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earthmaven
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 3:11pm | IP Logged
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I'm wondering how many of you have purchased a cursive movable alphabet for older children (my daughter is newly 7) and in what ways you've used it/found it helpful (or not).
My daughter is really gung-ho to start learning cursive and is doing well with it. I'm not sure if I'm just in love with the concept of the movable alphabet (I'm planning on ordering the regular small ones for my 4yo) but if she'd really do just as well with cursive workbooks and I should save the money for the myriad other things I keep finding. Your thoughts?
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Meredith
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 8:21pm | IP Logged
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I am going back and forth on this too, I am not sure if the cursive might be confusing after doing all of the print letters??? I am thinking about just going with cursive and skipping the print. Anyone else, Donna? Andrea? CatholicMommy?
Thanks ladies!
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Mackfam
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 8:46pm | IP Logged
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Curious too...
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Jen Mackintosh
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AndreaG
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 8:49pm | IP Logged
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I think the cursive moveable alphabet is for schools where cursive is introduced first. I think this is the more montessori approach. Cursive is supopsed to be easier b/c there are no reversal to worry about and children don't need to worry about lifting the pencil. I think the moveable alphabet is a 3-6 work, but if you think your older child would like to use it, why not? I was toying with the idea of making cursive sandpaper letters for my 8-year-old who will be learning cursive this year (hopefully!) and is not enthusiastic about writing at all.
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 9:17pm | IP Logged
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I'm honored that you ask for my opinion.  I am more and more developing a preference for introducing cursive first to begin with. But that's a different direction of conversation I think.
For later ages, I have indeed made and used a cursive movable alphabet so that the children (ages 7-10) could "see" and "read" how the letters flow into each other, then trace over the entire word several times before copying it down (either thay day or another day). Just for background: These are children who have struggled with other areas in public school and I have been tutoring them. I get them caught up and ahead in the necessities, then work on the handwriting and other areas that I hope will improve their confidence and skills and slow down any future set-backs in the necessities (we're moving out of state very very soon).
The movable alphabet I made is small cardstock rectangles with each letter's connecting lines going right to the edge of the card, so that it connects to the next and previous letters. I did leave them red and blue (permanent marker) for my son's future use, but for older children, they could easily be just one color. I made mine by hand, because I didn't want to fight with the computer and I couldn't find any online to just buy that have the lines all the way to the edge. I did laminate these ones, just with contact paper. And I did make 6 of each letter just to make sure there are enough.
I have indeed found that the children who know cursive first can read and write print just fine later, and while I'm sure the reverse is also true, it's also more work (for me!). So I'm working on a sandpaper cursive alphabet for my own son (currently 3), with the letters' lines going almost to the edge. The older children didn't seem to need the sandpaper so much, but perhaps they would have enjoyed it... didn't think of it at the time, so I can't say much for sandpaper for older children.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 02 2007 at 8:26pm | IP Logged
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I'm bumping this up...this is one of the things I think I missed on my orders. I'll need to wait a bit to order it, along with a few other things I think I might have missed, but I'm wondering did anyone order the set from Alison's? Is there another source that is affordable. I don't really want to make these myself. Anybody??
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Jen Mackintosh
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montessori_lori
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Okay, this is just my opinion, but unless you are introducing cursive first, I don't see the need for a cursive MA.
The reason is this: by the time children start cursive (after printing), they are past the stage of using a movable alphabet. It's a curious case (which I don't see often in Montessori) of the two different goals of the materials (sounding out words/learning cursive) not matching each other in learning stage.
Sister Mary had us introduce cursive in second grade - long after any MA activities - with a variety of different cursive exercises. The kids in her classes developed gorgeous handwriting (I know, because I saw it firsthand). But of course they all had gorgeous printing first.
Just my $0.02!
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earthmaven
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Thanks, Lori. And for the record, your two cents is worth much, much more than that! As always, your experience and insights are so greatly appreciated by us all.
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| Posted: July 02 2007 at 10:04pm | IP Logged
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Ditto what earthmaven said!
I need to think about this more - I have one learning, and one who needs to relearn and really benefits from the "seeing" - I could use a few more cents worth of your opinion Lori!!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Donna Marie
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I haven't used a cursive MA either. I have used the cursive "sandpaper" letters. Basically, all this was the result of a free night and lots o'fun with glitter glue on index cards for those that wanted to trace 
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Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc 
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montessori_lori
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| Posted: July 02 2007 at 10:10pm | IP Logged
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But, if you had a child who was still learning to read and spell, and was also interested in cursive, I can see how the cursive MA would be just the thing.
