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NicKatMommy
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| Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:10pm | IP Logged
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Hi, just wondering if anyone out there has an opinion about the Classical Conversation program. I'm particularly curious to know people's opinions about what seems to me (what little I know of the program) to be a lot of memorization and whether that is the antithesis of a Charlotte Mason approach. My son is four years old so I believe the appropriate CC program would be "Foundations". Thanks!
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Angi
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| Posted: March 24 2009 at 12:18pm | IP Logged
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We are considering CC for next year also.
I have a bit to say about the program, but am too sick to type it all out right now. I will try to remember to come back to this later. If not, bug me about it ;)
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Natalia
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We have been doing CC for two years now. CC follows the Classical Model of Education so yes, there is a lot of memorization at the Elementary level. My youngest was a little older that your son when we started.
The program is 24 weeks long. At each meeting the memory work for the present week is introduced. During the week you work with your child to help them memorize the information. They memorize history sentences, a history timeline, math facts, science facts, Latin vocabulary and some rules, geography facts and grammar. In addition to the memory work, each week they do a science and an art or music project. They also work on given short speeches.
I like what memorization does. I think it helps them to train their brain to retain information. I also think that memorizing facts (even when they don't fully understand what they are memorizing)gives them pegs in which to hang the knowledge they will acquire later. I have seen that with my now 7 yob, especially with the History sentences and the timeline.
I have a post that might be of some help. If you have some more specific questions let me know and I will try to answer them.
I don't think is that opposed to a CM approach. Of course I am not a CM purist but you can add a lot of CM methods to what you do at home. The memorization work does not take that long specially your son being young. Once you do the basic memory work, there is a lot of things you can do. You can also let CC guide you content. For example you can do picture study the CM way but using the artist that CC is presenting on a given cycle. You can do the same with the composers. You can do nature study or science study too. You can practice narration with your own religion studies and picture book or chapter book reading. You see?
I am babbling now if you have any questions let me know
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Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
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LisaR
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| Posted: March 24 2009 at 6:31pm | IP Logged
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Natalia wrote:
I like what memorization does. I think it helps them to train their brain to retain information. I also think that memorizing facts (even when they don't fully understand what they are memorizing)gives them pegs in which to hang the knowledge they will acquire later. I have seen that with my now 7 yob, especially with the History sentences and the timeline.
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We are using and in a CC program for the first time this year. (foundations, for my 2 youngest boys, plus Maria is along for the ride!  )
I ditto what Natalia said.
Maria amazes me (and the strangers at the grocery store and the boys from the high school carpool!! )
with all of the information she has not only memorized but actually is retaining and understanding, in her own way, especially the History topic sentences!
I wish that I had discovered this program sooner, but I think it really has only blossomed in the past 2-3 years or so...
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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NicKatMommy
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| Posted: March 24 2009 at 9:23pm | IP Logged
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Thanks so much for all that helpful info. I will certainly check it out during one of their info nights. It sounds like something to consider for when my son gets a little older. Thanks again! --Nelda
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HeatherS
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| Posted: March 24 2009 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
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Hello Nelda,
We're finishing our first year of Classical Conversations - our girls are 5-1/2, 4-1/2, 3 and 19 mos. I ditto what Natalia said as well, and Lisa too!
I use, and plan, rather hope, to use the Foundations Guide as the spine of our learning at home over the years. It has been such a blessing to our family even just this first year. My dh is absolutely amazed at what our 3 oldest - even our 3 year old! - have learned. And they definitely look forward to CC each week.
I agree that the memory work serves as mental pegs which, over the years and with maturity, etc. the children will be able to delve more deeply into to learn more. Right now we listen to the audio CD an awful lot. At the young ages our girls are at, and based on their interests, the timeline cards, history, geography and science are what we enjoy reading more about at home. I have a Classical Conversations basket where, each week, I put in books that pertain to the memory work that we are covering in CC that week. More often than not, it leads to our 2 older girls asking for more books about George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, the Great Lakes, the orchestra (I am using the Montessori For Everyone 3 part instrument cards which are a big hit w/our little ones), etc. CC begins the 1st half of the year teaching all of the Foundations children how to draw beginning with the basics. This led my 4 year old to want to learn more about how to draw, and she prodded me to teach her more until I broke down & got Mark Kistler's book.
I do not know if there is a connection, but I had worked with my oldest over last summer in doing narration. She, and my second daughter as well, seems to have gotten better in her narrations as this year went on. It has led me to wonder, because they always have enjoyed being read to! and both girls have very different learning styles, if doing some of this memory work hasn't aided in their ability to narrate better? Not sure. Could be way off base. Still thinking on that one. Maybe more experienced homeschooling moms could offer insight there.
I'm sorry that I've rambled on! As a Catholic, who happens to direct our CC program, and a homeschooling mom who loves the MM and CM methods as well, I've found CC to be a wonderful blessing in our homeschool.
All the best-
heather
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: March 24 2009 at 11:04pm | IP Logged
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Ladies, is this the correct link for Classical Conversations? If it is, I'm going to link it in the first post....but just making sure.
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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julia s.
