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Nina Murphy
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...but I wanted to thank you all for the discussion of the Slave of Mary question and I discovered this AM the thread has since been closed.
(Something is wrong with my cookies function and I have not been getting mails I should be getting.)
Thank you, Katherine and Anne, for your responses to my question and perhaps we can return to the "slave" metaphor later.
God bless all.
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aussieannie
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Would like to do this too Nina - I would like to discuss the passage I found last night with those who are studing the True Devotion. I am still a bit awe struck by it still....
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Nina Murphy
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Yes, love it. Thank you again for it. 
Well, hopefully we can revisit it....very important, I think. 
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Helen
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Nina, I hope you don't mind but I changed the name of this thread to reflect the question of
"Slave of Mary."
Let's bring Anne's find from .Catholic Culture here as well:
Catholic Culture wrote:
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As the Fathers never tired of retelling, Eve had ruined us by disobedience. Now, at the beginning of the restoration, all is obedience. Mary looked to the depths of her soul. She, the blessed among women, the one full of grace, the only one conceived immaculate, the Mother of God-what is her reaction? "Behold the handmaid of the Lord!" The word handmaid is but a poor translation of the original Greek word doule. For to us the word handmaid means merely a hired servant. But doule meant a slave girl. Here is an obedient humility to balance the proud disobedience of Eve. Mary had just been raised to the peak of all creation, yet she replies by calling herself a slave girl: "Be it done to me according to thy word." Heaven itself waited in obedience for this obedience. For, as St. Thomas Aquinas tells us, "At the Annunciation, the Virgin was asked to give her consent in the name of the whole human race." The world had been created by the fiat of the Word of God. Now the beginning of the recreation in grace is ushered in by the fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum of the one who calls herself the slave of the Lord.
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I'll just say for me, and perhaps others who follow the charism of St. Maximilian Kolbe, I've jumped right over slave and gone to "docile instrument" and "property." 
St. Bernadette referred to herself as the broom of Our Lady - used for awhile for the purpose of Our Lady's apparitions and then put away and not used any longer.
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BrendaPeter
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On St. Josephine Bakhita's feastday this past Thursday, we watched the movie "The Two Suitcases" about her life. Since then I've been thinking about slavery. From the beginning of time, slavery has existed, and I assume it will until the end of time. Did St. Louis use this term because it's something we can so easily identify with? I'm not sure.
My only guess is that it must be tied to obedience, i.e. how we can find our happiness in being the perfectly obedient "slave" of Our Mother.
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BrendaPeter
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Another thought Helen - In our MIM formation meetings, Fr. Elias has mentioned that St. Maximilian Kolbe took St. Louis de Montfort's idea of being a slave to Our Lady one step further, the idea being that to be her slave was not enough. Perhaps you or someone else might be able to elaborate.
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Nina Murphy
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As a side note, in a book I have retelling Mary's Life according to the Mystics (I can't remember the name now!)--she refers to St. Joseph as her "master"---that she lived from the moment she was betrothed to him to see him in this light and to serve him (as God's Will).
Of course, this is private revelation, but it startled me when I first meditated on that if that was true, and she was being a model for us as women, then we were to view our husbands the same way and be *their* "handmaids" in this similar attitude of subjugation?
How do we model her *handmaid* prototype, how do we translate it into our personal life and living out of our Consecration to the Two Hearts, how are *we* slaves----can we be without being misunderstood, without negative pychological and relational repercussions in this day and age?
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BrendaPeter
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I just had the privilege of speaking on the phone with Fr. Elias, a priest with the FFI.. Please dear Mother of God, I pray that I can do SOME justice to what he said!
According to Fr. Elias, in order to understand the term "slave" as used by St. Louis de Montfort, we need to get away from the negative concept of slavery as seen in the early history of the U.S. When we study slavery throughout history, we see that slavery was not always considered to be a "bad" thing. Even St. Paul said that slaves should be obedient to their masters. To be a slave of Our Lady and Our Lord is to be a slave of love. As someone mentioned earlier, the term "handmaid" also means slave.
In comparison with St. Louis de Montfort, St. Maximilian talked more about being Our Lady's "possession" vs. being her slave. When we are in love we are possessed in a sense by another person, which is the type of possession St. Maximilian was referring to. He also made the observation that souls can be possessed by Satan, so why can't Our Lady possess a soul?
