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doris
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Another in the recent stream of Discipline topics...
We don't allow our dc to say certain words. The words in question are 'stupid', 'wretched' and 'shutup'. They're also not allowed to say 'I don't care' or 'Na na nee na na' or use any of our (very innocent) family words for bodily parts out of context (ie as an insult).
Well, my elder two children are *really* good about it. I very, very rarely have to correct them. But my 3yo is an absolute terror. She says Those Words all the time. She even invents her own version (stupadude) or abbreviates them ('wret' or 'stup') to see what she can get away with...
Nothing works! Not warnings, not reasoning, not time outs, not loss of privileges. Today there was a slight improvement because dh included 'that we would all speak nicely to each other' in the dc's night-time prayers.
Any other thoughts? My sense is that, at three, she is certainly old enough to know what she is doing.
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Rachel May
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I know a very gentle mother, like you, who said, "When ugly stuff comes out, ugly stuff goes in." They got a spoonful of castor oil. 
She only disciplined 4 things with a strong arm (wish I could remember the other 3), and this was one.
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Anne McD
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I have to chuckle-- I love the culture difference-- I'd be thrilled if I heard my children use the word wretched. 
Now if you'll excuse me, I just heard my 4yo call his brother stupid... time out time!
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SuzanneG
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Anne McD wrote:
| I have to chuckle-- I love the culture difference-- I'd be thrilled if I heard my children use the word wretched. |
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Ignoring?
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Carole N.
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Is castor oil pretty fowl tasting? Maybe I should invest in a bottle. I, too, have words that are forbidden and shut up is one of them. I hear it from my teens and pre-teens more than I would care to. Perhaps I should take a stronger stance on this issue ... 
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MaryMary
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Elizabeth,
Perhaps you could discourage the use of inappropriate words in one child by rewarding or encouraging the use of gentle and kind words in your other children. We usually do not have that problem here (I should not speak too soon...)but one day when I had had enough bickering btwn my two dds I told them that sweet words would be rewarded with a sweet treat. I gave each girl a little something sweet when I caught her saying something in a kind manner toward a member of the family. But I had to be the one to notice, they were not allowed to come running to me to tell me the kind thing they said. It got pretty hysterical when I had to resort to giving the girls a squirt of leftover whipping cream from a cake I had made, as I had not a single sweet treat left in the house !! It just took a few days of "sweet mouths" to turn things around here!
P.S. Is "bloody" considered a terrible word in the U.K? Uhhmmm, not that I would ever consider using that word sometimes, once or twice..  
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Erin
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Elizabeth
I have been using apple cider vinegar lately. I say when disgusting words come out disgusting tastes go in! You may only have to do it once. I remember back when I used soap I only had to do it once with one ds. My younger ds is a trial maybe apple cider vinegar isn't horrid enough although he sure reactes like it is
All those words are forbidden here too, although not wretched, I have only read it in English school books
I like your idea Mary I'll think on that one.
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florasita
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Well as a person who hears it all the time in the area we live in .Oh yes we get woken up almost each night with foul language being yelled in the back allys etc. Summer is much worse as it is the time all the disfuntion comes out .
Agsin I believe we just acnnot tell the child that is wrong we don't do that here is your unpunishment .
Our kids see / hear people swaering all the time and not being punished for it .
So they need to know why those eople have made that choice to do so . Most often of course it is a learned behaviour . It is done out of anger .
Why do we insult or judge others gossip etc. it is no different .There is an unerlying hostility , anger , fear or .
I was just going to start a post on dealing with anger because it is one of the issues people need to deal with in healing . Anger is not a sin it is the chouices we choose when angry that can become sinful or good choices .
So when our kids are saying bad words even for a 3yo we need to ask them the why .Of course our explanations and talk does not need to be long but just to punish how is a lesson learned . How can then learn tolerance and acceptance if we cannot practice it ourselves .
So why does someone wish to call thier dear brother stupid ? Or tease etc. ?
When I used to swear it was out of anger . Just being able to say to admit I was angry stopped my swearing . art of healing from anger , pain , addictions anything is acknowledgment . Often that is all it takes .
As a result of our poor choices yes most often there is a consquence .Hopefully we learn from our lessons no matter how hard they were .
Like Elizabeth said to counter a negative there most be a posative . So what would be the posative the virtue to practice and the grace to ask for say for teasing . Instead of teasing yes kind words of encouragment of compliment etc. the grace of santification or purification etc.
I would also say please do not use castor oil it can cause damage to a child and severe cramping if given to much .
Going to ones room is often enough . The other day Pascal ds 6 through a pillow in my face .It hurt and he was told to go up and have a time out alone . He went and as I listened at the door was sitting using his brothers rain stick . Just calmly sitting . I always tell the kids I will come back when they've had a calm time .
