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Elizabeth
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This thread is a corollary to the Atrium thread on the Real Learning board. My question is, if one uses Moira's guides and establishes all three levels of the atrium at home, making all those presentations, is that and living the liturgical year as a family the entirety of religious ed? What I mean is, what other resources, curricula, etc are necessary for a thorough education through 12 yo?
And then, the question that my parish's trainer never really answered to our satisfaction: how did Montessori suggest we prepare children for confirmation?
And incidentally, did anybody find St. Therese's first communion retreat (in Story of a Soul or Story of a Family--I can't remember) to sound very much like a MOntessori retreat? Perhaps, this kind of preparation wasn't unique to MOntessori at the time...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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I can't answer your question Elizabeth, but I wanted to say I am wondering the same thing. When I look at the atrium materials I don't think it's complete enough for teaching the faith. But I'm coming from a different angle, I view the atrium as a supplement. If this should be the opposite, please let me know!
Elizabeth wrote:
| And incidentally, did anybody find St. Therese's first communion retreat (in Story of a Soul or Story of a Family--I can't remember) to sound very much like a Montessori retreat? Perhaps, this kind of preparation wasn't unique to Montessori at the time... |
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I think it was in both books. I don't know what a Montessori retreat is like, but that first communion retreat really impressed me. First of all, it's removing the child from family and event distractions to focus on the wonderful event that will be taking place...in other words, focusing on the spiritual and God part rather than the community. Secondly, it treats the young child as an adult, helping them develop and build their inner prayer life. That is huge in my book...and I do see that in the atrium material. It's not only rote material, but it's giving space for the child to nurture his one-on-one relationship with God.
I've struggled with what would be the ideal preparation and reception of the sacraments when so many distractions come flying around when preparing for the event. The actual spiritual side often gets lost in the shuffle. Especially with those 6-7 year olds who are so easily distracted! 
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mumofsix
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I am bumping this up as I am interested in any possible replies. I have Moira's albums and love them. They are the best thing I have ever seen for home catechesis. We also of-course celebrate the liturgical year in various ways. In a "Living Learning" household there will always be a lot of reading aloud and the bible and saints' stories come in there. (My children have a tape and book set of Cliff Richards telling bible stories which to the adult ear is EXCRUCIATING but which captivates them totally.)
However, I keep thinking, surely children also need to be drilled in the catechism? Our Catholic schools have turned out a generation of children woefully ignorant of the faith at least partly because they have been denied any access to religious language. Don't our children need those mantras we learned pre-Vatican II that embedded Catholic doctrine in our minds as indelibly as the times tables?
I have been working through the Faith and Life series with my dd 8 in preparation for First Holy Communion. Now she is the Queen of Workbooks but even she is beginning to wilt slightly at yet another colouring page or wordsearch or fill in the blanks exercise. The information is embedding, but it is a boring process. I would love to let go of this if I could be convinced that she would still grasp and retain her Catholic doctrine without it. Any thoughts? Has anyone produced a child well formed in Catholic doctrine without recourse to a catechetical scheme?
Jane.
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ALmom
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One fun way to learn the Catechism, is to make cards out of them and have a game of it. That was recommended in CHC 2nd grade. They have great ideas for weaving both - also we do use Faith and Life - but don't do every workbook page, just the ones most appealing to dc or the ones that really involve answering questions to see what has sunk in so I know what we need to talk about in a different way. Also we take our time and supplement real stories from the Bible or lives of the saints and disciples. We're not great memorizers of the catechism - I never got it and felt it leaves me very handicapped. I think the trick is to prioritize and keep the pace right for your family. I am looking at all the info on the atrium as we have not done that - just tried to have prayer corners/tables etc. but want to build that quiet time and reflection into our day. I keep looking at all the information you ladies share.
Janet
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Leonie
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Like Janet, I am still looking at the atrium idea.
I have been reluctant to spend the money on Moira's albums, because of the exchange rate and postage.
However, I am reading through On Catechesis In Our Time and thought it might answer my questions re catechesis.
