this year and doing game shows. Some of those are on Sunday and start at 8 am. We simply don't go to those (and they know why). But it is not a big deal to miss something like that. (In the wrestling, you HAVE to be at the meet if you want to be on the team....)
Prayers and good luck!
Yours in Christ,
Kathy
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folklaur
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| Posted: June 18 2007 at 11:26am | IP Logged
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My oldest dd (now 17) is very involved in music, and last year joined Marching Band - which she can participat ein through the local PS. She loves it.
But - oh my - guess when Marching Band plays? Right in the middle of football games. Eeegads. The people in the stands with me, etc, have no problem using all sorts of language - in front of my little ones. ( I was MORTIFIED the first game we went to. I will comment loudly sometimes on it and I have had some people look ashamed or apologize.) Now I have a better idea of where to sit (we can't see most of the game very well, but, we move when the band goes to the field.) I wish I had other homeschoolers to sit with!
And I can't stand husband-bashing. It is just awful isn't it?
But - I know how you feel about the situation with your son. I have had people comment to me ( and I have only THREE - THREE is not many at all!?!) when Sarah has had to say "no" to something because for some reason I needed her help with the younger two. Other people act like I am doing this great disservice to my child, and if I can't "watch my own children" every minute of every day I have no business having "so many". What?!? I only have three 
We'll keep you all in our prayers...
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chicken lady
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| Posted: June 18 2007 at 11:56am | IP Logged
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WOW, I could have written your post right down to this is our first year in organized sports, also a swim team, I too am appauled by the parents. So if you are sheltered I am under the same shelter, and grateful for the shade!
As for advice I don't know, I am trying something new......keeping my mouth shut  I will let you know how long that lasts 
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: June 18 2007 at 12:24pm | IP Logged
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I want to just quickly jump in from another perspective. I was a lifeguard and a swim coach all through high school and college. And I distinctly remember a lovely family with several children. They had a marriage encounter sticker on their car. I knew they were Catholic and I watched them. Let me tell you again: I watched them. I wanted to know what made that family work. My family looked nothing like theirs but I knew that when I grew up I wanted my family to look everything like theirs. The mom wasn't one of the bikini moms who lounged and looked so cool. She was round and looked like a mother, the kind you'd want to give you a hug.
You know one of the daughters in that family. She is Maria A on this board, though she's forever the shy Marisa to me.
My point is don't be afraid to live what you believe and to live it boldly out in public. You never who's watching you for cues on how she should live...
Marisa, tell your mom thanks for me!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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joann10
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| Posted: June 18 2007 at 1:05pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
My point is don't be afraid to live what you believe and to live it boldly out in public. You never who's watching you for cues on how she should live...
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I have a wonderful priest that has always told me that you never know who is watching and that our opportunity to be an example for others is just by living our Catholic life everywhere we go.
That is much harder than it sounds as we all know.
We have had kids in sports for 15 years and these activities have given us some of our biggest challenges.
But, I have also been told years later by people that they remember us at games and what a wonderful sight it was. When our first kids played little league, we would often pack snacks and a blanket and drinks and head way down a sideline and have a picnic, that was at least 15 years ago.Just recently, I had a lady I don't even know, comment to me that she remembers us from those days and always loved seeing such a large happy family enjoying each other. It was so rare then, and more so now.
I just pray for the graces needed to deal with the day and the graces needed to be an example to anyone around us that happens to be watching.
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Lisbet
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| Posted: June 18 2007 at 2:53pm | IP Logged
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Thank you all so much for you input. Elizabeth, you gave a great perspective here, and one that I have been thinking about while running errands this afternoon. I was older and newly married the first time I met a lovely big Catholic family, and I do credit their holy example and sheer joy in living thier vocations to play a HUGE role in my conversion to the Faith and our openess to life.
I also know that the other Catholic moms I mentioned, we will help one another out, and help curb the exposure our young dc have to this attitude. I know I have faults too, and being quick to judge may just be one of those. I am going to try to act in humility and charity when I encounter these situations, while sticking to my convictions! Is that possible? With God's Grace of course. Now, I just need to pray that I can 'perservere' in His Grace! :)
Again, thank you all so much. What wisdom you all have here!
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Patty LeVasseur
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| Posted: June 19 2007 at 12:12pm | IP Logged
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My children all play hockey and since my husband is the coach I usually have to deal with parents even if I don't like what they say. I try to be friendly with everyone and to join in conversations with people, but as soon as the conversation goes anywhere that I am not comfortable, I just politely excuse myself. Some people just figure I need to go help one of my children, but others have figured out the pattern of when I excuse myself and have actually made an effort to watch what they are saying around me.
I would tell the coach why you are not comfortable having your son help if you think you can do it as unemotionally as possible. I bet he/she is too busy with coaching to realize what is going on and it will make him more aware of why others may also be uncomfortable helping.
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Patty
mom to four blessings
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msclavel
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| Posted: June 19 2007 at 12:50pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth, thank you! I'm a bit overcome with emotion at your beautiful words...just thanks.
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Philothea
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| Posted: June 30 2007 at 4:43pm | IP Logged
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With the foul language and inappropriate talk, I think you are well within bounds to say "Please don't talk that way in front of my children."
As for the husband bashing and gossip, you can either abruptly get up and leave when the topic turns that way, or you can become a master at quickly and gracefully changing the subject. I'm working on this myself.
