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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 11 2007 at 10:19am | IP Logged
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Happy Easter!
I have a dear friend with three children ages five and under. She and her husband feel called to parent their children in an attached way. They are receiving (I'm sure well intended) advice from their peers at their parish and local Catholic hs group that in order for them to grow in their relationship with God and each other, they must separate from each other and their children for retreats, date nights, vacations without children, parish-based clubs, home ed. co-ops, etc.
Without disrespecting that many women and their husbands feel called to the type of path described by my friend's local peers, can those of you have been blessed by living the attachment calling please share your "success" stories? How do you show confidence in your choices to others while being courteous? For those of you with older children who have thrived through attachment parenting, what do you see as benefits gained for them and your family? How do you grow in holiness if we don't attend retreats and other parish-based clubs? How do you deal with loneliness and feeling outside the loop (and possibly judged negatively)? How do you get your alone needs met and your couple needs met? What are your favorite resources for support?
The saddest part of my conversation with my friend was when she said, "I've tried so hard to make this work at my parish and with other local Catholic homeschoolers, but I still don't have a friend for myself or friends for my children. If something doesn't change soon, I will need to look for local friendships elsewhere."
I'm sure that your words of experience and joy will reassure my friend. And please, let's pray that she finds local friends soon. Thank you!
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Mary G
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| Posted: April 11 2007 at 10:37am | IP Logged
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Oh gosh Angie -- I really feel for this family. This is terrible advice she is getting ... yes, they should have time to themselves but since the primary reason for a marriage is to have children, doesn't this advice (especially from CHURCH!) seem a bit misplaced....
Now, it maybe that these folks see the family as being too attached ... but whose business is that?
Sorry, no advice but I will pray for your friend and her family that they find a niche in their community that will offer them support and advice that works with what they think is right.....
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3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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stefoodie
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Angie, you are one of my bestest attachment parenting friends, and I've gotten lots of inspiration and encouragement from you! So just you and Dave being this couple's friends would make a difference to them, I'm sure.
Success stories, I don't have much. I just know that we were "attachment-parented", so I'm mostly just following the pattern here. But we have happy kids who are open and loving and sincere and enjoy being part of the family, most of the time anyway, so I guess you could call that success.
The holiness part is not that difficult -- we sanctify each other! Just being part of a loving, growing family is, for us, more than enough opportunity to grow in holiness. Gosh, there's so much opportunity, a lot of it goes by unnoticed and not taken advantage of at times!
The loneliness and feeling outside the loop, I deal with by coming here:D -- when I feel down because of "the world", you all are my "tiramisu" (pick-me-up).
That said, we did join the local Couples for Christ, #1 because it's mostly Filipinos so the kids get some heritage education, #2 because we see the Fruits of the Holy Spirit so clearly in this group that we wanted our kids to be part of it.
BUT the CFC affiliation is secondary to us. Anytime their activities interfere with our family schedule, we almost always rule in favor of the family.
BTW, I don't mean to disregard or put down any of the parish-based clubs or retreats, it's just that we prefer to do things as a family, instead of separately, hence the appeal of CFC for us. If our parish offered more family things instead of men only/women only/kids only stuff, we'd most likely get involved in those.
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stef
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amyable
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| Posted: April 11 2007 at 2:41pm | IP Logged
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My family has becoming more "AP" as we have had more children. If anything, now that we parent more that way, dh and I are much *closer* as a couple than we were (and we were pretty close!) It's only gotten better and better - without time away. It seems that the extreme love and self-giving of attachment parenting just enriches the entire family. My last two children (the more "attached" ones) are definitely more loving, self assured, and just seem more well-adjusted than my first two. (More post partum depression may have something to do with that too - but that hampered the attaching.)
I haven't attended more than a tiny 3 hour retreat since college, and even that was probably 5 years ago. This is just my humble opinion, but I think a person can grow in holiness just fine without all that. Boards like this one, reading classic Catholic books, reading the Bible, going to confession often, praying, praying, praying are all ways to grow at this stage in her life. In my personal life, simply having my children and trying my best to love and serve my family with a good attitude have made me grow by leaps and bounds (and I still have sooooooo far to go  ). Being little and hidden in the attached homeschooling lifestyle certainly has it's spiritual benefits.