Still reading!
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Tina P.
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mumofsix wrote:
| My children have a tape and book set of Cliff Richards telling bible stories which to the adult ear is EXCRUCIATING but which captivates them totally. |
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I thought that living literature, to include tapes, must be as appealing to adults as it is to children. I don't know whether Jim Weiss has any biblically oriented tapes, but he's a true storyteller. Our whole family can listen to him over and over again. Look for him here:
http://www.allegro-music.com/artist_search.asp?artist=weiss, %20jim
Other than that, I've heard great things about Your Story Hour Tapes. I know they're Christian, but I don't know what kind of Christian and that's what prevents me from taking the plunge on these. If anyone here has a positive experience of these tapes, I'd love to hear about it!
http://www.homeschoolbooksource.com/YourStoryHour.html
mumofsix wrote:
| However, I keep thinking, surely children also need to be drilled in the catechism? Our Catholic schools have turned out a generation of children woefully ignorant of the faith at least partly because they have been denied any access to religious language. Don't our children need those mantras we learned pre-Vatican II that embedded Catholic doctrine in our minds as indelibly as the times tables? I have been working through the Faith and Life series with my dd 8 in preparation for First Holy Communion. Now she is the Queen of Workbooks but even she is beginning to wilt slightly at yet another colouring page or wordsearch or fill in the blanks exercise. The information is embedding, but it is a boring process. |
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My *own* religious education was woefully inadequate. By the time I hit High School, our religion classes centered on reflection papers and moods and feelings more than the tenets of the one true faith.  I learn along with my children. How about having the children read a chapter of Faith and Life or (my preference)the Image of God series and then narrate it to you. If they *want* to do some seatwork, they can draw a picture of what they read or compose a prayer to the person about whom they read. I think in that case, reading/narrating a chapter a week and doing a reinforcement activity (relating the story in their own words, drawing a picture of the story, composing a prayer...), living the faith, doing some liturgical year projects (including saints' feast days during ordinary time), and an atrium would probably keep you busy, active, and retaining the whole year through (who needs workbooks?).
Gee, this sounds so good, I ought to try it!
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Meredith
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Tina P. wrote:
mumofsix wrote:
| I have been working through the Faith and Life series with my dd 8 in preparation for First Holy Communion. Now she is the Queen of Workbooks but even she is beginning to wilt slightly at yet another colouring page or wordsearch or fill in the blanks exercise. The information is embedding, but it is a boring process. |
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My *own* religious education was woefully inadequate. How about having the children read a chapter of Faith and Life or (my preference)the Image of God series and then narrate it to you. Gee, this sounds so good, I ought to try it! |
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This does sounds great!
My catechism was marginal at best and we are trying to do a better job through our home school journey.
That being said, I think narration plays a huge part for retention of our faith for our children, much more so than the workbooks!
One thing that I have always had my children do, and it can be an ongoing project throughout the liturgical year, is make their own prayer books. CHC touches on these in their 1st grade LP's and for 1st Communion prep, but we've taken them quite a bit further and really made them special to each child. Or rather they have made their books special in their own way. Just a thought I'd be happy to share particulars if anyone is interested.
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Tina P.
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Do atrium materials need to be chunky wooden (I'm guessing they are from the pictures) items? Or can they be felt pieces or farm animals from a set? Of course, you'd have to come up with a shepherd, in the latter case. I mean, how creative can we be? If we can cut pieces out of felt and the kids could attach them to felt boards as they work their way through the stories, we might test the limits of our cutting prowess and save groups of money, no?
How many parables are addressed in the young years? Is it only parables that are introduced? Are the parables strictly liturgically oriented so that the child is centered on what happens up there at the altar?
And one more question: if my son is now 11 years old, would he not benefit from an atrium environment? I know maturity matters more than chronological age. And this son is my eldest who tends to like to play with younger kids because that's mostly who wants to play with him (but it took him years of fighting this tendency and trying to play with whatever older kids he could find through church or homeshcool groups).
This atrium thread is quite interesting.
