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Bella
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| Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 2:22am | IP Logged
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In another thread, I mentioned that I was following a Bio-Identical Hormone Treatment protocol,called the Wiley Protocol. I was working with a WP certified MD.(I am 3.5 yrs post complete hysterectomy.)
I am posting this 11 months later,as I wanted to give you all an update.
I am NO LONGER FOLLOWING THE WILEY PROTOCOL. Over this HOPE-FILLED Christmas Holiday, we found out that I am suffering from PROGESTERONE OVERDOSE.
I have stopped this protocol, and changing doctors,yet I am dedicated to natural hormone replacement.
Here are some good reads for anyone in my situation,or anyone in peri,post, or menopause.......
Authors.....
Dr.Uzzi Reiss
Dr.Elizabeth Lee Vliet
Dr. Hotze
For the Catholic......I have yet to find a doctor in the USA,or ANY book, that addresses All Things Hormones,w/o discussing BCPs for some health situations. I have concluded, that on this topic only, I cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Also. I previously praised a book called _S*x,Lies,and Menopause_
I can no longer recommend this book-the protocols mentioned in the back of the book, are downright dangerous.....even with the guidance of a Medical Doctor.
I am profoundly sorry, for listing that book,and I pray that NOONE has endured ill effects from reading and applying it.
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Peace and Blessings,
Bella
Wife and Mom to my sweeties!
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Chari
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| Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 10:57am | IP Logged
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Thanks for the heads-up, Bella!
Keeping you in my prayers!
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Chari...Take Up & Read
Dh Marty 27yrs...3 lovely maidens: Anne 24, Sarah 20 & Maddelyn 17 and 3 chivalrous sons: Matthew 22, Garrett 16 & Malachy 11
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LisaR
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| Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 2:02pm | IP Logged
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Bella, this is so interesting!! I've mentioned elsewhere that I was so very frustrated with Dr Hilgers and Paul 6 institute, that they wanted to pump me full of progesterone, and I KNEW something else had to be wrong with me- I wanted to get to the root of the problem, kwim, and still feel this way across the board- what makes so many women "need" progesterone, ??!!
anyway, while I still do take progesterone, natural, bioidentical, it is not to the degree nor amount that "they" wanted me to take.
I'm under the care of 4 different docs, and we have figured out a moderated doseage.
however, for me, the low progesterone is the result of an auto immune disorder, resulting in severe endocrine malfunctions, coupled by a bleeding and clotting disorder.
praying for you, and encouraging ALL women to get 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions, even if it takes money and time!!
PS, the issue of progesterone hormones being passed along through breastmilk to babies, especially boys, is another topic, and issue, but a real danger in and of itself...
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Bella
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| Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 10:14pm | IP Logged
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Lisa,
Thank you, for sharing your experience. I know Dr. Hilgers is a well respected doctor,and has helped countless women(and babies!),but this just proves,that each woman's needs are so unique, and we really have to know our bodies WELL,and ALWAYS be informed enough to be our best advocate. Doctors are in business for money. Yes, there are many doctors,who really,really care about their patients,and want the very best for them. Unfortunately, there is just so much time in a busy doctor's schedule, to allow proper research and careful consideration of every single patient.
I think when Dr. Lee's books about natural progesterone became popular, a lot of good AND bad came from it all. The learning curve is huge,and un fortunately, most doctors are learning right beside the patient-even the so called specialists!
I am so glad you listened to your body, and kept searching for a good fit. Your approach-having four doctors-is like mine is....I call them my "team!" And, because I can be quite the fiesty patient-and ask a lot of questions, and do my own research, I have butted heads with some big doctor egos(sp?)!    I think we really have to look at doctors in a business-like manner. I hire a doctor, and if I find they really are not a good fit for me,I fire them. I've learned this the hard way, for sure.
I will keep you in my prayers.
Chari-Thank you!! 
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Peace and Blessings,
Bella
Wife and Mom to my sweeties!
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Chari
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| Posted: Jan 03 2009 at 12:33am | IP Logged
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Bella wrote:
I think we really have to look at doctors in a business-like manner. I hire a doctor, and if I find they really are not a good fit for me,I fire them. I've learned this the hard way, for sure.
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Bella....this is what I teach my patients!
(I am a nurse.) People have such a hard time believing this.
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Chari...Take Up & Read
Dh Marty 27yrs...3 lovely maidens: Anne 24, Sarah 20 & Maddelyn 17 and 3 chivalrous sons: Matthew 22, Garrett 16 & Malachy 11
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LLMom
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| Posted: Jan 03 2009 at 10:55am | IP Logged
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Bella,
How did you find out you have progesterone overdose? I think I have low progesterone (and the reason for my miscarriages) and I have read Dr. Lee's book and use progesterone cream. Do you know where you can find the symptoms of progesterone overdose or how to tell? I want to find a balance but not overdo.
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Lisa
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Anneof 5
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Yes, I want to know how you know also. I am using a compounded formula by prescription for perimenopausal symptoms. I know blood tests can vary from day to day so it can be hard to know levels, etc. I am being followed by a nurse practioner who specializes in this and so far I have trusted her knowledge on this.
Thanks!
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Bella
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| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 10:26pm | IP Logged
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Lisa and Anne,here is a (albeit long!) list of symptoms from Progesterone Overdose.