I'm wondering about her friend situation, though ... not one of my IRL friends parents the way we do, but that hasn't stopped us from being friends, since we have other things in common (Catholic homeschooling, etc). Are people not willing to be friendly with her? As my kids have gotten older, they have also made a few friends whose parents I don't choose to become friends with, but she may have some time to wait before that becomes more feasible. Yes, there are many lonely times sometimes, but I feel better when I throw myself back into my family and try to forget about myself! 
I fear I haven't expressed myself well here - let me just end by saying I'm praying for her, and I'm on her side! 
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 11 2007 at 3:44pm | IP Logged
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Thank you, Ladies. Mary, my friend will appreciate your shock! Amy, your words are perfect! Stef, I miss living by you  .
I do wonder why my friend is being, ummm, helped by these other women. My friend hasn't asked for their opinion...unsolicited advice is something that makes me run the other way quickly! Sheesh, if someone is looking too closely at me, they will surely find too much in need of fixing  .
I asked my mom what she thought of this situation. She said that when she was a young mother, there were women who wanted her to become more independant (via trips to Atlantic City ) and she got ribbed about being a home-body. She was asked to help at church but that was more hands-on helping (like mashing potatoes for a chicken dinner.) She didn't feel that she was being judged as less of a wife or Catholic for making choices that kept her with her family. She said that her mother didn't have to deal with the independant woman advice at all (it didn't exist in her Southern Baptis world.) She helped at Sunday School and played cards with the neighborhood ladies (I bet there was cool food there!) That was it.
My mom and grandmother are two of the holiest woman and best wives/mothers I have ever known. I'm sure, like stef, I've been blessed to have been raised by them so am handing down what was handed to me so I have a confidence in my choices based on my experience. Fortunate me!
stefoodie wrote:
The loneliness and feeling outside the loop, I deal with by coming here:D -- when I feel down because of "the world", you all are my "tiramisu" (pick-me-up).
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Oh did this make me smile, stef! Thanks...I'm off to eat some chocolate .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Mary G
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Angie,
It may be that there is a strong apostolate that encourages this. I remember when we were in NC and then in SC, there was a particular apostolate group that, although purportedly for families actually split the family by having separate meetings for the moms, the dads and the kids ... I really didn't like that! I figure the more time I get to spend with my dh and the kids, the better for the family.
Maybe your friend needs to change parishes? Is she in a big town or a bitty town? Maybe there's someone on here that lives nearby who can help them out? We are all over and most states seem to be represented....
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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cvbmom
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I feel for your friend! I've been "attachment parenting" all along and not knowing it had a name . I just thought I was an oddball  . Nothing new to me, I suppose. I never could understand why "family" events, especially at churches insist upon splitting up families. My extended family thinks I homeschool because I can't deal with leaving the children 
Anyway, my once intensely shy 4 year old is now a very confident 8 year old...and I was told by well-meaning friends when he was 4, even 5, that I should send him to school to "socialize" him. In my opinion, it would have broken him. He's just fine, thanks.
Enough rambling, but what I am getting at is that if your friend ever needs something or if she's in Ohio and wants to visit, I'd love to help out!
God bless,
Christine
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teachingmyown
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Angie,
I have been in your friend's situation. She just needs to stand firm and charitably state that this is right for her family.
I have been encouraged to go on various events and weekend retreats. I have gone to some, often with a child, or if my toddler is older and happy to stay with dh, (some have been, some haven't), I have gone alone. I do benefit from a retreat, but never to the detriment of my children.
It is a very personal choice. I know some very holy women who do not attachment parent. They do leave the children to do things on their own. Their children are beautiful and "well-adjusted". On the other hand, it is entirely possible to grow in holiness without needing to separate from your family. Our apostolate right now is our families. Your friend needs to state this unapologetically to those who are urging her to step away from her family. There will be a time for other apostolates. There are also ways to serve while remaining with your children.