God bless,
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Mary G
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Here's what I'm dong with my littles -- 3, 5 and 6 yo dc --
catechism by way of Faith and Life and the Atrium manual from Moira -- which is definitely worth the money Leonie as it is a magnificent product. I was skeptical at first, but I'm definitely a big fan now 
saints thru the Once Upon a Time Saints and More Once Upon a Time Saints (which also ties in geography with tracing where the saitns were -- not my idea, but that of the ladies who do Mater Amabilis  ).
Finally, living the liturgical year through feast days (particularly Marian feasts), daily Mass (not DAILY though, unfortunately  ) and other celebrations using ideas from the CHC A Year with God
I don't think you can just do Atrium -- Moira's album for the 3-5 year olds doesn't just do "atrium" -- she goes beyond and brings in Advent celebrations and Lenten celebrations.
I think you need to do both book learning and atrium-style things to imbue your entire day with your faith -- a living faith that the kids will relish in as you take away the dryness of just memorizing the catechism (some does need to be done, IMHO) or reading F&L.
Does this help?
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mumofsix
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I had an excellent religious education at my primary school and a terrible one at my secondary school. I am an expert on both in terms of being on the receiving end.
Religious education is so different from other "subjects" in the curriculum. We teach our children science and history etc. without wanting them necessarily to become scientists or historians. But we teach religion because we want them to become united with God for all eternity: experts in other words! One could become anxious  .
Pre-Vatican II the emphasis was on doctrine and the soundness thereof and the criticism was that children could end up being able to trot out doctrinal formulae without any personal experience of a relationship with a loving Lord and saviour. Post Vatican II the emphasis changed and the insistence was that religious education should be rooted in children's own experiential realities, hence the avoidance of "difficult" words/concepts like "sacrifice" and the emphasis on the Mass as meal shared. Unfortunately the downgrading of the Mass into some sort of spiritual Happy Meal did not have the effect of nurturing greater love between children and their saviour!
Leonie - what I think is special about Moira Farrell's albums is that they achieve this essential balance between imparting doctrinal information in a way that is sensitive to a child's readiness but does not in any way water it down, while at the same time nurturing the child's own special relationship with a loving Lord. Spirituality is married with theology, if you like, in a very sensitive, child-centred way. I have seen nothing remotely like it and it is well worth the postage!
This is what I have decided to do with my ds 3 and dd 8. We will do a presentation (one for each of them) from Moira's albums once weekly. We also have a daily family prayer time during which, as well as the usual prayers, we have a reading. I am going to use Canon Drinkwater's "Abbreviated Catechism with Explanations" and the companion volume "250 Catechism Stories" which illustrate sometimes complex doctrines with stories. (The catechism referred to is the old "Penny Catechism" from which the Baltimore catechism was derived.)
This is the way I learned as a young child: we drilled the catechism, yes, but we learned what it all meant through the medium of story-telling. This embedded the doctrine in my mind and heart enduringly. Bible stories and saint stories of-course also come in here and are invaluable. I think the combination will be a winning one.
I do like the "Faith and Life" series very much, though not the new workbooks which contain much busy work. My dd 8 actually likes workbooks, to the extent that I have to help her use her time better occasionally! We will finish the one we are working on which is nearly done, then give them a nice long rest!
Incidentally, I know little about Montessori (these albums make me want to find out more) and you would not need to be a Montessori devotee to get a tremendous amount out of the albums. They will also enhance your understanding of and enjoyment in the Liturgical year celebrations as well. But I think the greatest plug: it refeshes my own faith and love of the Lord, and of how many religious ed programmes can you say that?!
Jane.
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Elizabeth
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Tina P. wrote:
| Do atrium materials need to be chunky wooden (I'm guessing they are from the pictures) items? Or can they be felt pieces or farm animals from a set? Of course, you'd have to come up with a shepherd, in the latter case. I mean, how creative can we be? If we can cut pieces out of felt and the kids could attach them to felt boards as they work their way through the stories, we might test the limits of our cutting prowess and save groups of money, no? |
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If you go to Godly Play you will see examples of flat figures to use. Godly Play was designed for hospitals and so it's not as bulky.