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ALmom
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| Posted: July 01 2007 at 1:23am | IP Logged
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Ditto the remove yourself from unhealthy conversations, or change the subject. This is one of those basic things we do in any conversational situation that involves gossip, slander, inappropriate content, detraction. It is putting into practice the "avoid the near occassions of sin." We either leave or turn the conversation to something positive. Our children also need to learn to do this. In a swimming situation with scantilly clad females running about, I sure would make sure I'd taught ds to guard his eyes and allow him something to bring to be focused on - a book, maybe. Then you could let him know when sis is swimming so he could see her and root her on. Be attentive if he becomes reluctant to go to the meets, etc. and sensitive to temptations that he may be dealing with.
Knowing what our dc would likely be exposed to in the particular sport they were in, we saw a need to train and an opportunity for the dc to practice this in real situations of limited exposure and duration.
When ours played ball, (and it wasn't for a long time and we are not big sports people so it has been a while since we have had to deal with this) they understood that they were to study the game, learn by watching in the dugout, remove themselves from "bad" conversations (whether it was criticizing the ump, complaining about the coaches or where they were played in the field, gossiping, or stuff they would be embarrassed for mom or dad to hear. If they heard lots of secret whisperings that seemed to be avoiding adults and wasn't involved in planning a surprise for the coach or something along those lines, that likely was inappropriate conversation and there was no reason for them to try and figure it out - stay focused on the game. We expected them to move away from these kind of conversations - didn't have to make a big fuss doing it and actually it was best to be discrete but consistent. They were not obligated to stay around and listen trying to decide if it was bad or not, we expected them to discretely remove themselves anytime their guardian angel gave that whispering nudge that something didn't seem right. They were there to learn that particular sport and that should be the focus while there. We also told them that cat calls at the other teams batters is not allowed in professional sports because it is bad sportsmanship and they would not be allowed to do it, period, even if everybody else was! The coach did ask us about our ds because when the coach tried to encourage him to do it, our son quietly told him he wasn't allowed. We explained to the coach that yes, in fact, we had instructed our son this way and the coach respected our authority with our son - the team kept up the catcalls but no one badgered our son about it or isolated him for not doing it. He cheered for his own teammates. Our children also knew that if we saw bad example causing them to adopt bad behavior, we would pull out. We were open to them telling us if things were becoming difficult to avoid and we would address it discretely for them if necessary and help them come up with acceptable ways to handle situations if they needed ideas on how to address things. It is amazing how quickly people picked up on the children's discomfort without being "told" or "scolded" and of course we were doing the same thing. Sometimes, people would ask about something directly - ie why don't you do the "hey batter, batter" thing and we would quietly explain our position always using the words "we felt, we have always had a rule in our house ..." so it wasn't a confrontational thing just answering a question honestly. I think the first time one of our children shifted down in the dugout due to bad language, the next week the coach reminded the parents about watching our language (and he had been the one with bad language the first time and was able to use personal example to the other parents so it didn't come across as judgemental in any way).
I didn't go out of my way to find confrontation or to harrass coaches (neither my dh or I had the skill to do a whole lot directly so we were quite appreciative of the time and effort these coaches put forth even when some of our dc suffered quite a bit in the whole little league atmosphere). We tried to teach respect for the office so to speak and model this ourselves. My dh volunteered to be dugout "mom" since we had experience keeping large numbers of dc in line and the first day of practice the dugout was full of a bunch of monkies that seemed totally out of control and we would not be able to deal with that all year. We also made sure that one of us was with the dc at all times - never dropped off, and sometimes had to split up as different dc were playing on different fields at different times. We stayed very in touch with what was being said or done around our dc. The coach gladly accepted the offer of dugout help - seemed with a certain amount of relief. During game time watching, I tried to always respond with positive comments when confronted with negatives. You really have your hand full was always answered with something along the lines of "we love it or we wouldn't have it any other way." Eventually the whole gee you have so many kids thing kind of died down and we were getting people amazed at how polite, etc.
I guess this is a long winded way of saying - be consistent and firm in maintaining your family's standards and making sure that dc do even when the surroundings do not encourage this. Don't go out of your way to confront, be positive and thankful for whatever good you see, but remove yourself from the petty gossip and the negatives and teach your dc to do the same. If you must address something with the coach or those in charge, do it privately and in a respectful manner also offering positives where you can honestly compliment. A lot of times these coaches were always harrangued because their kid didn't get to be pitcher or wasn't played long enough or why did you tell my kid to run to the next base.... and the coaches seemed genuinely appreciative when the time and effort they put into coaching was recognized. We often had differences of opinion on what we thought was a better way to handle a rec league BUT we recognized that we were not the ones volunteering to be there day and night, had limited knowledge of the sport, etc. and we kept these opinions to ourselves - (my dh and I may have vented together in private after the dc were in bed but never to anyone else). I would not have hesitated to address something if the safety (spiritual or physical) of my dc required it. I also was up front with one coach who always had practices on Sunday - we simply explained that we reserved Sunday as a day of rest and if that was a problem with them, we'd understand if they wanted to shift us to another team that didn't practice on a regular basis on Sunday. The coach was fine with this dc missing 1 practice per week and dc was tempermentally fine with the obvious consequence of not getting good enough to play infield.
Janet
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Topic: Dealing with 'Other' Mothers?