I enjoy a mom's night occassionally, or a Gospel Reflection, or something like that. But everyone who knows me knows that my little one will be with me. That is who I am.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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JodieLyn
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Holding onto what is right for your family is worth it. And it's amazing how after you've been doing it for a while how things start to open up.. for instance I did MOPS for a short time.. and they very specifically kept it open to homeschooled kids who were "too old".. and I was one of 3 homeschoolers there and the only one without kids old enough to leave the olders at home. And no one ever had a problem with me keeping my little one with me.
I think as people come to know you and start realizing that how you do things isn't a condemnation of how they do things they relax and as they realize that you aren't changing to fit the community, things will change to fit you a bit. At least they have here.
As far as friends go.. define it.. I have lots of people I'm friendly with.. some I'd be friends with but it's so hard here with limited time and travel distances. So.. I don't have any friends if you mean someone that I see regularly and visit back and forth and such.. though if it worked there are a couple that would love to meet me for coffee (something else for me) somewhere. But when one lives 30 min away and the other 2 are also homeschooling moms of many.. we talk when we see each other at other things.
As far as the benefits of attachment parenting.. when my children are ready for me to go without them and without it being daddy they're staying with.. usually around 2 yrs.. it's this wave over the shoulder as they're much to busy to say goodbye when we leave and "you're back already???" when we come back Even though we do that at most about twice a year.
My kids are attached to each other too.. the little ones will go to the bigger ones and the bigger ones comfort the little ones.. My 5 year old daughter is only 15 months older than my 4 year old son.. but she's always wanted to mother him.. here he is almost as big as she is.. and yet she'll pick him up if he's scraped a knee or such and comfort him.. and he lets her.. his toes may be dragging on the ground but her relaxed with her holding him totally trusting that she will. 
We've been blessed recently with finding a lacrosse club.. my kids are very suited to lacrosse as far as energy level required and lack of size not being a problem.. and my dh found he likes it.. and as a club it is open to everyone old enough to really start learning how to play (including the adults).. so my 3 oldest kids and dh are playing.. and the rest of us are watching but it's really nice that it's something that they get to play together.
I think prayer and keeping your eyes open for opportunities are the best bets.. and biding your time.
It seems to me when others are urging you to their way.. it's often not because they think your way is wrong so much as it is assuming that "everyone" is doing the same things you are.
As far as personal growth.. books, online.. all kinds of stuff.. people have been saints in eras when it was all they could do to get the food on the table let alone be galavanting off doing things for "personal fulfillment" so it's hardly necessary.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Betsy
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+JMJ+
I think I know all to well how your friend feels! I feel like I have weathered this storm and am finally at a place in my life where I am confident with my decisions and the outcomes! My ds are 6, 5, and 2!
When I first heard of “attachment parenting” I feel in love with the concept and knew that this was for me. I was young but totally convicted of this deliberate way to parent my first son. What I wasn’t prepared for was a VERY high needs first born son and the very unrelenting criticism that I would receive.
Not getting into to many of the details, almost everyone that knew criticized me for what I did. Because my son was high needs I was blamed for everything (i.e. he wouldn’t be like this if I didn’t nurse, co-sleep, sling him, pay attention to his needs, etc) And it didn’t help that their was an overwhelming population of Baby Wise parents at our Church at the time too. It was so difficult to keep positive during this time. There are too many stories to list everything, but a quick one was during a Saturday Morning Woman’s Retreat at our Parish I had brought my 18 month old baby with because he was still nursing and didn’t like it much when I left him. I stood with him in the back of the gymnasium and tried to keep him as quite as possible. After the first talk was over the woman putting on the retreat came back to me and asked me to leave. Her exact words were, “This is a Woman’s retreat NOT a Mother and Child retreat!” She then went on to say that she noticed the “looks of disgust from the people around her when ever he made any noise.” Needless to say I left in tears! I never did receive an apology, but she did call me later that evening to throw some salt on the wounds!