Tina P. wrote:
| How many parables are addressed in the young years? Is it only parables that are introduced? Are the parables strictly liturgically oriented so that the child is centered on what happens up there at the altar? |
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A typcial CGS Level 1 program looks like this:
Altar 1-3
Litrugical Colors and Chasuables
Litrugical Calendar
Preparation of the CRuets
Vestments
Introduction to the Prayer Corner
The Bible in the Prayer Corner
Prayer Cards
Silence Exerceise
Geography: Globe and topography of Israel
Puzzle map of Israel
City of Jerusalem
Prophecy of Light
Prophecy of Names
Prophecy of Names
Prophecy of Place
Prohecy of the Mother
Prophecy of the Star and Sceptre
The Annunciation
The Visitation
The Nativity
The Magi
The Presentation
Parables:
Mustard Seed
Pearl
Leaven
Grain
Hidden Treasure
Mystery of Life and Death
Good Shepherd:
Good Shepherd
FOund Sheep 23rd psalm
Eucharistic Presence 1 &2
The Cenacle
Empty Tomb
Gestures of the Eucharist
Baptism 1-3
Liturgy of the Light
Advent
Lent
Pentecost
After spending much time on Suzanne's list, the above seems pretty universal, with some tweaking in individual programs. Godly Play differs slightly and does not seem to be as richly rooted in liturgy (probably because it's not Catholic). Moira's 3-5 album is slightly different, yet again. It's also down two flights of stairs  Hopefully, she'll explain the differences.
Tina wrote:
One more question: if my son is now 11 years old, would he not benefit from an atrium environment? I know maturity matters more than chronological age. And this son is my eldest who tends to like to play with younger kids because that's mostly who wants to play with him (but it took him years of fighting this tendency and trying to play with whatever older kids he could find through church or homeshcool groups).
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We all benefit from an atrium environment. I had the best afternoon I've had in a very long time today. Today was our first official atrium day at home. He can certainly learn quite a bit! I have my older children write narrations of the presentations. They are making their own meaningful albums.There are layers upon layers of richness here.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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Elizabeth wrote:
We all benefit from an atrium environment. I had the best afternoon I've had in a very long time today. Today was our first official atrium day at home. He can certainly learn quite a bit! I have my older children write narrations of the presentations. They are making their own meaningful albums. There are layers upon layers of richness here.
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WOW!! That is just terrific, having the older kids writing narrations.
Could someone elaborate on the albums. Moira talked about each teacher writing up their own. Is it just the narrations on how to present the materials? Or more? Aren't her albums this already?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Elizabeth
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It's a compilation of "narrations" in a specific format. The catechist is supposed to write up the presentation for her own use. There is limited sharing of albums. I nkow the catechists at onen parish share a common album and are encouraged to make their own. There is sharing of album pages on elists as well.
Moira's books are indeed albums, not necessarily written in the style of the CGS albums. Moira's are true to Montessori philosophy, while enabling the mother at home to bring all the beauty of the presentations to her own children.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Tina P.
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So if we buy Moira's albums, is that all we need to pull off the program? Or how do you get a level, any level, program book from CGS? Or do we want that? Is that too parish-oriented (ie: CCD) and not enough home-oriented?
Also, I *did* see the Godly Play materials and must say that I wasn't impressed with the item quality (in appearance, anyway) vs price. What are those shepherds/sheep made of? Are there any other materials out there? And I'm *still* not clear on how many materials a family needs to get the most out of this program. I apologize for all the questions, but I'm truly interested and want to make informed decisions.
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amyable
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I just wanted to sneak in on this threat to say that my 7yo is now enrolled in both an atrium (not at home, but at a church through our homeschooling co-op) and our parish's CCD classes for 1st Communion. We did the CCD enrollment mostly because we wanted DD to know the people she was going to have this big ceremony with!  We don't regret the decision to do both (yet ), but...
in the last few days I'm awestruck with the depth of learning occuring in COGS even in just a few short weeks, in contrast to the parish CCD (can you say busywork? And shallow busywork at that?). CCD hasn't gotten much past "God is love".
