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insegnante
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| Posted: Oct 09 2008 at 3:45pm | IP Logged
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I keep reading stuff about growing your own food in preparation for a worse economic crisis, but I wonder how much we could really grow in our yard to minimize the need to shop? No veg. garden this year, last year's garden was fun but not very successful: we had several small cucumbers, I think a few carrots and a whole bunch of cherry tomatoes from a leftover plant the lady next door gave us (so I didn't feel like we really grew them all ourselves.)
So what's realistic to grow that really helps make a meal? Corn, peas... I don't think we could really grow wheat or rice in our backyard? Anyone have a lot of success with beans (what kind?) and potatoes in a climate anything like Northern Virginia, which is a lot like the climate where I grew up in NYC -- upper 80s-90s summers, 20s-40s in the winter, humid?
Seems like it wouldn't just be a matter of learning to grow our own food, but learning to live off food we could grow.
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Theresa
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 09 2008 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
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one thing is that you're not likely to not be able to get any food.. so what we choose to do with limited space is concentrate on the more expensive or limited availablity garden veggies. This year we mainly grew tomatoes, peppers (chile and bell), cucumbers (the lemon cukes went wild the others were pretty slow) and zucchini.
Grow what you eat, eat what you grow and look at what you can store if it's going to make sense for you to attempt it.
I don't find potatoes for instance to be a good return for the time and space in my garden. even when expensive they're maybe 40 cents a pound. Tomatoes on the other hand would be $1 a pound. As long as we use tomatoes (we do for sauces and soups and salsa) then it makes more sense for us to grow tomato and buy potato.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 09 2008 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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Also, you may find a better return on using a pantry system where you buy on sale and buy in bulk and store foods for the year.. This week a local store has cases of canned goods on sale.. great sale.. cheapest I can generally get the thigns I buy.. and I buy all our canned tomato sauce (my garden tomatoes are going for salsa) and some canned fruit and various things for a full year at this time. You do have to have a place to store it.. but you don't have to have a dedicated spot.. you can put them under beds or in coat closets or wherever you might have a bit of room.
I also buy wheat and rice and dried beans and sugar and honey in bulk and store in food grade 6 gallon buckets in my garage.
Ideally, I'd like to buy 2 years of whatever.. you use the first year while buying the 3rd year etc.. that way you always have the year you're using (which can be down to practically nothing at the end of it) plus a year in reserve.
plus if things go bad for whatever reason.. stupid gov't decisions or natural disasters or losing your job.. you have food and all your money can go toward the other necessities like keeping a roof over your head and fresh water and heat in the winter.
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Angel
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| Posted: Oct 09 2008 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
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If you have limited space, you'd probably want to grow vertically if you can - tomatoes, pole beans, and cucumbers. If you're looking for sheer yield, summer squash and zucchini are good. Green beans and squash are incredibly easy to grow. And if you possibly can, grow some berry bushes... Blackberries were going for $4.95 a pint this summer here, and our bush didn't cost much more than that. This year was the first year it produced, and it paid for itself many times over. You can espalier fruit trees against a sunny wall.
In Virginia, you ought to be able to grow pretty much anything. In upstate NY, our season is so short that I continually have problems with warm weather crops like tomatoes, peppers (I have SO much trouble with peppers), and melons (I still haven't been able to grow one). I also have a hard time getting winter squash to ripen. But you have a longish season and that makes things easier.
There's an e-book out there that I found pretty helpful: Momma's Guide to Growing Your Groceries.
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Angela
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 10 2008 at 4:59pm | IP Logged
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Have a science fan on a gardening kick  . Seriously, he wanted to grow everything and we had limits in terms of sun and what we could spend so we had to prioritize. Priority was given to the expensive items that we eat a lot of or the things we love but that don't have any taste when store bought. Also prioritized was anything that we eat a lot that also grows well in pots - then we could leave the pots on the driveway to catch the sun or move them around. Anything that we could get at a reasonable price and quality locally, we put off. Also we had to forgo things like corn - just don't think the neighbors would have tolerated that growing along the front border though ds tried to convince me to just plant it on the other side of the sidewalk by the street, plus it would have shaded what little sun we have.
Don't forget to look at the herbs and spices you use regularly. Also, we had ds do a cost estimation - how much for the seed, the soil, the water, etc. (approximate) and what they cost in the store. Then we looked at how often we eat them. He told me about how many plants he could fit in the couple of spaces we had agreed to use for the garden. There were some tradeoffs as some crops you have to plant tons in order to get enough at once to actually put fresh food on the stove for supper. Others, one plant would produce plenty for our big eaters.
In our very,very manicured neighborhood, we put the garden where the sun is located - in the front yard. I was not quite ready to till our entire grass under for gardening but he did take the prime locations - that is after all where the sun reaches at the right times and duration. He made square foot, raised gardens which made life easier. Lots of folks stop and stare and we are looking for land or place in the country before we drive our neighbors totally insane. The square foot garden construction used scrap wood from the back yard and some various rocks to border. It was rather ragged at first, but more aesthetic dd made suggestions before I saw it and it isn't horrible - though not really in keeping with the typical neighborhood lawn service/ professionally landscaped lawns.