Well I sort of forgot about him oopps as I went out to the garden .He started to call me . When I got to the door he said in his beautiful voice " um mum is there something you wanted to talk to me about ? "
Really I think talking and calm time is almost always the best way . We do take away tv / computer / friend time as consquences but that doesn't happen very often .
I really personally having been someone who swore / used bad words ( being Canadian wretched & bloody are some of them ) I already was in torment inside punishing me with something cruel would not have worked . When someone is doing harmful things because they are hurt and feel badly about themselves harming them is not a solution .
Much Love , Rox
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Karen E.
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Anne McD wrote:
| I have to chuckle-- I love the culture difference-- |
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I was thinking the same thing, esp. since I once posted about Ramona calling to her sister to "Get your wretched son (the cat) off the stairs!" Not only did I laugh, I broadcast it to the world!
Anyway, at three years old, I agree with you that she knows, but she also is testing lots of boundaries, plus she probably *loves* getting reactions.
Though it's time-consuming, what I do is to make Ramona repeat her action or word, substituting what is appropriate. So, if she called a sibling stupid, I'll stop what I'm doing (most of the time ... unless I'm blogging ... just kidding .... ) and walk her through redoing it the right way, reminding her that our family doesn't talk to one another that way, reminding her of how much Jesus loves us and wants us to treat each other kindly. Then, the wronged sibling needs to forgive, and we end with a hug. Even if I'm not 100% consistent, this is the way I handle it *most* of the time, and it does modify behaviors, and gets to the heart of the issue, even with little ones. Maybe especially with little ones, as they have a strong sense of and understanding of "feeling wronged." We just have to channel it so that their sense of justice is directed outward as well as inward. 
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Carole N.
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Karen, this is great advice! But I wonder if it will work with my teens? I never really had this problem until recently. And I can probably attribute it to outside exposure because of course the children would never hear name calling or inappropriate language from the adults in our household.
My ds who is in public school (5th grade) has been exposed to a certain degree. I know that the principal has worked hard to eliminate this problem, but she cannot be with children every second. Next year, he would go off to a middle school. I have heard so many stories about how bad that place is that we have decided to bring him home. Too much exposure to too many "extra-curricular" activities--and not the ones approved by the school.
In the meantime, I fight the battle because it is like a virus. I am sure that it is a testing of parental authority. They know that it is wrong, yet they make the choice to let the words fall from their lips. So I was thinking that the more drastic castor oil (or cider vinegar since I have it own hand) would be a good shock factor in the elimination of just unkind talk.
Sorry to hijack your thread, Elizabeth, but this has really been bothing me lately. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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doris
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Thanks so much for all the great advice. (And don't apologise, Carole, all opinions and experiences welcome.)
Hmmm, I don't know where 'wretched' came from. I think it was me calling using it as a fairly harmless word for a thing I was annoyed with and the dc then applying it to each other.
Mary, 'bloody' is -- traditionally at least -- considered a very bad word. For example, I've never heard my mother say it. Nowadays as standards have slipped it's less taboo -- although the suggestion that the derivation is 'by our Lady' should give us pause.
Hmm, just had to interrupt my post to deal with another infringement. DD2 called ds 'wretched'. I asked her to say 'I'm annoyed with you.' She said, 'I'm annoyed with you, stupid.'
Well, I didn't handle it well, and shouted myself. I also gave her some wine vinegar. She was *extremely* unimpressed, threw a massive tantrum and the other two said they would put all sorts of other inedible things in *my* mouth -- clearly the sense of justice has been highly offended as that's not normally my style. (Maybe I'm a gentle mother after all! Rachel, I was pleased to be described like that but I don't think it's the first adjective that springs to my mind.)
I think I need to get some sweets so that we can do the positive reinforcement thing as well. But the thing is, the children do often say kind things to each other. It's taming the tongue in the heat of the moment that they struggle with. I also struggle with the balance between allowing them to express their feelings and be emotionally healthy, versus being respectful of other people's feelings. Aargh!
Maybe we'll also do a poster with our 'house rules' too. (Kind hands, kind words, all that jazz.)
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SuzanneG
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doris wrote:
Hmm, just had to interrupt my post to deal with another infringement. DD2 called ds 'wretched'. I asked her to say 'I'm annoyed with you.' She said, 'I'm annoyed with you, stupid.'
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Once again, I just have to
Because your daughter is only 3, I'm wondering if having a plan for everyone to ignore her would help. I just remembered our similar situation:
About 6 months ago, my then-3-yr-old was saying "booger, poop, pee" (and other bodily functions) all the time, just for fun.....just because she knew she wasn't supposed to and everyone would laugh and then spend time explaining to her WHY we shouldn't say this.
