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Maryan
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| Posted: March 28 2007 at 8:41pm | IP Logged
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VA just passed a law (effective immediately) that a child must be in a booster until age 8.
I have a 5 seater 99 Dodge Minivan -- is it possible to get three boosters across the back???  When I use a measuring tape to measure my boosters -- I seem to be trying to do the impossible. I know some people can afford to just buy a bigger car, but with the cost of the car and the gas -- that's just not an option. I often take an extra kid to the library etc. and won't be able to do that if I can't figure out the carseats.
If you have been able to get three across in an economy minivan (not the wider deluxe models) -- can you name the seats that you're using???
I was looking at this thread for advice, but didn't see a solution.
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Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
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Angi
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| Posted: March 28 2007 at 8:50pm | IP Logged
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I have 3 carseats across the back of my Caravan (2000) sport (more narrow). 3 Graco TurboBoosters should work (~$45 each at WalMart).
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angiesherm
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| Posted: March 28 2007 at 8:57pm | IP Logged
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Hi, just want to make sure that you know that you aren't supposed to use a booster seat (the ones you use w/just the car seatbelt) w/just a lapbelt. I don't know if you have three shoulder belts in the backseat or not, but be careful. I have a Yukon and only have a lap belt in my middle seat and it's very dangerous to use just the lapbelt! Just an FYI! Check w/your nearest fire station if you have questions about the safety. My husband actually ran a call once (he's a paramedic) where a child was just buckled in a lapbelt and he had very bad internal injuries. It just doesn't properly secure a child w/out the shoulder harness.
Take care,
Angela
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Angela in KS.,
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Jen L.
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| Posted: March 28 2007 at 9:38pm | IP Logged
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You might have a reprieve from figuring this out. I know the Washington Post reported that the law takes effect immediately, but the Richmond Times-Dispatch says it goes into effect July 1st. This is the usual date the law changes and also the date it changed last time when the booster seat law was changed to age six.
I'll keep looking.
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Jen
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guitarnan
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I have a couple of booster seats (just the low-end variety) that are gathering dust in my garage now that dd is 9. If anyone in MD, VA or WV is interested, PM me and I'll measure them; we could meet up somewhere and I'll donate them to your worthy cause.
I know this is a tricky fit; when I was a daycare provider, I had a very hard time with three car seats and a booster seat in my Ford Windstar van.
We wound up buying an extra booster seat in WV a couple of years ago when they passed a law like this; we had a German booster seat for dd (from our years in Italy) but it didn't meet US standards.
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Jen L.
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| Posted: March 28 2007 at 10:01pm | IP Logged
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The Fairfax County sheriff's dept website (here) also says the law goes into effect July 1, 2007
(It also states that "ALL rear-facing infant seats MUST be placed in the back seat of a vehicle. In the event the vehicle does not have a back seat, the rear-facing infant seat may be placed in the front passenger seat ONLY if the vehicle is either not equipped with a passenger side airbag or the passenger side airbag has been deactivated.")
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Jen
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"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 28 2007 at 10:44pm | IP Logged
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It works best if the seats are not identical. Put the youngest child in the middle.. their seat is most likely able to be put in with just a lap belt (if not don't put a child in that spot).. the graco turbo boosters are fairly narrow.. and you should be able to squeeze them in next to each other.
It's a pain for buckling them in but it will work.
I had 3 internal harness seats across the back seat of our '97 (or was it '98) windstar and two booster in the middle seat.. before we got our 15 pass. van.
Basically you wedge them in.. and they shift and the edges overlap a bit and such.. so that the measurement isn't quite so strict as measuring the seats would give.
I've just heard rumors of Oregon going to the 8 year mark.. makes no difference to me since my 10 year old doesn't fit in the seat without the booster yet anyway 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 29 2007 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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No advice, but how did you hear about this, Maryan? I'm so clueless when it comes to car seats. My big goal this week is to move him to the next size, and I don't even know what kind it is or what I'm talking about. Is there a car seat 101 that all you moms took that I'm unaware?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Bookswithtea
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I don't get it. The majority of states are 4 and 40, but I know PA is 8 and 80 (we visit relatives there and I always worry about getting pulled over because my 7 yr old is not in a car seat).
Is it actually unsafe to follow the 4 and 40 guidelines? Is that why states are making the laws stricter?