For my son, who's 6 and entering 2nd grade, I want to buy the Beautiful Handwriting series from Michael Olaf to start this fall. They have some other great handwriting resources as well.
Basically, I want to call up Michael Olaf and say, "One of everything, please!" I wish!
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earthmaven
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I get the same feeling whenever I check in on your site, Lori! I want it all :-)
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 03 2007 at 6:37am | IP Logged
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Ditto again earthmaven!!!!
Lori,
Can I ask you for a little more help? I have a 6yo ds - he's learned print, but I'm introducing him to cursive this year. Will the cursive MA be a benefit to him as he learns to form his letters and develops the hand skills for forming fluid cursive words? He would use them to help form blends and practice reading, as well as spelling.
Now, the other reason I want to get the alphabet is for my dd 10. Certainly, she has already learned cursive, but her writing is atrocious! And that's an understatement! I have done a good bit of reading all over the web, but it's a little disjointed because my information is coming from a number of sources. I bought the metal insets for her primarily, but also because I could use them with my 6 and almost 3 yo. She can gain valuable skills using the metal insets I think, and more than one site (that didn't sell them, just offered info) said they would be great for remediation. So...my thought was to use the metal insets with her. Then to help with visualizing the proper formation and flow of the letters, and to be used as her primary spelling practice, I thought of the cursive MA...I like that they can link together (unlike the sandpaper letters which don't come to the edge of the paper for letter linking, unless I made my set like Donna Marie did) so it looks more like a word after you put the links together. She has some mild dyslexic tendencies, so being able to see a word forming in front of her is helpful, and rearranging wooden letters is a lot less frustrating than erasing over and over, KWIM? Then, I might choose for her to do some copywork of the wooden letters for practice. So, I could be so way off base here, and I'd appreciate it if you would tell me. If I really don't need to be thinking in this direction, please let me know. Thanks for all your help!!! I'm so glad you pop in on us here!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 03 2007 at 7:32am | IP Logged
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Alright - I did a search on Michael Olaf and Beautiful Handwriting, and found some great info and reading here - really helpful! Should I be looking at Italics? They suggest some workbooks? I tried to navigate around a bit on the Michael Olaf site, but it's not very intuitive, at least not to my one-brain-celled self  I could never find the Beautiful Handwriting Series you suggest Lori - should I just order one of their catalogs? Not that I could afford Michael Olaf prices  but perhaps it would give me a few more ideas. I did love some things I read on their site..." Many great educators and philosophers have stated that there is nothing that cannot be taught if the student and the subject matter are well understood and creatively put in touch with each other. We try to make everything interesting, so that it will be enjoyed and retained." Affirming Isn't that what we try to do as homeschoolers?
Ok - I'll stop asking questions Lori. I hope you'll still pop in here.
Summary/Readers Digest version of questions:
1. Metal Insets? Your thoughts on using it for some remedial help?
2. Cursive MA? Will they be of help to a 10yo for visualization of letter formation and help with spelling?
3. Italics? Should I be turning my attention to Italics to form a bridge instead of working on cursive with the 10yo?
Thanks for being an awesome resource for me!
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Jen Mackintosh
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montessori_lori
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| Posted: July 03 2007 at 9:40am | IP Logged
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Yes, the metal insets would be very valuable. They're one of those materials that can be used with many ages. A couple used to sell high-quality plastic sets of insets on eBay for $35 - fantastic deal and we use them all the time. I'll let you know if I can find them online anywhere.
1. An older child could use them to create beautiful works of art - for instance, tracing the shape, then rotating the inset slightly, tracing again, etc. Then they can use a ruler to fill the shapes with lines, or gently shade them with colored pencils. I think it would be wonderful. Buy them some nice drawing paper and pencils so that it becomes an art material for them. They won't even know they're improving their hand/eye coordination and fine motor skills!
2. Cursive MA - I guess I'd get other handwriting materials instead; one thing about the cursive MA is that no matter how close you put the letters, they don't connect with each other the way cursive letters should. Also, for a 10yo, cursive and spelling can be two different pursuits: they shouldn't have to worry about having great handwriting while also trying to spell. Too much to think about. Spelling should be spelling, and cursive should be cursive. That's just me.
3. Whatever works, basically! You might want to get one italics workbook and if that's a hit, keep with it. If it's not, stick with straight cursive. I'm a huge believer in trial and error - you usually can't predict what will work until you try it. A 10yo should be an active participant in deciding what/how they learn, so you might want to let them try the italics and then decide on their own if they want to continue or not. They might surprise you.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 03 2007 at 9:52am | IP Logged
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These are great suggestions Lori! I have the metal insets already, so no need to go hunting there! I agree, one of the biggest draws for me was that they seemed more like art (a favorite subject) than handwriting practice and had applications for our other dc.