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| Posted: March 25 2009 at 6:58am | IP Logged
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I'm curious do you do this with a group or just on your own?
The website looks as if it's with a group.
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julia
married to love of her life
with ds12 ds8 ds3 and ds1
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Natalia
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| Posted: March 25 2009 at 7:02am | IP Logged
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Yes it is, Suzanne.
Thanks
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Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
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Natalia
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| Posted: March 25 2009 at 7:17am | IP Logged
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Julia,
Once a week you meet with a group and then you work at home on the memory work for the week. They do sell the curriculum guide and CDs and you could do it alone at home. The kids and I like to have the social interaction. For us, the social interaction has been the big draw.
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Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
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NicKatMommy
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| Posted: March 25 2009 at 7:37pm | IP Logged
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I must admit I still have a question about the basis of CC ... that is, all the memorization. I guess I was under the impression that a CM approach would not encourage memorization since it seems, to me, that living books/narration is the opposite of an approach that uses the memorization of facts. But when I recall he Ambelside (sp?)Online suggested curriculum for four-year-olds I believe it suggests some memory work ... I think poetry or scripture. So I guess my bigger question is, to what extent, it at all, should preschoolers/kindergartners do memory work? Thanks again for the help!
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Natalia
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| Posted: March 25 2009 at 9:23pm | IP Logged
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NicKatMommy wrote:
| I must admit I still have a question about the basis of CC ... |
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CC is based on a classical model of education. If you go to this linkat the very bottom of the page there is a link to a pdf file that explains a little more about the Classical Model.
Quote:
| I guess I was under the impression that a CM approach would not encourage memorization since it seems, to me, that living books/narration is the opposite of an approach that uses the memorization of facts. |
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As I mentioned before I am not a CM expert or a purist for that matter but I agree with you that memorization doesn't seem to be at the heart of a CM approach to education. But, I don't think it is opposed to it either. As you mentioned, Ambleside encourages memorization of poems and bible verses.
The CC approach to education would be more along the lines of Laura Berquist. ARe you familiar with Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum? It is Berquist's book and it gives a good explanation of Classical education.
Quote:
| So I guess my bigger question is, to what extent, it at all, should preschoolers/kindergartners do memory work? Thanks again for the help! |
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Again it depends on who is answering your question. A proponent of Classical Education will tell you that they should be memorizing all sorts of things. A proponent of Unit Studies or Montessori would probably tell you that memorization is a non-issue. I guess what I am trying to say is that the answer to this question is a matter of how YOU want to approach education. I never did memory work with my kids when they that young with my older kids. My youngest (7yob) is on the Foundations program at our local CC group and he is memorizing tons of stuff-history sentences, a timeline, math facts,science facts.
The beauty of CC for me has been that it has given order and content to our memory work. When I read TWTM (The Well Trained Mind), Susan Wise Bauer talked about the grammar stage of CE and the importance of memorization. The thing is that the memorization seemed random to me. She'd say you can have them memorize the list of kings of England or the pharaohs of Egypt. Well why in the world would I want them to do that? I know that she proposes it as a mental exercise but I rather they memorize things that would be useful to them AND exercise their mind at the same time. CC organizes the memory work by topic but also by themes. For example this year all the history sentences are based on American History, the science facts are organized around the human body for the first half and around chemistry for the second half. So they memorize things that they are going to use in the future.
I hope I don't sound like I am selling CC, but for a person that thinks that memory work at the grammar stage is important, CC it is a great way of making sure that memory work does happen.
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Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
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seven2hold
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Hi. Just wanted to jump in here and add my 2 cents. We LOVE CC! Just two of my boys took part this past year. My 7yo did Foundations and my 10yo did Foundations & Essentials. Next year we are signing up our 3yo dd (she'll be 4 in the early fall) and our 5yo ds (6 in the summer).
I love the fact that I have an outline. My students and I both have some accountability. However, they have a tutor, but I am the teacher. Nothing is graded and they are not tested at CC. They play games to review material covered - that's the closest it comes to testing.
Best things about CC (that I can think of at 10:45PM):
The boys stood in front of their classes every week and gave presentations (sometimes written and sometimes just sharing knowledge). They were encouraged to speak loud & clear and make eye contact. The teacher took notes on their ability and it was obvious they had made great improvement.
I love the Essentials class They diagram EVERY class. They also do the EIW writing program and they do math drills games.
Science experiments EVERY week. No more guilt! :o)
They memorized the states & capitals, the US Presidents, the Preamble to the US Constitution, and the list of rights in the Bill of Rights. They also memorized 22 American history statements with dates (pegs) from Columbus to the 9/11 attacks.
They learned (did not memorize fully) John 1:1-6 in English & Latin.
They learned (still working on memorization) the multiplication tables up to 15 and other math facts - these don't change from cycle to cycle, so I didn't push these. They will get these Every year.
The boys liked the songs and the memory tricks they learned. It made learning the material very easy. They LOVE easy! I love easy! We love CC!