St. Maximilian Kolbe also talks about how when we give our free will over to Our Lady, we are not "killing" our will. Instead we are allowing Our Lady's will to be transubstantiated into ours. The beauty is that we are the winners - i.e., we give over our will but Our Lady gives us much, much more.
Lastly Fr. mentioned that it is essential to be consecrated to Our Lady in some way and essentially we all are as part of our baptism. Our consecration is a direct order from Our Lord when he said "Behold your mother."
I guess the main thing to keep in mind is that when it comes to being a slave, the particular master makes all the difference in the world. Would Our Mother ever treat as as anything less than human?
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Paula in MN
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BrendaPeter wrote:
| Lastly Fr. mentioned that it is essential to be consecrated to Our Lady in some way and essentially we all are as part of our baptism. |
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Now I am really confused. Are you saying that when we are baptised we are consecrated to Mary? I thought we are consecrated to the Holy Trinity upon our baptism.
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Nina Murphy
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BrendaPeter wrote:
| I guess the main thing to keep in mind is that when it comes to being a slave, the particular master makes all the difference in the world. Would Our Mother ever treat as as anything less than human? |
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That is an astute point.
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BrendaPeter wrote:
| Another thought Helen - In our MIM formation meetings, Fr. Elias has mentioned that St. Maximilian Kolbe took St. Louis de Montfort's idea of being a slave to Our Lady one step further, the idea being that to be her slave was not enough. Perhaps you or someone else might be able to elaborate. |
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I am looking forward to hearing what other people have to say about this topic. For me, with my experience of saying the Rosary directly leading me to attend daily Mass, I became completely convinced of the power of Marian devotion. I didn't need any explanations in order to accept her into my heart. I just wanted (and want) more of the Blessed Virgin Mary. She accomplished in me something that I couldn't accomplish for myself: an intimacy with the Lord by receiving the Eucharist on a daily basis.
For me it was incredibly easy to do whatever she said. I am glad to be her servant, slave, instrument, property, even dirt if she will shackle me to the Lord. And this is what she does. Some how, she invariably keeps my heart on what it needs to be on as long as I continue in my devotion to her.
To Jesus through Mary
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Helen
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PaulaL wrote:
BrendaPeter wrote:
| Lastly Fr. mentioned that it is essential to be consecrated to Our Lady in some way and essentially we all are as part of our baptism. |
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Now I am really confused. Are you saying that when we are baptised we are consecrated to Mary? I thought we are consecrated to the Holy Trinity upon our baptism. |
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Paula,
I posted at this threadHow we know Mary is Our Mother? a quote to explain this idea. Look for "Beside the Cradle".
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aussieannie
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PaulaL wrote:
| Now I am really confused. Are you saying that when we are baptised we are consecrated to Mary? I thought we are consecrated to the Holy Trinity upon our baptism. |
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Paula, Helen quoted Fr Manelli somewhere on the board about what happens at baptism, so I brought it here as it is so good!
Helen wrote:
When I read Amy's introduction at the welcome thread, earlier in the day I had read this passage from
Devotion to Our Lady by Fr. Manelli, FI
(This is a short, little book, it could be a good first book before True Devotion)
Fr. Manelli wrote:
Beside our cradle
“When is it that Our Lady becomes our Mother, and we her children?
It is in holy Baptism. With the reception of baptismal grace into the soul we are born again ‘in water and in the Holy Spirit” (Jn 3:5), becoming children of God and of Mary and brethren of Jesus.
St. Leo the Great had good grounds for his statement that every baptismal font is where the holy Virgin becomes a Mother. We ought to conclude from this that every Christian emerges from his rebirth in Baptism, as a devotee of Our Lady, for he is then born a child of Mary, and a child’s devotion towards his mother is instinctive.
Together with the natural mother, watching beside every baptized child’s cradle there stands the heavenly Mother.
While the natural mother is a true mother, the heavenly mother, Mary, is even more so, because Mary is the Mother of the spiritual life, whereas the natural mother brought forth only the life of the body. Our Lady is as much more of a real Mother to us as the supernatural order surpasses the natural.