I'm having trouble putting it into words, but those of you who have done COGS will probably understand. At first I thought COGS would be too much like "playing" to be of any value. I'm so glad I was wrong! This is deep stuff, and the children make it "theirs" in COGS. It's hard to make a workbook "yours" LOL! It reminds me of the Church holding the fullness of Truth. COGS seems to be full.
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Cay Gibson
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Tina P. wrote:
| So if we buy Moira's albums, is that all we need to pull off the program? |
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Tina,
I'm using Moria's albums with our hs group. The group is large (40+ children). Since I wouldn't want my dc to learn in a class of this size, I am considering opening my home-atrium on another day each month for smaller groups.
I'm waiting on more items from
Our Father's House and Catholic Montessori before opening it. I have to say that more is needed to pull off the program. Moria's albums offer the templates and instructions for making various items. But still more is needed. These two companies offer wonderful materials and sometimes you can find hsing familiies that have some of the items and are willing to share. But there is still more if you're wanting to "round-off" the whole enchilada (so to speak).
Things like: a *secret box* to place the focal item (such as the mustard seed during the presentation of the parable)
Materials for the art/craft activity.
Catholic storybook to go with presentation.
Portable *altar* to set-up complete with appropriate-colored liturgical cloth, crucifix, candle, statues.
A globe
Most of these items can be found easily and cheaply at the dollar store.
And there are things that can be made. I recently had my oldest ds make the platform for the Good Shepherd presentation and a wooden Jesse Tree that will be covered in green felt. The parents will be responsible for getting the felt pieces cut out and ready for the December class. Their dc will be able to place their JT ornament on the tree as it is read.
The parents are all aware that I have not taken a COGS class, but they seem to appreciate the research, time, energy, planning and dedication that I put into the presentations. I guess that can account for as much as taking a class. Afterall, don't we encourage our dc to self-learn? I do plan to take a COGS class in Houston once the 3 yr old is older.
I combine a Catholic literature study into my presentation as well as a art/craft activity. I'm attempting to capture CM, Montessori, FIAR, COGS, CHC, Natural Structure into one framework. Like Elizabeth, I have trouble using plans without elaborating or cutting back on them. I try to mesh everything together. I think this is my way of compensating for the different learning styles within my household.
Do I have hands-on learning for C and G? Do I have literature/FIAR approach for C and A? Do I have textbook/workbook included for K and C and enough for C to prepare for testing? Is Montessori included for C and A?
Catch my drift?
How to get this all squeezed in without getting overwhelmed or messy? CM's theory of short 15 minute lessons and Montessori teaching of organization with baskets/trays and structural learning has proven to be invaluable...especially when presenting the material to 40+ dc.
(Timeframe ~ 1 1/2 hour)
15 minutes ~ Storybook Time (literature approach)
15 minutes ~ Presentation from Moria's album
15 minutes ~ Pathway to Heaven book
15 minutes ~ Art/Craft
30 minutes ~ Montessori/hands-on approach (teacher steps back and allows the dc to interact with materials---I have not been able to do this with the co-op group as it is simply too large---thus my reason for wanting to open my home so that their dc may stop by to use the materials)
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Donna Marie
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Hi Cay!!
I am doing something similar with my own children but I haven't got the format down quite yet...I am distracted by the fact that my roof is under construction and my backyard is a mud bog, but I digress...
Which one of Moira's albums are you using and what books are you trying to incorporate....Do you stick with a particular theme for each meeting??
Got lots o questions ;)
God Love you!
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Genevieve
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Hi Cay,
I too am interested in finding which literature book you use to coincide with the which presentation? Or do you use your
Illustrated Book Study
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Cay Gibson
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Donna Marie wrote:
Hi Cay!!
I am doing something similar with my own children but I haven't got the format down quite yet... |
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That makes two of us, Donna! 