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Kathy
Wife to John
Mother to DD(91), DD(93), DD(95), DS(98), DD(00), DS(01), DS(03), DD(05), and DS(07)
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HeatherS
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| Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:56pm | IP Logged
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I ditto what Natalia said (sorry, I'm not sure how to post a quote yet) as far as it depends on who you're speaking to and what educational philosophy(ies) resonates with them. And also what you desire for your children in your learning at home.
As far as the memorization for the very young, 4 & 5's, I'm happy that, while CC is the spine that we use at home, CC completely supports the parent as the primary educator, and we can do the memory work as we choose to, or not. It can be done gently, i.e. listening to the audio CD (like my girls would listen to a fav. story on tape). We have a wonderful tutor for the Abecedarians (4 & 5 y.o. class) who has them up & marching, singing, etc. to learn their new memory work as well as reviewing the past weeks'. They're definitely not sitting glued to chairs chanting memory work. That's a plus too...I've gotten lots of ideas from the Tutors in our CC group as to how to intro. and review memory work at home.
I know that all of us teach our children their prayers, Bible verses, etc. It makes sense to me that we could also expose them to great information - grammar - about history, science, geography, etc.
What I've also liked about CC, and classical ed. at this point, is that it is so straightforward & concrete to me...maybe that is what I needed as a newbie homeschooling mom? Leigh Bortins' genius, imho, in the Foundations Program is that everything in each cycle is so interconnected and well laid out - this year in Cycle 3 they are studying Amer. Hist., Amer. artists and their style during the art portion of the CC morning so that, eventually, the children will come to see that all of these things are interconnected. Nothing is studied in isolation.
The timeline cards, (of course it would be great if there were Catholic timeline cards like the ones from Veritas Press out there, but we use the front art work, which is really quite nice, I think, & the point from history only), are reviewed every year. So what I see happening over time is that the points along the timeline and the images that are associated with them are *sticking* in my daughters' memory...(as an aside, there are neat sign language-type motions that the youngers ones learn to remember the timeline cards)...and may be file cabinets, if you will, that they can place more specific historical events in correspondence to as they get older b/c they have learned the big picture of history from Creation to Present, brought to life in the day-to-day with living books, etc. in our learning at home.
We love CC!! I am so grateful to the wonderful ladies who brought it to our attention here in Central IL. 
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LisaR
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HeatherS wrote:
They're definitely not sitting glued to chairs chanting memory work. That's a plus too...I've gotten lots of ideas from the Tutors in our CC group as to how to intro. and review memory work at home.
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isn't that the truth!!!
this is brilliant how it is so interconnected. I also like getting back to our Catholic 'roots" by studying in a classical way.
I've spoken with a few parents who attended boarding schools in Europe and India, run by religious, and they say Classical Conversations is so similar to their educations!!
I'd encourage anyone to attend a free one or three day practicum in your area. well worth the time!
most have programs for your children, as well, so that the entire family can experience a taste of classical education in a group setting!
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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teachingmyown
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Okay, let me ask one question to clarify something. What is my level of participation as a parent at the weekly meetings? It's not like a co-op where I am responsible for preparing something, is it? That was one reason we dropped out of our co-op. I don't like that pressure. 
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Natalia
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Molly,
As a parent your participation at the weekly meetings is limited to helping with the classes. In our group the moms are assigned to one of the classes and while in there they help the tutor with whatever is being done. There is no preparation involved on your part. The only preparation you have to do is to work with your children during the week so they will learn their stuff. Once a year, at least in ours, your family will have a family presentation to do in front of the whole assembly during morning meeting. And that is pretty much it.
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Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
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HeatherS
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Molly,
CC isn't a drop off program, so the non-tutoring parents hang out in the back of the classroom, or divide their time amongst the classrooms that their children are in. I know I've done some meal planning, kept my toddlers busy in the back of the room with quiet work...
heather
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Mary G
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I'm loving what I'm hearing/reading about CC, but I have a couple of questions: is it pricey? and how is the science handled (since it is a Christian-based curriculum I'm wondering about creationism???)
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Natalia
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Mary,
It is pricey compare to what we were doing before. Foundations is about 312 tuition plus a registration and supplies fee. And then the materials. The primary materials you will need would be the curriculum guide and the CD for the current cycle. The are other "extras" and supplements that are not necessary.Essentials, which is a program for 4th through 6th grade, is also 312. Both programs run for 24 weeks. So if you break it down by week it is not that expensive.It comes out at about 12 to 15 dollars/week.
I have my high schooler enrolled in their challenge program. The Challenge programs run for 30 weeks and they are much more expensive, at about a 1000 dollars depending on how many of the seminars you are enrolled in. When we compare it to the local Catholic school it was definitely more affordable for us.
Regarding the science, at the Foundations level they just learn facts. This year they memorized the different organ systems and some chemistry. They also have memorized some of the basic theories of sciences. Evolution was defined something like " it is the theory that states that life began as a chance combination of non living things" ( i am paraphrasing here). The short answer, it is not an issue at the Foundations level, I think because they just memorize, they don't dig into it.
At the Challenge level, it becomes more of an issue since they use Apologia Science books.
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Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
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4Real Forums : Nurturing the Years of Wonder
Topic: Classical Conversations