After many of these experiences…many of which took place with in feet of the Blessed Sacrament…I really with drew from Parish life. And I have often said if I didn’t have a stronger faith I would have been long gone from Catholicism!!!!
Now, the point of this isn’t to rehash all of the harsh words but to give your friend something to keep her positive and looking forward. After my second son was born 18 months later I hit an all time low with comments and burn out (i.e. tandem nursing, two babies still getting up at night, etc) This I would say was the hardest time of my life to date. It was a time that I really needed the support of mothers but got very little. Of coarse what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger!
Not that my fist son’s are older I can’t truly say it was all worth it, every single moment. I can say that my high needs infant and me have weathered the storm and is such a wonderful boy to be around. This same child that I couldn’t get a nice word about as an infant/toddler can’t stop getting complements right now. This same boy who “was being spoiled” is now “spoiling” his two year-old brother the same way! In fact this boy who I needed to “do something about right now or look out for when he’s 16” just impressed me this lent with how much he was willing to offered up! And his poor mother who needed to “get some alone time”, just did with her husband tonight!
Today, as a family we still don’t have many friends (not helped by two relocations in 2 years). But we are very close as a family. We enjoy being together and it’s only getting better with time. Sadly, though, we have learned to with draw from a lot of “main stream attention” whether in our Church or other areas. We allow our boys to be involved in sports, which provide a lot of interaction with peers even if they aren’t “friends” per se. As for myself, I have managed to find one close friend that I can call at a drop of a dime when I need a shoulder and have found email groups like this one.
Meditating on events in my life it really seems that Satan knows how to find our Achilles heel. For me I wanted to approval of the world in what I was doing. I got everything but that. But, I have grown a tremendous amount through these trials. I have learned a lot about human nature (i.e. if you do things differently than other people they take it as a personal attach, even if you don’t say a word!), and most importantly I have learned, or should say am learning, that our needs can only be me through Jesus. And that it where we need to be focusing!
I am a very poor writer, and truly had wished that I had paid more attention in my English classes in school, so I don’t know if this makes much sense. If you friend would like another person to talk to that has been their PM me and I would be happy to swap stories!
God Bless,
Betsy
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SaraP
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My kids are still small, but I can't tell you how grateful I am to my parents for "attachment parenting" ME!
Obviously I don't remember much about how I felt when I was really tiny, but I do remember a visceral, physical sense of my parents' love for me that protected me through adolescence and guided me in choosing a husband and made the transition to parenthood so much less of a struggle than it could have been otherwise.
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Mama to six on earth, two in heaven and two waiting in Russia. Foxberry Farm Almanac
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chicken lady
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Angie, you tell your friend that is crazy This really iritates me, and I don't know if I'm AP! YOu know I don't like the whole label thing My point is people need to feel secure, and when you do something different, they feel the need to correct you to justify their chioces. Quite common actually, I don't think it is intended, but just the same totally inappropriate! I will pray to St Raphael to send her friends, in the mean time tell her she can have us as friends, we are weird but not dangerous
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monalisa
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We have 2 kids. I have a similar situation but with family, not friends. Most of our friends AP or at least respect AP. But our extended family really can't handle it sometimes. In our case, I really do believe that people who see us AP often feel guilty about the way they are dealing with their own kids. My mom has a lot of guilt about how she parented, and now I see her trying to give me "advice" as a way to appease her conscience. I listen politely to critics, but I often just don't even respond. I change the subject and vent to a trusted friend or dh later. As we go on, both dh and I become more convicted about what we'redoing and that makes it so much easier to ignore critics- even critics who happen to be priests, MILs, mom, and our big sisters- LOL!
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Willa
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I was AP when I didn't know what it is. DH and I found out about it by experience of what seemed to work best and make us most in tune with what our kids needed. We too had 3 kids ages 3 down, when #3 was an infant. Only later did I go to LLL and find out all the terminology.
I had a small crisis about it when I started homeschooling and read the arguments about AP being "humanistic" and leading to selfish kids. I discerned and prayed and by that got confidence it was the best path for us. Still believe it was the best decision for us, though not critical of others who have found a different range of methods.
