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dolorsofmary
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| Posted: April 13 2010 at 2:09pm | IP Logged
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My desire is for you to give me some pearls of wisdom that will help my husband and I be more unified over the intensity of homeschooling of our son who is 4.5 yrs old. I feel that his homeschooling should be delight orientated at this point. My husband feels that our son is lazy and that I should work him harder. I read 'Better Late than Early' by the Moore Foundation and 'Raising Cain protecting the Emotional Lives of our boys' and I relayed all this to my husband but he still does not see what I see. Help please. Any advice please? We are unified on virtually everything else. This is the one point that we are disunified on. My husband did well in school and refutes the idea that boys grow up more slowly because of his experience, I think. Help please. Thank you.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 13 2010 at 2:21pm | IP Logged
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Just remember that marriage is a lot of compromise.
There's no reason you can't do some things the way your dh wants and still do some things the way you want. And someone usually has to be first. Once someone takes that step of compromise.. it's easier for the other not to fight so hard and also reach out in compromise.
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 13 2010 at 2:37pm | IP Logged
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You might be on the same page more than you realize, it just might take some time to understand what he means by this.
Ask him for examples of what he means. Does he have an idea of what should be learned at this age? Is he expecting some certain reading and math skills?
Is he picturing home education to look just like a classroom setting with workbooks?
Is he seeing inactivity and concerned about that? If you did more activities that weren't necessarily filling a bucket, but appropriate leading activities (Montessori, CM) for this age is that more comfortable for him?
Have you printed out or looked at scope and sequence for your state or the "What your Child Needs to Know..." to let him know that even being slower paced, the standard expectation isn't high level of learning. At this age, we're trying to excite the child to want to learn, to build motor skills, to lay foundations for writing and reading, and basic math.
Would leading your son a bit to create a desire, light a fire so that he wants to learn make your husband happier?
We just had a similar thread last week.
Another thought, can you see if he wants to help plan the learning? Help teach along the way? That would be the most ideal.
I'm just throwing out all these ideas. In our house, my dh was saying things and at first it scared and upset me. I was defensive, thinking he was shooting down everything I was doing. But after discussing, seeing my son's progress, he just wants to see some quantitative and NORMALIZATION. I think this is standard for fathers. They work in the world. They know how hard it is to be Catholic, be in the world, not of it. They are concerned that adding one more "oddity" of homeschooling, their children (especially sons) will have a really hard time.
Like Jodie said, it is a lot about compromise. I have found out the hard way, that usually my dh is right, and if I just try to listen and have contructive conversations, we can come to an agreement, and we have an even better plan of action than if I was just doing it all by myself.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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dolorsofmary
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| Posted: April 13 2010 at 4:27pm | IP Logged
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Thank you for your great advice. We've always disagreed on the intensity but it came to a head this morning. Here is what happened:
I felt that since my son 4.5 yrs old is an only child that he needs to be around other kids more. I had a standard weekly play date set for him some time ago but the kid turned out to be a bully and his mother would just give empty threats and eventually my son didn't want to go anymore. We go to the playground but either no one is there during school hours or after school it is filled with cliques and bullies and he has to work hard to find a friend - nothing wrong with that and I let him do the hard work but still, and his present 'weekly' play date friend is starting school in september. There is another once a month homeschool playdate and there is a once a month homeschool rollerskate but it is not active once it is summer. So I wanted a homeschool co-op for him or at least I thought since he would make good friends that are homeschooled and maybe I would learn how to tweak what I was doing. I found 3 in the area. The 1st was protestant and made everyone sign a protestant faith statement so we didn't bother, the 2nd was protestant and was supposedly catholic friendly and many of my devout catholic friends went there and there was no faith statement to be signed so we tried it out 1 day for free. But during the bible verse sword drill a very precocious 5 yr old asked some catholic theological questions and the teacher basically said that we do not need to do works, all we need is a little bit of faith to get to heaven, that's it. So I was done there (little did i know that the head of the group called that girls MOm and apologized and the teacher was corrected so the answer in the future would be catholics believe this and protestants believe that). 