Thus Saints like St. Joseph of Copertino rightly considered our earthly mother to be a mere ”nurse”, in comparison to the Mother of our spiritual life. St. Cajetan’s mother consecrated him to Our Lady from his birth and regarded herself as only the boy’s “nurse”; and she used to call him “Mary’s Cajetan.” |
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Brenda, Fr Eilas explained things well - thank you for sharing it!
I have never worried about being a slave to Mary but when I read Fr Eilas' words, it occured to me that in the States, where there has been slavery not too far back in it's past, that it is naturally associated with pain, fear, injustice and evil. It could be a very hard thing to stop the connection, upon even thinking of the word. Like an impasse.
Maybe prayer about it is advisable. In the discussions previously about being let down by earthly mothers in the past, the issue of trying to fully understand with our hearts, what a perfect mother is like, is there. So too with slavery, maybe there is a lack of understanding of the perfectness IN slavery and there must be in the spiritual plane, for Our Lady to have called herself "handmaid." (doule-slave)
Since finding the passage commentary about The Annunciation, I am delightfully putting my mind, my consencration to the words: "I am the handmaid of the Lord." - I wish to imitate her - I feel as though I am immersing my heart and soul in it. It has given new meaning to me - because for me I just never thought deeply about what being a slave was, even though I was accepting to be one with no worries - I think I focused more on mother-child relationship but now I want to feel all the elements of the consecration - I want it all! (bit of St Therese there. )
Maybe for those who feel scarred (and if it is a factor, I understand it perfectly) by their earthly understanding of slavery, maybe prayerful meditation on the 1st Joyful mystery of the rosary would be good, I will start doing it for my feelings of slavery have been neutral and I am sure that I shouldn't be like that either for the full understanding of things.
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cathhomeschool
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I think that there is a danger in getting caught up in the "terminology" of slave, object, possession, etc. The saints are saints because of their extreme love for God and because they put this love into action and served God by doing His will so much in this life that became saints. Some wrote much during their lives and others didn't. Among those who wrote, there is a great diversity in style and wording (and though I am not well read, I have read enough to see this). Different styles will appeal to different people, just like different saints will be "special" to different people. (And different metaphors may appeal to us at different times in our lives). All, however, lead us to God (by long paths or short). So whether you say slave, servant, object, or even "friend" or child, the point that we (I hope that it's okay to take the liberty of saying "we") need to get is that we will love Mary and love her Son and will try to do their will more and more each day. Very simple (though I've been verbose in saying it!).
helen wrote:
| I didn't need any explanations in order to accept her into my heart. I just wanted (and want) more of the Blessed Virgin Mary. |
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Beautifully said and exactly what I mean. I'm not saying that exploring these definitions isn't helpful (Nina, what you said was eye opening.) but at some point we need to just say 'yes' I will try to love God more, and in loving Him we will love Mary (some will feel more or less of a devotion to her) who points to her Son and we will naturally desire to serve Him, call it what you will. My meager two cents!
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Helen
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aussieannie wrote:
Maybe for those who feel scarred (and if it is a factor, I understand it perfectly) by their earthly understanding of slavery, maybe prayerful meditation on the 1st Joyful mystery of the rosary would be good, I will start doing it for my feelings of slavery have been neutral and I am sure that I shouldn't be like that either for the full understanding of things.
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In honor of Our Lady of Lourdes, I've been reading some of St. Bernadette's words describing the first apparition of Our Lady. Do they apply here?
St. Bernadette wrote:
I was afraid. I stepped back. I wanted to call the two little girls; I hadn't the courage to do so. I rubbed my eyes again and again: I thought I must be mistaken.
Raising my eyes again, I saw the girl smiling at me most graciously and seeming to invite me to come nearer. But I was still afraid. It was not however a fear such as I have had at other times, for I would have stayed there for ever looking at her: whereas, when you are afraid, you run away quickly.
Then I thought of saying my prayers. I put my hand in my pocket. I took out the rosary I usually carry on me. I knelt down and I tried to make the sign of the Cross, But I could not lift my hand to my forehead: it fell back.
The girl meanwhile stepped to one side and turned towards me. This time, she was holding the large beads in her hand. She crossed herself as though to pray. my hand was trembling. I tried again to make the sign of the Cross, and this time I could. After that I was not afraid."