Dh being on the same page, relatives and friends having pretty good boundaries, and now you all have made it easier. Now we have older kids and have that corroboration (they turned out law-abiding, concerned about others, pretty self-disciplined and all that) that we are doing it "right", at least for our temperaments.
I don't tend to want to proselytize to others about our methods, so I don't mention them much unless it comes up or when I know I am talking to a "kindred spirit". I think good friends will ask questions of each other and sometimes perhaps second-guess each others parenting in a constructive way, but too much criticism shows a lack of boundaries IMO. SO DH and I just dismiss the subject or move to something else if a conversation goes towards that (most of the time, it doesn't). "Thanks for the advice; will you please pass that bean dip? What about this weather? " You know. OUr methods are part of who we are as parents, and our parenting comes from our sacramental matrimonial graces. It is not really up for grabs in a conversation, though we don't mind sharing what works or what our experience has been, and we don't mind learning from the way others do things.
I hear what your friend is saying about loneliness and that can be hard. Many of my closest friends are long distance. Where we live, large families, homeschooling, and AP and practicing Catholicism are not the norm. WE have a few friends in our area who know us and respect how we do things. There was a lonely time in my life when Aidan's health issues together with our other oddities REALLY seemed to close us off from the community. It was hard. I prayed to find some support if that was God's will, and He led us to a few people. Just a couple of people -- even older people -- around to give you some affirmation and kindness -- can make a big difference. Keep your heart open to options and offer your discouragements to God, and He will send what you need, has been my experience.
"Getting away as a couple" has always seemed like a bogus necessity to us. It is such conventional wisdom but where did it come from? Did the Ingalls parents zip off to a retreat on the coast? Did St Therese's parents? (I know her mom went to morning mass sometimes before the children were awake). I guess I can see that nuclear families of today don't get the parenting respites that were more built in, in the days when there were servants and relatives around to fill in the gaps. But still, I don't really like solutions that depend on having extra money in the budget and a weaned child. That seems artificial to me.
DH and I started the concept of "mini-getaways" when Aidan was in the hospital and oldest ds was old enough to watch the older set of kids for a few minutes. We'd get a coffee together or go for a short walk. Lets us connect. The babies and very little ones come with us. When we lived in a parish that had Perpetual Adoration, we would "spell" each other watching the babies while the other went to their hour of Adoration of the Sacrament. My husband's hour was at midnight and mine was at 8 am on Saturday, so on Saturdays he'd get up and feed and keep the babies busy so I could go. Details differ for everyone but there is usually some solution that works with AP and doesn't cause stress or too much expense.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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Jess
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I know this thread is a little older, but I was wondering what attachment parenting is defined as. I can kind of get it from earlier posts but not entirely. could some one give me the basics?
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God bless,
Jess
+JMJ+
wife to dh('96)
mama to dd(13), dd(11), ds(9), dd(6), and dd (2), and baby girl born Sept 14!
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Anne McD
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I can say that my husband and I are not truly attachment parenting, and I don't think that it is ours to be. However, over the past couple of years, we have grown closer as a family as we have spent more and more time together, and relishing, not resisiting or resenting that time.
That being said, my dh and I HAVE to get out by oursevles or with each other from time to time. However, I hate it when my kids spend the night at Grandma's, and I ended up turning down a trip away with dh for a few days b/c I just couldn't leave the kids.
We don't not co sleep on purpouse, but more often than not, we have a little one join us at night. However, its sometimes tough to sleep and they are either returned to bed or I head for the couch (soooo comfy!! ) Besides, when my oldest was six months old, I brought him to bed with me after a midnight feeding, and woke up on top of him. I literally had to shake him awake and it was the scariest thing ever. At the same time, there is nothing sweeter than curling up with a baby to nurse and drift off to sleep with in the middle of the day.
Can I be more of a fence sitter??