3rd was a catholic co-op, much further away and much more expensive and for my son's age it is montessori! I was excited and I fell in love! It was so catholic and beautiful and they allowed my son and i to attend the remaining 9 weeks of the year starting today! I would be in my son's classroom too. So wonderful! SOwhats the problem. Well I was told this some time ago and then we had to wait for Easter break to come and go and then I learned that not only is this very expensive, and once a week but it also has $300.00 in fees for next year, and it is also 9:30-3pm. Well to start our time at this Catholic co-op this morning I got everything ready the night before. I got up and got dressed andthen got my son up to get dressed and he told me (he is articulate of his feelings for his age) that he does not want to go, the day is too long. I in my heart felt the same thing but I felt if he liked it well why not it will be a wonderful thing perhaps. So I contacted them (e-mail was my only avenue) and let them know. I let my husband know via e-mail too since he was at work. Then it seemed from heaven I got an e-mail of a mommy and me once a week thing starting today and so we went to that ti was from only 9:30-11 and free, just play, circle time, crafts, and snacks. My husband did not like my decision. He felt that our son is lazy and that we should have at least done the remaining 9 weeks of the year (which is what I wanted to do to but I listened and honored my son's request to not go) SO that is what really happened. but there has been this tension before in other discussions with my husband. I have read 'better late than early' and Raising cain protecting the lives of our sons and he does not see what I am saying, which is to be child-led at this age especially boys. We had Laura Berquist come to our homeschool conference this weekend and she was saying that it is easier and much better to make a child repeat kindergarten than make them repeat 2nd grade or later. She was saying that much curriculum is repeated k-5th but 6 th and 9th grade are big jumps and if the kid isnot ready and has to be held backk he is seen as a freak by his peers and perhaps himself too but if he is held back as a kindergartener then no one knows essentially. I told my husband this and he disagreed with this too. I do like your advice of sitting down and goingovercurriculum with my husband. Presently (and he knows this) I hit all the subjects by just reading to him - Charlotte mason method and embellishing where I can with food and music and field trips. Its a lot of fun. I have been doing this for some time too. I also try to embellish with 'montessori on a shoestring'. My son enjoys me reading to him and I have been doing so since the very beginning. Sometimes he likes montessori but even sometimes he gets frustrated with montessori if it challenges him to much but I try to encourage and add fun to help him through it. I don't push though . I don't want emotional baggage to be attached to reading and learning and all. your advice, insight please? THank you!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 13 2010 at 4:41pm | IP Logged
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It sounds like your son is a smart little cookie that knows just what to say to get mom to go along with him. 
You rarely need to make a decision that quickly. What if he'd been sick? you would have been able to miss the one day right?
Talking to your dh before you make a decision like that will help greatly in keeping things running smoothly.
I don't know if you could backtrack it. But if you can. It would be nice to really give it a try. See if your son was just reluctant.. didn't like having to get up and get ready to leave. See how he really acted after enough time that you could tell that it was too much or if it was just having to adjust to it.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 13 2010 at 7:04pm | IP Logged
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dolorsofmary wrote:
| 3rd was a catholic co-op, much further away and much more expensive and for my son's age it is montessori! I was excited and I fell in love! It was so catholic and beautiful and they allowed my son and i to attend the remaining 9 weeks of the year starting today! I would be in my son's classroom too. So wonderful! SOwhats the problem. Well I was told this some time ago and then we had to wait for Easter break to come and go and then I learned that not only is this very expensive, and once a week but it also has $300.00 in fees for next year, and it is also 9:30-3pm. Well to start our time at this Catholic co-op this morning I got everything ready the night before. I got up and got dressed andthen got my son up to get dressed and he told me (he is articulate of his feelings for his age) that he does not want to go, the day is too long. I in my heart felt the same thing but I felt if he liked it well why not it will be a wonderful thing perhaps. So I contacted them (e-mail was my only avenue) and let them know. I let my husband know via e-mail too since he was at work. Then it seemed from heaven I got an e-mail of a mommy and me once a week thing starting today and so we went to that ti was from only 9:30-11 and free, just play, circle time, crafts, and snacks. My husband did not like my decision. He felt that our son is lazy and that we should have at least done the remaining 9 weeks of the year (which is what I wanted to do to but I listened and honored my son's request to not go) SO that is what really happened. |
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The Montessori set up sounds really like an ideal situation. My sister sends her younger children to a Montessori school, so it's a bit different, but she does give them freedom to choose not to go on some days.