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(Saint Bernadette Soubirous by Abbe Francios Trochu (Tan Publishers)
Today, I've been making the sign of the Cross as a way of imitating St. Bernadette and to bring me closer to Our Lady.(Sort of a mini Mary Vitamin)
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Sorry Helen! I was writing when you posted your link. 
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And I was writing when both of you posted, so I didn't see either response!
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I have been thinking also about Pope John Paul II's motto, "Totus Tuus" which is holy slavery and I found this lovely, inspiring article as I started to read, it talks about "be not afraid", "continue to pray" - it made me think of your posting Helen.
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I'm just pushing forward, right into this idea of slavery, I know that not all feel quite comfortable with it, but while the discussion is up, I want to post a paragraph out of this article for thought and discussion:
Totus Tuus article wrote:
| It can be argued without pious exaggeration that Pope John Paul II has also been the greatest Marian pope in history. He has taught by life, not only by word, what it means to be "entirely yours" Mary. His personal witness of Marian consecration has led to his ubiquitous acts of Marian teachings and entrustments, which have instructed the world what it means to live holy slavery to the Mother of God as the most perfect means of conformity to Jesus Christ in full fidelity to our baptismal promises. |
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As I had said, due to my neutral feelings, things are swirling for me too and this is going to give me a bit of thought today. 
Helen, (and Alice!) this up-and-coming consecration (renewal), I feel will be the most radical conforming of my heart and mind (God willing) to my original pledge - thank you for this board! 
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Pope John Paul wrote:
In Montfortian spirituality, the dynamism of charity is expressed particularly through the symbol of the slavery of love for Jesus, after the example and with the maternal help of Mary. It is a matter of a total communion in the kenosis of Christ: a communion lived out with Mary, who is intimately present in the mysteries of the life of her Son. "No other human state involves belonging more completely to another than slavery. Among Christian peoples, nothing makes a person belong more completely to Jesus and his holy Mother than voluntary slavery. Our Lord himself gave us the example of this when out of love for us he 'took the form of a slave'. Our Lady gave us the same example when she called herself the handmaid or slave of the Lord. The Apostle considered it an honour to be called 'slave of Christ'. Several times in Holy Scripture, Christians are referred to as 'slaves of Christ'" (True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, 72). In fact, the Son of God, come into the world through obedience to his Father in the Incarnation (cf. Heb 10.7), then makes himself humbler yet in accepting to be obedient unto death, death on a cross (cf. Phil 2.7-8). Mary responded to the will of God by the total gift of herself, body and soul, for ever, from the Annunciation up to the Cross, and from the Cross up to her Assumption. Between the obedience of Christ and that of Mary, there is, to be sure, an asymmetry engendered by the ontological difference which exists between the divine Person of the Son and the human person of Mary, from which flows the exclusive nature and the salvific efficaciousness of the obedience of Christ. It was from this primary obedience of Christ that his Mother herself received the grace to be able to obey God in a total way and thus to collaborate in the mission of her Son.
The slavery of love, therefore, must be understood in the light of the marvellous exchange between God and humanity in the mystery of the Incarnate Word. This is a true exchange of love between God and his creature in the reciprocity of the total gift of oneself. The "spirit (of this devotion)… requires an interior dependence on Mary, and effectively becoming her slave and the slave of Jesus through her" (Secret of Mary, 44). Paradoxically, this "bond of charity", this "slavery of love", makes a person fully free, with the true liberty of the children of God (cf. True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, 169). It is a matter of dedicating oneself totally to Jesus, in response to the Love with which he first loved us. The one who lives out such a love can say with St. Paul: "I live now not with my own life but with the life of Christ who lives in me" (Gal 2.20). |
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Here is a link to the full letter.
The Holy Father is a contempory devotee and a writer, par excellence. What I like about his True Devotion writings, is he is able to 'elucidate' a little further in a modern way, some of deMonfort's statements written in a different age (still timeless of course - in fact the Holy Father's writings are continually littered with True Devotion quotes and I am often trying to work out where one starts and lets off, creating a seamless effect.)
Coming back on this ....In fairness to St Louis deMonfort, I should say that it is the manner in which the Holy Father also draws paragraphs many pages away and themes that run across the chapters or whole book probably and draws them together tightly, to 'sum them up' that I think is helping me also.
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4Real Forums : Hidden Treasure
Topic: Slave of Mary