All this being said (so sorry for the history!!), I wonder about discipline. There are times where I wonder if I had AP more, if I'd have an easier go at it with the kids. My oldest is very strong willed, and at the moment, my second in command yells at me the instant I don't respond to him. I'm wondering, in the wisdom of those who have AP for some time, has my behavior/attention towards my kids attributed to this? I know every family, every child is different, but at ages 4 and 5, I am afraid of spoiling them, but I guess I don't know when I should or shouldn't say no? I now try to not refuse my 5yo when he asks me to cuddle up with him at bedtime, but I wonder if I've missed the boat with him elsewhere? Right now, I have a two year old screaming in her crib b/c she won't stay in her big girl bed, after she was the perfect sleeper before we made the switch. I'm going up now to rock her and put her down again, but I can't let her stay up as long as she wants to (11pm usually!!) and when my husband gets back from work soon, I want to spend time with him.
I hope I'm not taking over the thread??
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Anne
Wife to Jon
Mommy to Alex 9
James 8
Katie 6
William 3 1/2
Benedict Joseph 1
and baby on the way! 10/14
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monalisa
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We pretty much AP- you can use one or two or all the aspects of AP. It's not an all or nothing proposition. Check out ANY book by Dr. Sears- The Baby Book, The Attachment Parenting Book, The Fussy Baby Book. Dr. Sears (www.askdrsears.com) isn't Catholic, but a very faithful Christian. In all his books I've only found one little point where I disagreed with him from a Catholic perspective. And that was an older edition, the new edition had fixed that problem. ALSO- Gregory Popchak (sp?) has a book called Parenting with Grace, sort of an apologetics on AP. It is full of Papal writings, saints writings in defense of AP. He doesn't say you MUST AP, just that it is one valid and beautiful way to parent as a Catholic- it is a really great book.
On another note, in our local Catholic hs group, there are several large AP families, and some of them even have grown children my age (25) with kids of their own, and they all turned out beautiful, productive, faithful Catholics and loving parents- definitely not spoiled, selfish, etc. :).
We do have 2 beds pushed together in one room so our 3 yo and our 3 mo old can both sleep with us. Check out the book Nighttime Parenting by Dr. Sears for tons of excellent info on safe co-sleeping. My best friend has co-slept for 28 years (8 daughters and counting) and has never overlayed one of them. We'v coslept for over 3 years and never had any problems. If you want baby in bed and you are really worried, you could try a co-sleeper ( I have one, they are quite nice), or a Snugglenest, available at Target etc.- it's a litlle soft box that you put in the bed- the side prevent you from rolling over on the baby. I sleep with baby's head resting in the crook of my elbow, with a pillow behind my back and a little one behind baby's back to keep her facing me all snug. Pillows to supprt your body really help mom comfortably nurse off to sleep. La Leche League, the Couple to Couple League, and the real life example/ experiences of other Catholic AP families have really helped us be happy APers.
O, and if cosleeping is not right for you, check out Elizabeth Pantley's The No-Cry Sleep Solution- it has gentle ideas for parenting your baby/ child to sleep without sharing a bed. Some of my La Leche League friends use this book and it is a good one- requires a little more effort than the whole family just snuggling down for sleep, but much gentler than letting anyone cry themselves to sleep. (That's coming from a grown-up who cried herself to sleep as a child :).)
In our experience, AP does pretty much need the support of both parents. Dr. Sears' book Becoming a Father is great.
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Jess
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Joined: July 25 2006
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| Posted: April 19 2007 at 7:33am | IP Logged
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Ok, I co-sleep with my 6 week old and I do what you do by having her sleep in the crook of my arm. She won't sleep anywhere else. Our 3 yr old frequently comes in during the night too, but not always. She shares a bed with one of her big sisters. So is it mainly just being with your kids as much as possible, like not leaving them with other people? I carry the baby in a moby wrap a lot and she basically will only be happy with me. Thanks for the book suggestions. I was just curious as to what AP was and if I was AP and didn't know it
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God bless,
Jess
+JMJ+
wife to dh('96)
mama to dd(13), dd(11), ds(9), dd(6), and dd (2), and baby girl born Sept 14!
star cottage
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: the attachment calling