That is very valuable to know about the cursive MA not quite fitting/linking. I think I'm going to look into a good Italics workbook, but I'm not going to stress about this too much. I may forgo it altogether and really try to encourage beautiful penmanship through some very short copywork. Her handwriting is what it is at this point, perhaps a more relaxed approach to it is what she needs to inspire her own desire to take more pride in her penmanship.
These were really helpful suggestions Lori!!!! Thanks so much for the insight!
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Jen Mackintosh
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ALmom
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Jennifer:
I know we deal with major eye/hand issues in our house which means handwriting is atrocious over here as well. I'm glad to hear the info on the various materials. Here is an idea that I've thought about - making my own modified sandpaper cursive letters. The problem with the cursive letters for joining, even making the way Donna did is that you have different joinings depending on the letters. I've been trying to think of a way to make individual letters with various joinings and options - with maybe a color coded dot on the bottom to let child know which letters match for correct joinings. Haven't quite figured it out yet - but thinking about it. If I can figure it out then we would use this as another exercise prior to putting it to paper.
My biggest problem with my dc atrocious handwriting is that it is caused by extreme tension, and by stopping and starting. This child just won't do smooth motion. A technique taught us by the therapist is having them trace letters with joinings very large in the air just using the pointer finger. When they consistently get the flow right in the air, only then do you even attempt to take it to paper. I also tell my dc, that I'd rather see the flow even if the letters are light. You can also write on their back, etc.
I will say that really the underlaying problem is not the handwriting as much as it is the fact that the child does not cross midline so really if I am being true to Montessori then I would begin at where the child is which is much earlier than any writing at all, even though this child is 6th grade.
I'm still thinking and praying about this.
Janet
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CatholicMommy
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Making the cursive letters:
Both for the movable alphabet I've already made and for the sandpaper one in progress, I've made the lines so they begin and end in the same location (about halfway up/down the letters) and the lines go all the way to the edge. This way they do connect, and for the most part the movement is entirely smooth. This works for tracing the letters, since the children adjust their own handwriting when actually doing the writing anyway. I'd forgotten about that little roadblock that I had when I first started making them, but it seems to be working nicely.
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Donna Marie
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FWIW, I did make some simple words in the glitter glue on large index cards for teaching the joining of the letters...I used red glitter glue for the consonants and blue for the vowels. I got it in a squeezable bottle from Michaels and my kiddoes thought they were "pretty" and of course wanted to touch them. One of the very first things I did was to make their full name in cursive...the whole shabang on a sentence strip and kept it in a pocket chart designed for sentence strips...
A few of my children still hate cursive. But this made it more attractive for them and at least they can sign their name
How cool is it when a 4yo, who is not really writing yet SIGNS his name on his artwork...although he says he prefers his name in GREEN glitter glue...
God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 03 2007 at 11:29am | IP Logged
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Ok - well I'm glad I'm not the only one dealing with the cursive monster.
Are any of you trying to remediate? (besides Janet - I know she is.) I mean have you already taught and now you're going back. Is there any point in really pushing this? My dd hates her handwriting, but gets so frustrated because she doesn't know how to solve the problem. Whatever I do, it has to be relaxed! If anything I do is viewed as yet another attempt to "work on handwriting" it will not be worked on or used to its full potential - it'll just be another thing to try to check off. That's why I initially thought about the metal insets and the cursive moveable...I gotta sneak this one in the back door just because of frustration level. Sadly, spelling and handwriting go hand in hand here. If I can't read it , then it has to be re-written. Or if an "n" looks like an "m" then it isn't spelled correctly. Enter frustration and hurried writing. More illegible work. More frustration...and on and on...
This year's spelling work will be pulled from mis-spellings in her creative writing. Not using a specific spelling or handwriting text will help not "focus" so much on the issue, and frankly by 6th grade I don't think she needs a separate spelling book and handwriting book. But, there's still the part where she's written a page full of illegible, words. I have got to simplify this and give her the tools to visualize the word (so spelling isn't the issue,) and then take off the stress so she isn't hurriedly trying to copy something down (which I hope will help give her the time to improve handwriting.)
She types a lot of her work, and that helps alleviate some of the handwriting stress. But I really sense that she longs to conquer this problem but faces the frustration of not knowing how, and feeling like she should. And I don't really know how to help her beyond trying to remove all the obstacles I can (stress, time limits, allowing mostly oral work from this child and less written so she can really focus on the written work assigned.)
I am open to other tools if you have experienced them working.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Topic: Cursive movable alphabet