So, I had a huddle with the older two and said, "whenever she says this, we are going to ignore her. if you feel like you have to giggle and laugh, just RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN FROM THE ROOM. go to mom's room and laugh all you want. But, don't laugh in front of her."
Then, we actually PRACTICED this when she wasn't around. "booger, poop, pee"......urge to laugh....flee the scene...laugh in mom/dad's room. We also practiced continuing talking or starting a whole other conversation that didn't involve her. We had a "back up topic" (I think it was about dogs, b/c the 3-year-old doesn't like dogs ).
She stopped eventually (maybe it took a couple weeks or a month), cuz she got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when she said it.
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mary theresa
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Rachel May wrote:
I know a very gentle mother, like you, who said, "When ugly stuff comes out, ugly stuff goes in." They got a spoonful of castor oil.
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I think this is really funny!
This whole thread makes me laugh.
Of course, my daughter is only 13 mos and can't say anything "naughty" yet. So, I'm taking notes, but laughing because kids do say really funny "bad" words sometimes. Is that okay?
Suzanne, I love the picture of your kids running from the room and the little one being left behind in amazement. 
My mom used to wash our mouths out with soap. I still remember this cuz it tastes BAD!
She would say, "your mouth must be dirty from saying those dirty words, come with me to the bathroom and we'll wash it out."
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MaryMary
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doris wrote:
Mary, 'bloody' is -- traditionally at least -- considered a very bad word. For example, I've never heard my mother say it. Nowadays as standards have slipped it's less taboo -- although the suggestion that the derivation is 'by our Lady' should give us pause. |
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Oh NO!!!! I truly had no idea that it borders on BLASPHEMY  !
I'm off to rinse my own mouth out with vinegar ...
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kingvozzo
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MaryMary wrote:
doris wrote:
Mary, 'bloody' is -- traditionally at least -- considered a very bad word. For example, I've never heard my mother say it. Nowadays as standards have slipped it's less taboo -- although the suggestion that the derivation is 'by our Lady' should give us pause. |
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Oh NO!!!! I truly had no idea that it borders on BLASPHEMY !
I'm off to rinse my own mouth out with vinegar ...
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I was intrigued by this...this is what wikipedia (by no means an authority, just the first link that came up ) has to say.
I once heard someone say that they never say "Gee whiz" because they heard it was derived from " Jesus wizard." Gee whiz is about the mildest exclamation I've ever heard...I know bloody isn't considered mild in some circles. The only time I ever heard my dad (an Irishman) use it was when he was mighty mad!
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Bridget
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Karen E. wrote:
Though it's time-consuming, what I do is to make Ramona repeat her action or word, substituting what is appropriate. So, if she called a sibling stupid, I'll stop what I'm doing (most of the time ... unless I'm blogging ... just kidding .... ) and walk her through redoing it the right way, reminding her that our family doesn't talk to one another that way, reminding her of how much Jesus loves us and wants us to treat each other kindly. Then, the wronged sibling needs to forgive, and we end with a hug. Even if I'm not 100% consistent, this is the way I handle it *most* of the time, and it does modify behaviors, and gets to the heart of the issue, even with little ones. Maybe especially with little ones, as they have a strong sense of and understanding of "feeling wronged." We just have to channel it so that their sense of justice is directed outward as well as inward. |
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Now this is such a excellent summary of good discipline! The key with any issue is just to GET UP and take care of it.
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Anne McD
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I had heard that "bloody" was a sacraligious referral to the Sacred Blood of Christ. I try to keep the kids from using "hocus pocus" and "abracadabra" b/c I heard these were abbereritions to make fun of the Mass. My latin is bad (okay, close to non-existenent ), but I understand they come from the concecration. "Hoc Est . . .", and I don't know the other one. . . .
In all honesty, getting back to Elizabeth's origininal question, when they are little, I just keep reminding them over and over and over and over and over and over and over (ad nauseum . . . see, there's the extent of my latin! ) that we don't use those words. It just drives me nuts when the boys uses "potty words" at the dinner table. 
Then there was the time when my then 3yo son, in a small church, just before the great Amen, called out d*mnit! for no particular reason. My husband turned purple, trying not to laugh. . . .
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organiclilac
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Anne McD wrote:
| Then there was the time when my then 3yo son, in a small church, just before the great Amen, called out d*mnit! for no particular reason. My husband turned purple, trying not to laugh. . . . |
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Oh, this reminds me of the first time we went to church after my son potty trained. I picked him up and set him on my hip the way I always had, but without the extra padding of the diaper... he LOUDLY complained, "Mommy! You're pinching my p*n*s!"
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Naughty Words
