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Erin Lewis
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Hello all,
I am new here and will begin homeschooling my oldest daughter in the fall. She will be turning five in March. I have been doing some reading and online searching and I am leaning towards using the Alphabet Path with her. I have been thinking about my own philosophy of education, and what is best for a child as far as when academics are introduced. I have a degree in K-5 education and taught 3rd and 4th grades for almost 4 years, and what I saw in the school settings was that Kindergarteners were expected to read and write. In reading and thinking more on this, I have come across the idea of delaying academics and not necessarily doing handwriting and reading in K. One place I came across this, as I mentioned in the Waldorf thread here, was a Waldorf homeschooling blog. Relating to the concerns with anthroposophy, I am wondering if it is purely a Waldorf thing to delay academics, or if there are other philosophies that do that as well. I don't think I will end up following one single philosophy myself but pulling from various things and doing what is best for my family.
What are the opinions on delaying academics a bit? My daughter could most likely handle academics in K - she seems to be teaching herself to read and spell a little bit currently - but I don't want to burn her out on school by starting too early. I know that the trend nowadays is to start early, that kids supposedly will be "behind" if they don't attend a preschool that introduces all the letters and sounds and such (which I don't agree with), but I worry that it is too much too soon and intrudes on the joy of just being a young child (and my daughter's personality is such that she does not naturally tend to be child-like and carefree; she can be quite negative and concerned about adult worries, and I want to help her to be able to be joyful and to just play). But then, if she is at the point where she is "ready" to learn to read and to form letters, will it be "holding her back" if we don't begin handwriting practice and reading and such?
Part of my concern in this is that, like I mentioned, some of the ideas for delayed academics came from a Waldorf blog, and I can see the concerns with anthropospohy especially after reading thru that other thread... so I am concerned that the whole "keep your child in a dreamy, carefree atmosphere until 1st or 2nd grade" might have roots that are particularly problematic unless you are delaying academics because your child is truly not ready yet. So for a child who has the abilities to learn it, is it wrong to still delay? I do know I want to be gentle in the early grades, and I think the Alphabet Path will be good for that.
One other concern I have is that my daughter is forming letters on her own, and if I delay teaching her in more formal letter formation, can that cause her to get stuck in the habits of her own self-created letter formation? She has just been copying letters herself with no guidance, and so she does things like making two separate strokes to form a letter C. I don't want it to be harder for her to correct this later on by giving her more time to let the habits stick... but is that even a real concern? I remember myself going from basic printing taught in first grade to switching to a school that did D'Nealian handwriting in 2nd grade, and I had no trouble adjusting.
Finally, if I introduce handwriting in K, is it best to stick with a specific program (like Handwriting without Tears) or to just model the proper formation myself?
Sorry to ramble... I hope it makes sense! 
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JodieLyn
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The question isn't so much CAN they do academics early.. but What are they missing if they're stuck doing academics that they'll jump forward on if you start later anyway. There's lots of info out there about how starting academics early only shows as keeping those kids "ahead" until about 4th grade when those that started later catch up anyway.
ETA - you can tell it's getting late for me.. my spelling is horrendous.. I'm going to fix that now. 
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LucyP
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I think delaying until you and your child are clearly ready for more is a good choice; delaying for a certain period of time because Rudolf Steiner thought that if the child was shocked into wakefulness too soon they would have problems when they were 43 or something is in my opinion not a good choice.
As a bright child, I was pushed and allowed to run ahead at will, and it certainly seems to have an on-going impact that I can't switch off my head, can't be "in the moment" and have always been plagued by certain mental health issues that seem common in hot-housed children. Plus, like many other advanced children, I slumped big time as I entered adulthood!
So I would say following your child's lead to an extent - if she is wanting more, give her more but keeping it light.
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Bethany
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Well, I'm speaking just from my own experience with my oldest. She turned 5 in June and we started more formal academics (CHC) that fall. I soon saw, especially with reading, that she just wasn't ready. She had seemed to me mature enough, but I think I may have been blinded just by the fact she was the oldest. We have backed off at times and I have pushed more at times. She is definately like your daughter in that she is very concerned about not being able to do something and with adult worries. This has really been bothering me lately and I'm trying to get her to relax and move more slowly. I've also have tried to release the reins and let her move at her own pace. Since then she has been reading to herself more, which has helped her reading.