Does anyone know if you have to check out the car seat laws every time you cross a state line to make sure you are complying???
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Jen L.
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| Posted: March 29 2007 at 10:09am | IP Logged
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Some links that I've found useful over the years...
Car seat compatiblity
The same website is full of information
Consumer Search - Convertible seats
Consumer Search - Booster seats
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Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
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Jen L.
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| Posted: March 29 2007 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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Books,
This website specifically says that you do have to follow the law of whatever state you are traveling. They also have a helpful map of the various age requirements (doesn't have Virginia's update but it hasn't taken effect yet anyway)
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Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
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Maryan
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| Posted: March 29 2007 at 11:31am | IP Logged
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Ladies - thanks for all the links and advice! Going to spend naptime working on it all!
Jen L. wrote:
| You might have a reprieve from figuring this out. I know the Washington Post reported that the law takes effect immediately, but the Richmond Times-Dispatch says it goes into effect July 1st. This is the usual date the law changes and also the date it changed last time when the booster seat law was changed to age six. |
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Good to know -- and JennGM, my homeschooling group sent out an e-mail about the Post article for an FYI, so that's how I heard.
Bookswithtea wrote:
| Is it actually unsafe to follow the 4 and 40 guidelines? Is that why states are making the laws stricter? |
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I'm sure other ladies could speak strongly about this, but right now I'm motivated by fear of a $50 ticket and someone calling me "irresponsible." I HEAR that 4'9" is the "safe" height. My oldest is only 4' right now.
On another note - my mom thinks that these seat belt laws are a conspiracy on the part of the car seat industry and anti-large family lobbyists. While I'm not sure about her theory, I'm not sure what the odds are of 1) first getting in a car accident and 2) having a serious enough accident that a seat belt doesn't work. I realize freaky things happen - but freaky things also happen with seat belts. Would I be able to live with the knowledge that a freaky thing happened that I could have prevented maybe with a different seat? That's a whole other discussion!
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Maryan
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JodieLyn
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Here's the way it works.. if the child's knees don't reach the edge of the seat.. the odds are very high that the child will slide forward in the seat until their knees can bend.. when they do that.. the lap portion of ANY seatbelt WILL slide up off their hips onto their tummy (whether it's held down while just sitting isn't the issue.. when the child is thrown forward in an accident it will slide up on their tummy if they've slid forward like that.
That means instead of just being held in place and hopefully uninjured.. even if nothing else happens.. that child could have massive internal injuries from the seatbelt.
Whether the car manufacturers should be made to provide the seats.. I mean.. they advertise their products for FAMILY use.. but then it's not safe for a family to use without adding stuff??? well.. that's a different discussion.
http://www.carseat.org
Has some good information.. on how the child should fit in the car seat before letting them ride without a booster.
Laws are an IMPERFECT way to try and keep children safe in vehicles. After all.. they give weight and age laws when the critical point is neither weight nor age.. but height.. and within that.. the length of the upper leg to the width of the seat in the vehicle they're in.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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JodieLyn
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Carseat Ease of Use Ratings
I find this website to be an excellent help. Somewhat for their "ease of use ratings" but more specifically.. they give the weight and height limits on the seats.. so I have one place I can go and look over what fits my requirements (my kids outgrow in height long before weight and I don't even consider age.. my 10 yr old easily still fits in a booster - and that's where she is law or no law because it's where she fits best for safety)
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Bookswithtea
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[QUOTE=JodieLyn] Here's the way it works.. if the child's knees don't reach the edge of the seat.. the odds are very high that the child will slide forward in the seat until their knees can bend.. when they do that.. the lap portion of ANY seatbelt WILL slide up off their hips onto their tummy (whether it's held down while just sitting isn't the issue.. when the child is thrown forward in an accident it will slide up on their tummy if they've slid forward like that.
[QUOTE]
Wow...I had no idea! This web site is really informative. I printed out the 5 step test to see if a child is ready to be out of a booster and will test it on my 7 yr old (the others are still in car seats, of course). My kids are very tall, so I wonder sometimes about the age ratings, when my kids are often a lot taller than their age mates.
Thanks again.