As for your question on which crops. Here is how we decided. With seed catelogue in hand, we looked at the expense of growing it vs the cost in the store AND how often we eat it plus how easy ds or others said it grew in our area without constant treatment for bugs. Also we decided not to order potatoes or onions - if they really want to grow one, they can use a supermarket one and create their own start and they are very cheap in quantity and reasonable quality here.
One thing we realized is that we go through oregeno like crazy and those little spice bottles are sky high. Look at the herbs you really use a lot!!! The other thing we looked at is quality of what is available. We like salads here, but not the salad quality of what we generally find locally unless we pay a lot - so spinach, lettuce and tomatoes. Tomatoes, no matter how cheap just aren't worth purchasing because they have no taste unless they are homegrown. Homegrown they are delicious. We eat tomatoes like crazy and have yet to have enough to even can or freeze or make into sauce. We have harvested over 200 tomatoes so far - ds keeps a tally. We planted bush and vine crops. The crops were bumper even with drought. We also planted okra because it was cheap and easy to do and didn't take a lot of space. I didn't think we were getting much okra cause I never saw any - Strawberries (planted just because the dc really love them, and they are rarely at a good price around here) were the same. Then I found out that the kids were eating them straight off the plant. For those to find a way to our dinner table we'll have to plant in much larger numbers in order to get enough at once to cook. The boys have added two more square foot gardens to our front, planted a grape vine by a trellis at the front door and waiting to order the next one. (Grapes are my dh favorite and we can buy buckets of them and they are gone in one day). Oh and one son with crooked teeth keeps biting and ending up with canker sores, so he planted lemon balm. Oh they planted beans too but though we got plenty of beans, it was always a few at a time and never enough to cook at once. The boys just eat them straight off the vine.
Janet
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Oct 10 2008 at 6:24pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
I also buy wheat and rice and dried beans and sugar and honey in bulk and store in food grade 6 gallon buckets in my garage.
Ideally, I'd like to buy 2 years of whatever.. you use the first year while buying the 3rd year etc.. that way you always have the year you're using (which can be down to practically nothing at the end of it) plus a year in reserve. |
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Where do you get your bulk food and food grade buckets? Would a basement be cool enough for storage? My fear is these things going rancid
Also, off topic, I assume you have a grain mill. What kind?
I have considered buying in bulk for the reasons you state, but the prices I have found are not much savings over what I pay by the pound at the health food store, and I haven't been able to justify the upfront cost.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 10 2008 at 7:55pm | IP Logged
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Lindsay you might want to look at some of the sites on self reliant living that cropped up around Y2K.. many of them didn't disappear they just morphed to preparing for any disaster or hard times.
whole grains can be stored for years.. yes heat can effect them but generally anything you store for only a year or so isn't going to be majorly harmed. Also what I do is buy at the end of summer.. then the majority of what I store is stored during the cool season and only the tail end of the supply is stored in hot weather. A basement would be perfect.. after all that's really closer to a root cellar than a garage is.
Things that are more likely to go rancid are anything that's processed.. flour especially whole wheat flour will go rancid.. if you want to store flour rather than whole grains, all purpose is your best choice. But flip side.. white rice stores better than brown rice because the part that is removed to make the rice white is the part that goes rancid soonest.
I do have a grain mill.. I bought the nutrimill.. it had great reviews and I love it. But it is fully electric so in thinking for disaster/hard times preparation, it's not perfect because it has to have electricity.. but I love that I can dump in the grain and walk away and come back to flour.
Where you can get your bulk dry goods cheapest will partly depend on your area because shipping can easily be half your cost or more. Online I'd check http://www.waltonfeed.com though I've heard they're having trouble filling orders lately or http://www.bobsredmill.com but also find out if there's any co-ops in your area, ask at the health store if they give any discount if you buy from them in bulk.. many places will give 10% if they can just buy you a case or bag or whatever of what you want and not have to repackage it or anything.. for them it's a guaranteed sale.. you might even offer to pay ahead so they don't have to front the money or fear getting "stood up".. especially if it's a smaller business.
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Michaela
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| Posted: Oct 10 2008 at 8:57pm | IP Logged
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We planted our first veggie garden this year.
We have 3 beds in a suburban backyard.
-- 2 beds are 5x20ft -- maybe less in length
-- 1 bed is maybe 6x10ft, but I've never measured.
Radishes  -- from seed to plate in about 30 days
If you like them, keep going. If not, plant something else in the spot. Perfect for children who want to see results NOW...rather than having to wait three or four months.
cucumbers -- I transplanted our struggling plants from an area that wasn't doing well (many were dying) to a new box. We were up to our elbows in cucs. Seriously. At least four a day. That was from maaaybe 7 plants.
Tomatoes  -- we are just now coming into the tomatoes to a point I just don't know what to do with them all. (yes, I know, canning is an option) There are so many varieties to choose from. They also grow well in containers. Absolutely will plant again.
Zucchini  -- tons...so we grate, then freeze. Add into meatloaf, spaghetti, make cakes, saute as a side for dinner. Many uses....