I'm not a fan, and never have been, of early academics. My girls have never gone to preschool. I remember talking to a neighbor and she mentioned how in K the kids are writing in journals. Even if they can't write, they just scribble during that time. To me, that just seems bizarre. I really believe this push for early academics is more about increasing teacher union roles, not education. When I was a child, very few went to preschool. I don't think a very good case could be made that kids coming out of school today are so much smarter than they were 20 years ago due to preschool.
My other concern is that this has trickled down to even babies. I have a family members who can't seem to interact with their 2 yo with out it being a "lesson". If he's coloring, they have to start quizzing him on shapes or colors. If their reading him a book, their constantly quizzing him about what's on the page. They were so proud that he could sing his A,B,C's at 2, like that somehow makes him that much closer to reading. I'm not sure they ever read a picture book for the sake of the story, all the books are the "Baby Einstein" type with just "educational" value  .
I would suggest reading Raymond and Dorothy Moore, David Elkind, and Ruth Beechick. They all point to the downside of pushing academics too soon. Also, really look for evidence of early academics producing much "smarter" people, I think that might be hard to find.
Over the past 2-3 years, I've really loosened up and now think "What's the worst that can happen if we don't do this RIGHT NOW?". So my daughter isn't reading at 5, do I really think it's even possible that she'll never read and be illiterate? No. So I guess I really try to think about whether forcing something is really good and neccessry.
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Bethany
Wife to Mike, Mommy to Amelia (6/02), Sarah (10/03), Martha Grace (10/05), Rebecca Anne (12/07), Laura Catherine (3/10) and Reed Michael 7/4/14.
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Erin Lewis
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Bethany wrote:
| My other concern is that this has trickled down to even babies. I have a family members who can't seem to interact with their 2 yo with out it being a "lesson". If he's coloring, they have to start quizzing him on shapes or colors. If their reading him a book, their constantly quizzing him about what's on the page. They were so proud that he could sing his A,B,C's at 2, like that somehow makes him that much closer to reading. I'm not sure they ever read a picture book for the sake of the story, all the books are the "Baby Einstein" type with just "educational" value . |
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Yes, I see this too, and it concerns me as well. WE have relatives who do this to a certain extent, like while reading a book to her, somebody taught my 4 yr old what an exclamation mark meant... and of course, since she is 4, she didn't have the ability to fully understand its meaning, so for awhile when I was reading to her, she would say, "No, Mommy, that mark means you are supposed to YELL these words!!" That really woke me up as far as presenting everything as academic... but it really comes naturally to engage in those kinds of questions and explanations for my husband's family. I think I also was "over-talking" to her when she was younger, and I made an effort with my now 2 yr old to not just ramble on with a bunch of facts and asking her questions all the time.
So, I don't know if this question would belong here or not, but has anyone used the Alphabet Path for a Kindergartener, and if so, did you also use things like a handwriting program, a reading program, etc., or just do the basics of the Alphabet Path alone?
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JodieLyn
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Erin, I'm not sure what an alphabet path is.
What I would do is maybe split up some of the work you think she might like into some sort of box or basket that she can choose to do when she'd like to. Have some fun activities that you can do together.. maybe art type of things.
Sit down and read lovely picture books together.
If the alphabet path is about doing a letter a week type of thing.. have worksheets that she can color, maybe that have a place for tracing or making that letter that she could choose to do and a basket of books that showcase that letter than she can choose to look at and/or you can read together. Things like that.. then she has the chance to pull out what she's interested in.. but you still follow a theme.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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JennGM
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There are multiple approaches at this early stage. While I'm not advocating full-fledged Montessori, some of her approaches to early learning really are helpful in learning to read. She wasn't advocating advancing the child fast, but going at the his own pace. But everything was set up for reading and writing in mind -- shelves and all activities in a left to right order, like in reading. Tracing and writing came first before reading. And phonetic emphasis, instead of alphabet, like with the movable alphabet.