I would consider the fee not that expensive if this is considered education. If it's just a play group, then I can see the balking at the fee.
Part of this age will be your son a bit nervous and adjusting, but also feeling out you. Are you going to help him help himself in self-discipline and sticking to tasks and commitments? That's probably what your dh is focusing on, and it's a good point.
dolorsofmary wrote:
| but there has been this tension before in other discussions with my husband. I have read 'better late than early' and Raising cain protecting the lives of our sons and he does not see what I am saying, which is to be child-led at this age especially boys. We had Laura Berquist come to our homeschool conference this weekend and she was saying that it is easier and much better to make a child repeat kindergarten than make them repeat 2nd grade or later. She was saying that much curriculum is repeated k-5th but 6 th and 9th grade are big jumps and if the kid isnot ready and has to be held backk he is seen as a freak by his peers and perhaps himself too but if he is held back as a kindergartener then no one knows essentially. I told my husband this and he disagreed with this too. I do like your advice of sitting down and goingovercurriculum with my husband. Presently (and he knows this) I hit all the subjects by just reading to him - Charlotte mason method and embellishing where I can with food and music and field trips. Its a lot of fun. I have been doing this for some time too. I also try to embellish with 'montessori on a shoestring'. My son enjoys me reading to him and I have been doing so since the very beginning. Sometimes he likes montessori but even sometimes he gets frustrated with montessori if it challenges him to much but I try to encourage and add fun to help him through it. I don't push though . I don't want emotional baggage to be attached to reading and learning and all. your advice, insight please? THank you! |
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We had another discussion recently about whether "child-led" is really the ideal. We are still the parents, and with the graces of matrimony education of our children is one of our primary duties. Family based or family-centered might be more apt to our aim.
The child needs to be guided. Even in Montessori and Charlotte Mason it is not completely child-led. The child is directed to good materials, work, the parents light the fire. The child then makes the work their own.
We are clued into the child's needs, desires, weaknesses, strong points, but we have to help guide them in their formation of their Faith, living the virtues and forming their character and formation of habits.
I know I'm being long-winded to make the point that child-led might not be ideal.
And from that other thread, although related to the liturgy and faith formation, I think this aptly applies:
Eleanor wrote:
DH and I have recently been talking a lot about homeschooling and the faith, and the various questions and challenges that typically come up. We both feel that Catholic family life is typically portrayed in a way that puts too much direct focus on the children. Of course, the children's needs do occupy a lot of the parents' time, but that doesn't mean that they're at the center of everything. It seems to us that this is in some ways more of a secular, progressivist idea... i.e., that the purpose of family life is to give parents the opportunity to turn their children into perfect human beings, by following all the "right" theories and methods. The bankruptcy of this approach is obvious, and its results are all around us.
Of course, the real reason we have families is to help everyone get to heaven, and to cooperate with one another and the outside world to help build God's kingdom. In this task, we all have equal dignity. The children shouldn't be pushed aside as if they were obstacles to the parents reaching their full potential, but neither should the parents find it necessary to put their own spiritual and personal growth on the back burner, for the sake of trying to create some kind of idyllic childhood scenario (which, even if we could attain it, might actually be counterproductive in the long run).
