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cathochick
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| Posted: April 13 2007 at 11:16am | IP Logged
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What guidelines do you use in determining for yourself what is modest, feminine dress? Any book, document, encyclical, Saint's writing recommendations?
--Jessica
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Maryan
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| Posted: April 13 2007 at 12:34pm | IP Logged
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Honestly... I ask my dh.
Modest dress is such a tricky question -- every body type is different.
In terms of just modest dress: At the school I taught they used a lot of fingertip regulations!! Two fingers at the neck, shorts fingertip length (although that can be inappropriate if someone has short arms!), skirts that touched the floor when kneeling (no slits above knee), and many more...
But I don't recall a reference -- I think we just hashed out what was appropriate with the parents and the faculty.
I'm sure there's an old thread on this or someone here has better suggestions!!
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Maryan
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insegnante
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I just err on the side of caution, to the point that even if my pro-modesty husband thinks something is OK I don't automatically go with it. So I'm not much help. I'm overweight enough that aesthetic concerns alone also help me to avoid "too tight" and "too short." I have switched almost entirely to skirts and dresses because it is too hard to find pants (that I like and can afford, etc.) that fit both modestly and without a baggy and/or sloppy appearance.
This is probably a silly question but when they say two finger widths below the collarbone, do they mean if you take your hand and place your fingers horizontally, like with your fingernails pointing left or right and the knuckle lines going up and down, the width of two fingers that way? I wish I were more of a visuospatial person to be able to express this clearly! I can't figure out any other way that the rule makes sense but maybe I am missing something. Necklines are what rule a lot of potential purchases out for me, as I can tell many are too low at first glance, but honestly sometimes things that seem like they are plenty modest enough fail what this two fingerwidths guideline has seemed to me to mean. So I don't always follow it.
There are some guidelines on our parish Web site that I'm thinking were probably meant to state bare minimums of acceptable dress for Mass for both sexes. Scroll down to "clothing." Mid-thigh is a "must" for skirts, dresses, and shorts, but "knee-length or longer is preferred." Strapless and "cleavage" are out. I see what I consider "cleavage" on a lot of people who seem to be pretty faithful Catholics (at least outside of Mass) so I'm wondering if some people define it differently.
Theresa
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Bridget
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| Posted: April 13 2007 at 4:14pm | IP Logged
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There have been a few discussions. 
virtue and skirts
modesty is...
modesty in shoes, make up, hair
modesty and girls
the big, huge, long thread
And these are just the longer threads that came up with a title search on modesty. But every discussion about it brings out new aspects and new resources.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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chicken lady
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Check out Helens blog, she has a lot of wisdom. Helen or someone can you link it?
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SuzanneG
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Helen's Great Posts!
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mairejam5
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| Posted: April 13 2007 at 9:32pm | IP Logged
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Read the book "Dressing with Dignity." From what I remember it has quotes from some church (vatican?) documents and saints.
Maire
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cathochick
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| Posted: April 13 2007 at 11:54pm | IP Logged
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That's the one I've been reading lately. I'm wondering where to find the document that mentions the "Vatican Standards" for modest dress. I see vague references to the quote on different sites but can't find the actual document .
--Jessica
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Maryan
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| Posted: April 14 2007 at 10:20am | IP Logged
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Not definitely sure about "vatican standards"... but perhaps this is a clue: when I was chaperoning at trip in Rome at St. Peter's, they had guards that ensured that there were no shorts, skirts below the knee, and that sleeveless shirts weren't allowed into the basilica.
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Maryan
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monalisa
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I've been to the Vatican, and yes, somewhere I saw on a wall the dress regulations for entering the Vatican. Pretty much cover your knees and shoulders- that's the same in all the churches in Italy. Check out the website www.purefashion.com. It's a site and program run by Rugnum Christi. Those are the guidelines I try to use for myself. I have a hard time finding clothes because I'm over 6' and am an H cup (yes, I am) when nursing. But I'm also thin so I can't just buy plus sizes- believe me, I've tried. So I make due. DH is sort of into fashion, though, and I like to dress somewhat fashionably because he dresses fashionably and he kind of likes ME to dress fashionably- not trendy, but classy. Also kind of hard to look classy with baby spit up all over you and diapers leaking regularly- ROFL!!!
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monalisa
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Oh, and the reason it can be so hard to cover all cleavage and have a modest bosom is that all clothing is designed for A through D cup bosoms. I have some friends in fashion design and I always complain to them. That is industry standard. So many of us nursing mommies with much larger cup sizes can find a nice dress that fits everywhere- except... KWIM? If you try to buy the right size shirt or dress for your bosom, then it might fit like a tent everywhere else. Now if we all only had the time to sew beautiful garments in addition to everything else we do...
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juststartn
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That is part of the reason I asked for (and got) a sewing machine for Christmas. Of course, I've not used it yet. I was just gearing up to, when low and behold, I found I was having twins...and now NO maternity clothes fit me well at all. I've bought a couple of skirts to last me the next several weeks, but I'm just going to try and stay home as much as possible. I've got a max of 7 wks left anyway...sigh
There are some really nice patterns out there, you just have to look around sometimes. And the fabric stores around here are almost always running a sale on one kind of pattern or another...for $.99 most of the time, so you can get multiples if need be....
Rachel
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CathinCoffeland
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 monalisa - totally agree ive gained a cup size with every pg and am afraid to have more- they only make one cup bigger than i am now
it is so hard to find shirts that look right buttons are out this "stretch" material is out , and all those shirts that are gathered under the bosom? 
im stuck with loose ie tent like tshirts until im done having/nursing babies...
i thought that the vatican guide mentioned above is interesting.
a lot of ladies around here layer cute sundresses (kneelengh) over capris. nice if they made cute sundresses in "short busty and nursing" sizes
maggie
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monalisa
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| Posted: April 15 2007 at 2:53pm | IP Logged
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Yes, honestly, some of the shirts I wear are not 100% super modest- they end up, um, maybe 89% modest. Because I just have to have something a little tailored-looking. You know, something that lets people know I have a waist. Even if it is maybe one teeny bit too tight across the chest. You know, not obscene!!! But I've heard some modesty guidelines where if you push your shirt in between your chest and it pops back out then the shirt is too tight. Well, even if I AM wearing a tent-like shirt, that happens just because I am so endowed. I do my best with what I've got. I don't dress immodestly, but I just can't do frumpy.
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humanaevitae
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I agree with the bust issue Monalisa! It is very hard to find shirts. The bust takes up so much extra fabric that they are often short in the length! I tend to wear a cami underneath shirts so I don't completely flash my chest at people when I have to bend down and grab my 2yo.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Modesty Guidelines