I took it easy with my son. Reading, reading, reading aloud, seeing his parents reading, picture books, chapter books, newspapers, surrounded by reading material. Then the LeapFrog videos, tracing letters, movable letters really put it all together for him, and then he jumped to the Bob books. I use Sound Beginnings which isn't as colorful and fun, but really emphasizes the writing and phonics part of reading.
I wasn't pushing, he did it on his own. And then I have some of my nieces and nephews that delayed reading until 7 or so...then it all clicked.
Handwriting Without Tears has a good approach for early writing, too, making letters out of the shape of clay.
There is a Letter of the Week preschool plan that might interest you, also.
At this age, there is so much tactile in learning to read.
Just a few thoughts.
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MicheleQ
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Erin,
You might want to check out the Mater Amabilis Prep Level. There's some good info. there as well as book recommendations and sample schedules.
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Michele Quigley
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Bethany
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When I did back off with my oldest, I used the Mater Amabilis reading list a lot. She loved the Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans, she still loves the One Small Square books, and Milly, Molly, Mandy. That's also when we read Happy Times in Noisy Village & Happy Little Family, as well as many others.
I still use a lot from MA, such as The Earth, The Blue Fairy Book and This Country of Ours. We just started This Country of Ours and both my 7 & 6 yo's are interested and listen.
I've never done a letter of the week type thing. I think it doesn't really fit with my personality. As much as I would like to be the person that has everything all scheduled and flowing perfectly, I'm just not . I tend to be a little more "fly by the seat of my pants". We'll see if I can keep that up when the little one arrives .
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Bethany
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Erin Lewis
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Thank you all for the comments and advice so far! I appreciate your taking the time to share info w/ me.
This is the Alphabet Path: http://ebeth.typepad.com/serendipity/2008/08/a-tutorial-for. html
It is a letter of the week type thing.
Can anyone give me a brief summary of what Charlotte Mason education is about, or provide a link that explains the basic idea behind the philosophy? I have heard of it several times but am not familiar with it at all.
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MicheleQ
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Erin Lewis wrote:
Can anyone give me a brief summary of what Charlotte Mason education is about, or provide a link that explains the basic idea behind the philosophy? I have heard of it several times but am not familiar with it at all.
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Erin,
Here's a snippet from the intro. at Mater Amabilis that should help get you started:
Quote:
At a time when most children were educated only to a minimum standard, Charlotte Maria Shaw Mason challenged the accepted view of her time and stressed that “children are persons,” and that teachers and parents should treat them as individuals. Children, she said, need to be stimulated from an early age by a broad curriculum, not simply to be trained to read, write and count. She believed that this broad curriculum should contain the best literature, the best art, the best contemporary science, in fact, the best of everything.
A “living” education as defined by Charlotte Mason is one where a child is exposed to and acquainted with a large and various amount of “things and thoughts“. He is educated through the use of many living books, the study of nature, physical exercise, handicrafts, science, art and music. Charlotte Mason taught that ideas were the food of the mind and that it was of the utmost importance that children be given a wide and varied diet of this essential food. Through the use of living books, real life experiences and conversations, a child’s mind should be fed on the good and the sublime, the honorable and true, because, as Miss Mason writes, “out of our ideas comes our conduct of life.”
“It is for their own sakes that children should get knowledge. The power to take a generous view of men and their motives, to see where the greatness of a given character lies, to have one’s judgment of present events illustrated and corrected by historic and literary parallels, to have, indeed, the power of comprehensive judgment these are admirable assets within the power of every one according to the measure of his mind; and these are not the only gains which knowledge affords.” (A Philosophy of Education pp. 302-303)
A Charlotte Mason Education:
“CM” homeschooling is portrayed as everything from a relaxed, almost unschooling style, to a formal, structured method. This confusion can be resolved by dividing the different styles into two categories: CM structured and CM influenced education.