As a result of this shift in mindset, we've gone from thinking less about specific ideas and plans for the religious formation of our children, and more in terms of "family-based education." By this, we mean seeing the family as it really is: as a community of love, faith, and learning, whose educational work starts by building strong relationships between all of the family members (including the adults), then spreads outward to develop and support each person's relationships with various branches of the broader society and the Church, and ultimately, serves to build and strengthen each person's relationship. |
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 13 2010 at 9:40pm | IP Logged
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Going back to some of your other comments, about boys generally needing more time, I totally agree with the studies, but you do have to look at your son individually. We struggled with our decision, as my son's birthday is just a few days within the deadline, so he's a young first grader. But he was so ready to learn. Being at home gives me that freedom to adjust for his being young and not quite at the social adjustment. I think if I was sending him to school we might have held him back.
But if I hold him back so that he can't grow and learn, it's not good. I don't push him, he pushes himself in some things. He loves math, reads to no end. But he's not so crazy about coloring and writing is harder, but that seems typical boy. So there are several factors 1) age, 2) gender, 3) individual personality and ability.
If you have concerns of what you are seeing in your son, and you see it as he's not ready, then it means more discussion with dh so he can be on the same page. If dh is seeing that "he needs to be normal" and you see signs, your dh would understand it's more normal to be an older kid in K or 1st grade than repeat a grade later on.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 13 2010 at 10:16pm | IP Logged
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One thing I would suggest is to step back a moment and remind yourself that your son is 4 1/2. He doesn't have to spend hours every day learning at this age - unless he wants to.
I agree with Jenn's insights. If the Montessori group is really a learning experience, not just playtime and group activities, the fee makes sense. But, you also have to figure out how your son learns best and how well he warms up to group experiences. He's very young still, and it might help you and your husband to get a sitter and spend an afternoon or evening talking through what is best for your son at his current stage of development. If you already know he's an introvert or extrovert, you need to factor that into any planning you do for his outside activities. If you're not sure, then perhaps several weeks of the less-intense play/snack/craft experience will allow you to make some observations (your husband could, if work time allows, take a vacation morning to observe) and determine your son's introvert/extrovert leanings and discern his learning style.
The most important thing I can tell you (after 18 years of parenthood) is that if you love your child, and I can tell that you love him dearly and want the best for him, that's what matters most. The next most important thing is to remember that you have plenty of time to fix learning issues, whether they're things you wished you'd done but didn't or things your son has had to deal with from birth that you are just discovering. He's young and you have time.
When my dd was 4 she started to teach herself to read. Not all at once, just here and there. We knew we were going to teach her at home when we moved overseas (my dh is in the Navy) but I had no idea she'd be doing kindergarten work at age 4. Our first year at home was trial-and-error. She didn't do all K that first year, but we just tried to meet her where she was and foster a love of learning. I read aloud a LOT and did until just last year. I discovered early on that science could hold her interest for hours.
She's still a science kid and I try to make sure her favorite subject is as open to her interests and input as possible. The flip side is that the other basics of academic life (language arts, math, history, religion) are also part of her daily experience, and have been in some way or another since we began our journey together.
There is always a balancing act/compromise exercise when a family opts to learn at home. I think parents should sit down every year (at least) to discuss how things are working, decide on any changes and then figure out together how to implement those changes. Deciding things together as husband and wife, father and mother, puts you two on the same page, albeit with compromise, and then allows you to present a united front to your children. (This may sound overly pompous now, but it won't in about 7 years!)
Having said all of this, your son is young. He needs time for play as well as for formal learning experiences. I totally believe that time spent outdoors, skipping rocks and taking photos of bugs and lizards, is very valuable for young learners. You may find, as I did, that allowing child-led experiences in just one subject (for us it was science, but it might be music or reading for someone else) will help settle your son and help him to be open to working his way through the other subjects that are important for children his age.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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dolorsofmary
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Thank you all for your great great advice. I got an e-mail back form the 'principal' of the catholic co-op and she said that I did not burn any bridges and to let her know when my son is ready to start.
I talked to the lady who I would have been working with in the montessori classroom and she is so wonderful! And had a lot of great ideas.