My only evidence so far, is from a symptom journal that I keep,and a conversation with a regular and compounding pharmacist. Both pharmacists said the dosages I was taking(more than 1000mg in just one day),combined with my reactions=overdose. One of the pharmacists went so far to even say the levels I was taking day after day, were at a toxic level. I belive it! I was soo sick,we almost called 911! Within 48 hours of me stopping the progesterone, I started feeling much better. Admittedly, I am concerned about the long term effects, and will be addressing this with my doctor,whom I will-soon- no longer be seeing, of course.
I really hope I haven't alarmed anyone here. I was 39 when I had a hysterectomy and oophorectomy(both ovaries out),and have been searching ever since, to find the correct Hormone Replacement Therapy. I think in my first post,I forgot to include the word,REPLACEMENT.
Lisa-for my pregnancies, I was given progesterone shots for the first trimester,as I believe the reason was simply that I was at high risk for miscarriage.
Anne-You are right that blood tests can vary from day to day-even throughout different times of the day! It sounds like you are in good hands-but I do urge you to stay informed about perimenopause hormone therapies. I have done so much reading in the last several days,my head is spinning. If I were in your shoes, Imay ask the nurse practitioner about also taking a saliva test on the same day as a blood test-just for comparisson sakes.
I want to just say(if I didn't already), that this protocol I was following, is considered radical-I doubt your average compounding Pharmacist would even know about it. Oh, who knows, maybe. I was desperate,and tried something I was told was cutting edge. I felt a responsiblity to go to the sites where I had stated that i was doing this protocol, and give my update.
I also want to say, that what I have learned, is that it is sooo important to really listen to my body, and stand up for myself, when I feel like I am being held hostage to a cookie cutter lab test. I want a doctor that will consider labs,but also look at my SYMPTOMS.
PROGESTERONE OVERDOSE SYMPTOMS
*immune suppression (all kinds of viruses, herpes, flu, etc) See Formby interview for discussion of immune suppression
*weak lungs and coughing
*depression (some women reported suicidal depression)
*sleepiness all day
*feeling sedated
*anxiety
*heart palpitations
*liver pain
*sore dry vagina
*loss of sex drive
*brain fog - some women reported being unable to drive
*extreme irritability
*mental lapses
*sore dry eyes
*sore joints
*sore muscles
*sores in mouth
*constipation
*incontinence
*yeast infection
*excessive edema up to the waist - so extreme women needed new shoes and clothes
*dry chapped itchy skin
*aching neck
*dehydration
*kidney pains and possible stones
*insulin resistance
*high blood sugar
*cravings and runaway appetite
*weight gain
*headaches upon waking
*unusual headaches
*balding - male pattern hair loss especially with the hairline change like a T - hair falling out to the extreme - no new hair growing in
*very dry hair
*sleep disturbances
*thickening in the waist, belly fat
*extreme thirst! Guzzling water.
* extreme urgency to urinate frequently
*itching
*facial hair, whiskers and fuzzy face during P phase, lasting longer each month
*loss of strength
*acne and hives
*moon face and puffiness
*deep tissue breast pain and heaviness
*nipple soreness
* eruptions at lymph node areas, groin, armpit, sides of abdomen
*awful progesterone smell from our armpits, smell of progesterone in our nose
*second trimester pregnancy tummy sticking out.
LINEA NEGRA
The hormone levels on the WP are so high (pregnancy levels) that several women reported developing linea negra which shows up on women in pregnancy.
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Peace and Blessings,
Bella
Wife and Mom to my sweeties!
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LisaR
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| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 10:32pm | IP Logged
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oh wow!! i've had some of those symptoms with taking ONLY 100 mg compounded natural progesterone.
it really makes sense, thanks for sharing all of this.
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Anneof 5
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| Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 2:29pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Bella. Gosh, I have some of these symptoms too. The worst has been weight gain (dr says insulin resistance) around the middle and inability to lose it no matter what I do. I take 200mg/gm (I think!)compounded prog. and take 1/8 teaspoon in am and 1/4 teaspoon at night. Not sure how much that turns out to be.
They do not always test levels when I go in yearly and the time they did it was within normal range. But they increased it last time based on my symptoms. 
Where did you get the overdose symptom list? They will want to know when I ask. They only list a very few symptoms and most of these are new to me but very interesting to find out about.
Thanks for the warning!
Anne
Edited to add- how do you lower the dosage reasonably to avoid the old symptoms you took it for? I would not want to go off totally.
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Bella
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| Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 3:55pm | IP Logged
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Anne- I will PM you,tonight. I will say, that whomever is prescribing the progesterone, should also be testing your blood serum levels *at least* every 3-6 months,IMO.
~~~~~
The thing about this overdose "symptom list", is that if you were to put it side by side symptom lists for severe PMS,Perimenopause,Menopause,Thyroid Disorders,Adrenal Disorders,and even Excessive Estrogen, you will see a lot of overlap in symptoms.
For me, it was the HUGE redflags-the symptoms above and beyond, that got my attention real fast.
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Peace and Blessings,
Bella
Wife and Mom to my sweeties!
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LLMom
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| Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 4:35pm | IP Logged
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Some of these symptoms are the same for low progesterone so the only way to tell would be testing, right?
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Lisa
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Bella
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| Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 9:06pm | IP Logged
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Lisa,
You are right. Yes, it's*regular* testing, along with a daily chart/journal of any/all symptoms. So, symptoms WITH lab work, to determine the right hormonal approach.
It just becomes sooooo confusing, as the Endocrine system is soooo complex,especially with females, and *most* doctors are learning, right along with you, the patient.
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Peace and Blessings,
Bella
Wife and Mom to my sweeties!
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4Real Forums : St. Anne's Tearoom: Growing in Wisdom over 40
Topic: All things hormones.