Corn  -- it was fun, but I really don't think we'll use the garden space for 40 stalks next year. The pole beans were so aggressive that they pulled down the corn (I was told to plant them together as the Native Americans did.)
Potatoes  -- We grew our potatoes in tires stacked up. They really don't take up much space at all. I put grass clippings and yard clippings on them ...they grew like crazy. No work really.
Snow peas -- waste of time unless you plant A LOT. I mean A LOT! I used my plants as little snacks as I worked in the yard.
Fava beans --  I just don't know what to do with them. They are perfect for, and prefer, cooler weather. They also add nutrients BACK into your soil. However, we never ate them before and still don't.
Carrots -- probably won't grow them again they take FOREVER. Tasted good, but used up space at 120days from seed to plate. Not something that continues to produce. Once picked....gone.
Squash -- plentiful. Harvesting now.
Pumpkin -- (small pumpkins) can be grown in a container!
Cilantro -- big hit here. I didn't plant enough. Easy to grow and great in tacos, salsa, ceviche, burritos, etc.
other herbs smelled nice, but didn't really use them.
I need to learn to cook more with herbs than the other seasonings. Growing herbs can save you a lot of money vs. buying at high spices in the store.
As someone suggested above, the berry plants aren't too expensive to buy.
I'd like to suggest DWARF fruit trees, if you have the space even one is very productive. It sounds insane, but they produce hundreds of apples or pears in about 3-5 years vs. a reg. fruit tree 10-20 years.
Once the pole beans started to produce, we had enough for at least four meals every two days. I froze a lot!!
We will plant MUCH MORE pole beans next year. At over 7ft, the vines grew taller than I had planned. If you plant them, be ready for a bit of height.
Oh, loose leaf lettuce is a great way to save money. A pack of seeds for maybe $1. You'd get dozens and dozens. (spinach too) The lettuce is very very expensive here. Lettuce alone made veggie gardening worth it, but we eat salad every night.
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Kristie 4
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| Posted: Oct 10 2008 at 9:08pm | IP Logged
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Now that we are in the city and therefore have less space, we plant in the yard what we really love and what we really value fresh. So even though I love growing squash and spuds, they don't get any space here in my urban plot.
This year we focused on.......
lots and lots of greens for great, huge, mixed salads all season
lots of basil( we love pesto)
tomatoes
beans
jalapenos (for the salsa)
zucchinni
a few cucumber plants
The kids also each have their own gardens which are a mix of veggies and flowers.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 10 2008 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
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oh.. one other site I should mention.. http://www.herbalcom.com decent dried herbs/spices for a great price. You do have to buy a pound of each.. but there are some that I can buy a pound there cheaper than I can buy a few ounces in the grocery store.
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gwendyt
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| Posted: Oct 17 2008 at 12:13pm | IP Logged
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For food grade buckets and gamma seal lids, I like this site, although if you have something like a Fleet Farm near you, you may find the buckets/lids there for an even better price. Stay away from food service supply stores - I've found them to be very expensive for these buckets/lids. Also, I have the Family Grain Mill - with hand base and an adapter for my Bosch mixer if I don't want to grind by hand. Really like it!
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melanie
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This is the first year I've had *no* veggie garden at all. I had a baby in May and just couldn't wrap my brain around anything....but in past years, even crazy, crazy ones, I have always grown tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes, and basil, because we love pesto and it's expensive to buy enough to make pesto!
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LisaR
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anyone have favorite seed catalogs?
I think tomatoes, cilantro, and sweet peppers are worth it- they are all so expensive in the stores and one can grow lots in a little space. One year we also did personal size pumpkins and watermelons- they grew up a fence and did really well!
people always give us zucchini, they are not super nutrient dense/expensive anyway, so we never grow them.
my one wish is more room for snow peas.sugar snaps! I agree, they ended up being a snack for us, and only hungry for more!!
I might have to try lettuces next spring. can't you also do some lettuces in the early fall?
I'd love any seed catalog suggestions. looking at pretty stuff might motivate me during the winter months!!
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stefoodie
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| Posted: Oct 18 2008 at 1:30pm | IP Logged
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LisaR wrote:
| anyone have favorite seed catalogs? |
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here are some of mine
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amyable
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This was the first year we tried lettuces and they were a big hit! Really a money saver here, and it's so much fun to just pick salad from the backyard. We do have bug trouble though.  My dh especially likes the arugula we planted to give our salads some "kick".
I'd love to try a blueberry bush or raspberries.
I wish avacadoes grew well here! They are so expensive too.
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Michaela
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| Posted: Oct 19 2008 at 11:36pm | IP Logged
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LisaR wrote:
| can't you also do some lettuces in the early fall? |
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With a cold frame, a rectangular or square box, covered with an old window or thick heavy duty plastic. The cover will heat the inside from the sun.
Depending on your fall and winter....you can grow lettuce (which is a cool weather crop) because the frame keeps the lettuce safe from the frost.
Well, that what I read anyway. 
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Michaela
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4Real Forums : Our Lady's Loom, Larder, and Laundry
Topic: most useful garden crops