Today I'm wondering what I did wrong! I hope Moria is still here to tell me.
I did the parable of the merchant and the pearl yesterday with our co-op class. I did it exactly how Moria explains it in her album.
Once I had moved away all the merchant's belongings and left him sitting on the green felt with his prized pearl (explaining that he was willing to sell everything he had to possess the pearl), I asked the dc (grades 3 - preK) how they felt about him doing that.
They stared.
Then I asked if they would have done the same to possess a pearl of great beauty.
They all shook their heads.
And, I knew exactly what they were thinking.
Give up their homes, their cloak, their chest of jewels, etc. !!!
For one pearl!!!
They looked at me like I was crazy.
Of course, I went on asking them how this was like the Kingdom of Heaven and all Moria's other questions. Tried not to *explain* as much as ask and get them thinking. I was using the 3-5 album but they didn't seem to grasp why the merchant would do such a thing.
I had to smile to myself, but I can't help but wonder if I did something wrong. Or if this is natural. I'm sure this is the point where the materials must be left available to the child to re-enact and mull over in his own mind. Of course, only my dc have the materials available to them at this time.
Any suggestions or thoughts?
I'm wondering if their reaction was part of our living in such a materialistic world.
Donna Marie wrote:
| Which one of Moira's albums are you using and what books are you trying to incorporate....Do you stick with a particular theme for each meeting?? |
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I'm using the 3-5 album (level I). None of these children have had any exposure to CoGS. Their parents have not heard of it either so I'm thinking of inviting the parents to a small workshop and possibly getting Mary (from New Iberia) to come over and help me. She moderators the Montessori playschool list and we've met at conference and discussed MOntessori/CoGS.
I just invested in the 6-9 album and love it! It's a goldmine. But I have lots of time to study it. I'm going to focus on using the first album with my dc and this group.
I do use a different theme each month and I try to use a literature book that follows that theme.
And I try to use the parable or lesson that links in with it nicely.
August ~ Marion Theme
September ~ Church/Altar Theme
October ~ Respect for Life
November ~ All Souls/All Saints
December ~ Jesus' Birth
January ~ Epiphany
Feburary ~ God's Love
MArch ~ Reconcillation
April ~ Communion
May ~ Month of Mary
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
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| Posted: Oct 29 2005 at 9:05am | IP Logged
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Genevieve wrote:
Hi Cay,
I too am interested in finding which literature book you use to coincide with the which presentation? |
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Genevieve,
These are the *planned* books. But plans have been known to re-route.
Fall Semester
August (Marion Theme)
Juanita and Our Lady of the Angels by Elizabeth Loch
(We made a Mary's garden in round plastic planter holders)
* This one is moved to January due to the hurricane
September (Church/Altar Theme)
A Peek into my Church by Wendy Goody & Veronica Kelly/ Ginny Pruitt
(Make Mosaic Cross)
October (Pro-Life)
Angel in the Waters by Regina Doman
(We adopted a spiritual baby)
November (All Souls/All Saints)
(Older Group) Father Phillip Tells a Ghost Story: A Story of Divine Mercy by Susan Andrews Brindle/ Miriam Andrews Lademan
(Younger group) I Sing a Song of the Saints of God by Lesbia Scott/ Judith Gwyn Brown
(Visit to cemetary to discuss prayers/respect/etiquette when visiting/why should we visit)
December (Christmas)
The Clown of God by Tomie dePaola
Spring Semester
(activities not planned yet)
January *see September
February (God's Love)
The Princess and the Kiss by Jennie Bishop
March (Reconcillation)
The Most Beautiful Thing in the World by Susan Brindle/ Ann Brindle/ Margaret Brindle
April (Communion) ~ The Weight of a Mass: A Tale of Faith by Josephine Nobisso/ Katalin Szegedi
May (Month of Mary) ~ Lovely Lady Dressed in Blue by the Andrews sisters
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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4Real Forums : Nurturing the Years of Wonder
Topic: If an atrium, is that all?