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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kingvozzo
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| Posted: March 29 2007 at 10:17pm | IP Logged
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Maryan wrote:
I know some people can afford to just buy a bigger car, but with the cost of the car and the gas -- that's just not an option. I often take an extra kid to the library etc. and won't be able to do that if I can't figure out the carseats.
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This is not an option for most of us...It does seem to me that the more restrictive car seat laws are anti-family. the law in TX changed in 2005, but it had an explicit exception to requiring even a seat belt if there were too many people. IE, you could have 6 people in your car, even if you only had 5 seat belts. Otherwise, the gov't would be dictating the size of your family based on whether you could afford a big car or not. I don't see a similar exception in the current TX law.
In CT, the law requires booster seats till the child is 6 years old AND 60 lbs. My oldest will be 9 in 3 weeks and he's barely 50 lbs, so he's still in a booster.
I've also often wondered about traveling inter-state. NJ has very restrictive laws (up to 80 lbs, I believe). I have to believe that most police would just give a warning for that type of infraction if you're from out of state. Otherwise, that would just be crazy! They would always be picking on the out-of-staters!
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Philothea
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Get backless boosters for the older kids and you won't have a problem fitting everyone in. They're also cheaper.
My son is in a Sunshine Kids Radian65, which has a 5pt harness and will accomodate him up to 49" and 65 pounds, and it is VERY narrow, you can easily fit 3 across. But it's a $200 seat. He's an only child, so we can afford that. He's also a tall 2 year old, so I don't feel comfortable moving him out of a 5 pt harness yet, even though he's big enough.
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JennGM
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Philothea wrote:
Get backless boosters for the older kids and you won't have a problem fitting everyone in. They're also cheaper.
My son is in a Sunshine Kids Radian65, which has a 5pt harness and will accomodate him up to 49" and 65 pounds, and it is VERY narrow, you can easily fit 3 across. But it's a $200 seat. He's an only child, so we can afford that. He's also a tall 2 year old, so I don't feel comfortable moving him out of a 5 pt harness yet, even though he's big enough. |
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I got the impression that you must have 5 point harness until a certain age AND weight.
I just spent a good portion of my day evaluating and sweating over a purchase of a 5 point harness booster. First of all, there are few out there. And am I just a victim of marketing that I worry if I don't buy the one with all the bells and whistles touted to be the safest that I'm endangering my child's life? The Britax one is a mighty fine carseat, that will probably last him forever, especially since the laws will change and require boosters until they are 13 or something!  But the price tag is just too much, even knowing that I'm only having to buy one.
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Jen L.
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My understanding is that a 5 point is required until 40 pounds and that is what most 5 point booster/car seat combos are rated for. I just read that there are special "husky" seats that have 80 pound 5 point harnesses if you want to keep the child safer longer. (5 points are safer for everyone, really - think race car drivers)
And Jenn, please don't stress out about the seat - you definitely don't have to spend $2-300 to make your boy safe. Those marketers 
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Jen
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Philothea
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Age 2 is "legal" to ride in a booster using the shoulder belt. I think the weight limit is under 40 pounds because my neighbor's kid is in a regular booster and he's shorter than Ian and around the same weight (34 pounds). His mom goes to the carseat inspections at the police station regularly, so she'd know if she were in violation. I won't move my son even though he is well over the minimum requirements for a booster, just because I know he's safer in a 5pt. But if I were going to buy a regular booster, I think the Compass booster is the nicest non-5pt on the market right now. It's at Target for $69, too. Very good price and it is a sturdy seat.
Britax makes a great seat, we had a Roundabout when Ian was smaller that is now in my husband's car for occasional use. (I also use it for airline travel because even at 14 pounds it is far lighter than the Radian, which is extremely heavy due to its steel frame.) But the main reason seats like the Britax and Radian cost more are the convenience features, not the safety features. All carseats have to pass the safety tests, so you are not endangering anyone's life by buying a less expensive seat ... you're just giving up some nice features like extra padding, easier adjustments and installation, and nicer fabrics.
The only huge variations in safety are between rear-facing and front-facing, and then again between 5pt and 3pt harnesses or seatbelts. Within the same class of carseat, there shouldn't be any major safety differences since they all have to pass the same testing. So don't worry about that. Just keep one ear out for recalls, and I will note that even Britax has had some recalls, so no seat is immune to potential problems!
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Car seat help!