AndI was not straight up about the price. THe $300.00 was only the fee, the tuition is an additional $550.00 and that is for only 1 child! Yikes. I did not know about the $300.00 fee until this past Saturday and that cooled me off some what and scared me because I am very very watchful of our finances and it just don't know how we'd do it if we paid that much for 1 day a week.
Anyway the lady I would be working with had many suggestions:
1) she said stay close to good catholic friends like at this co-op, people from there, etc. because if he gets close to protestant friends then in the teen years he will probably cling to them somewhat and lose his catholic faith, and she supported her statement with many real life examples right under her nose
2) Tuesday is the day of the co-op. it's from 9:30-3:30. After that around 5:30 is choir and drama where older kids get involved with htat but the little kids stick around and play. And so my son can stay from 3:30 -5:30 to just play with other catholic kids and I can bring some games and since I will be refreshed from not waking up early like the other moms that day I can work as the coral of the little kids
3) if they get a lot of participants next year then maybe they can consider having my son coming for 1/2 days since he feels the day is too long or even a few free days here and there (1/2 days prorated would work great with our budget really)
and finally my son is a science kid too, not big on pre-writing. he is teaching himself to read too with fridge letters and whatnot. I am trying to help him with sounding out and doing some montessori reading skills and reading and reading and reading to him. He can with help sound out words like 'wow' and simple things like that.
He is very very extroverted around older kids and introverted or at least uninterested around kids smaller than himself. I have cultivated an interest in art through fun art books that otherwise that interest would hnot have beeen there i believe. He loves music and we do fun music and music appreciation. The one thing that the co-op does not do for his age group is music (as far as I can see) unless he were old enough for the choir and that is a far way away. They do do a book with drawings of saints but it is not art per se. The teacher does seem to be against rennaissance art since there are a lot of unmentionable body parts shown. My son is young enough I feel since he still even now b'feeds a little that - what's one more br***t? and he knows what he looks like so to see a picture of venus de milo or the statue of david big deal. well I don't know. I like the group very much. They are a little rigid where all women and girls must wear skirts or dresses below the knee and shoulders must be covered. I think modesty is a must but I hate wearing skirts but oh well. I bought my skirts at good will so I am ready even though it is a sacrifice for me becuase i love my jeans. SO I think all will be well. I've asked permission to come just for the play time 3:30-5:30 which would be free. And then when I see the principal I will speak to her about coming 1/2 days at a prorated cost. And see what she says. The treasurer is in the hospital so I don't want to pepper her with financial questions. Thank you! Any advice please send my way. I loved the suggestion of how men see the work force as a difficult place and so they want their children esp. sons to be prepared and sothere fore put pressure on early sometimes. I shared that with my husband and he understood that very well. We talked and we seem to be on the same page now. Thank you!
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stacykay
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| Posted: April 14 2010 at 8:36am | IP Logged
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My two oldest boys started their schooling at our parish school. Oldest has April b'day, and was more than ready. The next had late Oct. b'day (born 4 weeks early, too.) When it came time to send #2ds to school, his preschool teacher, dh, and the Catholic school all said he was "smart" enough to go. He is also on the tall side, and they said he would fit in well.
But, he was still napping every afternoon, and in my heart of hearts, I just knew he wasn't ready. I couldn't convince anyone, so we sent him, startking K at 4 and 10 months. Well, he was tired all of the time. He became cranky when he was home. School became very stressful for him, and he cried, at school, everyday (we didn't learn about this until years later.) When I finally discovered hs'ing, I had to put him back a grade, and school has been a huge challenge for him, ever since (he is now in college, but still has to work so hard.)
I think the half-day program you found sounds great. Have you looked into your local library for any reading programs for kiddies? I can understand your dh having concerns, and the suggestions above, especially getting a scope and sequence for his age (our local public schools have s&s that we were able to get,) would be helpful.
Maybe, if you set up a regular schedule for your ds, that would help your dh see what you are doing. Some ideas, weekly library trips (and keep a "formal" record of every book read,) "art" day with painting/coloring/drawing/clay/etc., music day (recorders are inexpensive and fun and easy for littles to play,) physical education day (a walk around neighborhood or park, or swimming at rec. center) are some ideas. Also maybe schedule trips to parks (take a sketch book and have ds draw a picture of something every or every other time you go,) trips to zoo (maybe pick up a book from library on what his favorite animal was-he could also paint or model it out of clay,) trip to science museum, art museum, or whatever is near you. And just one or two a month. Pick up something like Mudpies to Magnets, and do one or two science projects a week.
But, mostly at this age, aside from being outdoors as much as we could, we read, read, read!
My 5yods loves animals, and his project this past year has been making an animal book. He is very into it. I have printed out animal pictures from different sites, including Enchanted Learning. He has them in a binder and loves to review them. His coloring isn't the greatest, but it has improved.
Also, if you want your son to have more exposure to other kiddies, what about the local Y or recreation center. Sign him up for t-ball, basketball, or swimming. My #2 ds made tons of friends from his sports teams.
Maybe for religion, have him do something like in Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum read Children's Bible to him, have him retell and write it down, letting him illustrate.
Maybe your dh wants to see something tangible from your days? I know my dh wants to hear from our boys what they did each day. He doesn't like it if they can't say something about our day.
If you go on walks, to museum or other trips, take photos and have ds tell you one thing about that trip. Write it down, add photo.
I think I would really work at keeping records of what you do, even watching a fun video like "Magic School Bus" or "Between the Lions," or whatever.
I hope some of these ideas help.
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
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JennGM
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dolorsofmary wrote:
| I loved the suggestion of how men see the work force as a difficult place and so they want their children esp. sons to be prepared and sothere fore put pressure on early sometimes. I shared that with my husband and he understood that very well. We talked and we seem to be on the same page now. Thank you! |
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I'm glad you and dh could talk. It is hard to communicate all the ideas in tangible ways that both can understand what we're trying to say!
My first son was an only child for 4 years, and it's so different just having one. There's no one to play with except Mommy and it does become draining at times. But remember to let him have fun and enjoy his age and be a boy. The learning should be active and fun. Don't forget to check out the great sticky of Early Learning Resources.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 14 2010 at 5:12pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| The teacher does seem to be against rennaissance art since there are a lot of unmentionable body parts shown. My son is young enough I feel since he still even now b'feeds a little that - what's one more br***t? and he knows what he looks like so to see a picture of venus de milo or the statue of david big deal. |
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Just remember that teacher's do have to take into account all the parents and you'll find this one is all over the board.
What about the boy who wasn't b'fed? What about the girl without any younger exhibitionist brothers? The reasoning you use just doesn't follow through for every person. And even then, many people will feel that seeing an adult woman or man in art or otherwise is simply not ok. While others without even the whole.. they see themselves or b'feed.. will find art like that to be fine for their family.
Maybe you could find art that doesn't show anyone without sufficient clothing to share with the teacher and so be able to use that in class?
Quote:
| They are a little rigid where all women and girls must wear skirts or dresses below the knee and shoulders must be covered. I think modesty is a must but I hate wearing skirts but oh well. I bought my skirts at good will so I am ready even though it is a sacrifice for me becuase i love my jeans. SO I think all will be well. |
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It can be a sacrifice to wear something that it out of our norm. Whether it is skirts or pants or a level of formality that is different.
I don't have time to find the right threads now.. but there have been lots of threads about skirts.. some ladies wear them all the time and so just about any problem you might have has probably been discussed.. styles that work better for getting things done.. how to wear skirts in hot weather, or in cold weather.
I think in general, A-line skirts that are mid-calf length are great for most tasks.. you can sit on the floor with the kids.. run in them.. pretty much whatever.. and the A-line doesn't have so much fabric that you have to "manage" them. And in denim they hold up to abuse plus you can get some with nice pockets and have a great place to put all those little things like legos and hotwheels when you're picking things up.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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4Real Forums : Nurturing the Years of Wonder
Topic: disunification over intensity of homescho