*A Charlotte Mason structured education attempts to follow the methodology set out in CM’s own writings as closely as possible. Children follow a set, formal course of study, using a highly efficient method which allows children to cover a broad range of subjects in the course of a short school day.
*A Charlotte Mason influenced education gleans ideas such as living books, narration, short lessons and nature study from CM and applies them to a range of different styles of education –“ a particular curriculum, literature based education, relaxed homeschooling or even unschooling.
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Michele Quigley
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Helen
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Erin Lewis wrote:
| Can anyone give me a brief summary of what Charlotte Mason education is about, or provide a link that explains the basic idea behind the philosophy? |
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Welcome Erin!
I'm glad Michele gave you a link to Mater Amabilis.
I began another thread to flesh out an answer for you.
Atmosphere in the homeschool
I invite you to take a look!
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Ave Maria!
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SuzanneG
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Erin Lewis wrote:
| Can anyone give me a brief summary of what Charlotte Mason education is about, or provide a link that explains the basic idea behind the philosophy? |
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Hi, Erin!
Reading at Mater Amabilis (that MicheleQ) linked to above and Ambleside Early Years helped me A LOT to learn more about Charlotte Mason and how I approached those "early years."
Here are some other links for you:
::Tanglewood Education
::Ambleside FAQ about CM
::Charlotte Mason 20 Principles
::Articles and Topical Discussions
::I'm new to CM, where can I learn about this type of education?
And, this is on the Ambleside Early Years Link, but I thought it was worth mentioning here:
Quote:
A Formidable List of Attainments for a Child of SIX:
A reprint of a curriculum outline from a CM school in the 1890's. from Summer 93 Parents Review pub by Karen Andreola
1. To recite, beautifully, 6 easy poems and hymns
2. to recite, perfectly and beautifully, a parable and a psalm
3. to add and subtract numbers up to 10, with dominoes or counters
4. to read--what and how much, will depend on what we are told of the child
5. to copy in print-hand from a book
6. to know the points of the compass with relation to their own home, where the sun rises and sets, and the way the wind blows
7. to describe the boundries of their own home
8. to describe any lake, river, pond, island etc. within easy reach
9. to tell quite accurately (however shortly) 3 stories from Bible history, 3 from early English, and 3 from early Roman history (my note here, we may want to substitute early American for early English!)
10. to be able to describe 3 walks and 3 views
11. to mount in a scrap book a dozen common wildflowers, with leaves (one every week); to name these, describe them in their own words, and say where they found them.
12. to do the same with leaves and flowers of 6 forest trees
13. to know 6 birds by song, colour and shape
14. to send in certain Kindergarten or other handiwork, as directed
15. to tell three stories about their own "pets"--rabbit, dog or cat.
16. to name 20 common objects in French, and say a dozen little sentences
17. to sing one hymn, one French song, and one English song
18. to keep a caterpillar and tell the life-story of a butterfly from his own observations. |
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Suzanne in ID
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SuzanneG
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Erin~
Also wanted to make sure you've seen this compilation in the Early Learning Forum: Early Childhood Learning Resources.
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Erin Lewis
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Thank you for all the links - I will be busy reading for awhile!
And this is totally random, but I notice that many of you have customized your signatures, and I cannot figure out where to go to do that... figured I would ask since everyone seems to be so helpful here!
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JodieLyn
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Erin, when you reach 10 posts you'll be able to add a signature line in the "settings" options under "profile information".
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Celeste
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Hi, Erin! You've got so much good information to go through here; I hope you don't mind if I add one more thing. Handwork and so-called practical life are a great way (I think the best, but I'll stick with great!) to start children on the road to reading.
I've always sent my children to a Montessori school, and it's been a wonderful transition to homeschool. The directors are great about letting parents know exactly what they're doing and why. And the way they start teaching reading is by teaching them to pour water, wash tables, and sew buttons. And play outside and paint. This helps them develop concentration and large motor skills, moving into fine motor skills. It also ingrains in them a sense of process--step one, step two, etc. Like Jenn said, the activities are performed from left to right. Eventually they move into phonics games, like two or three small objects in front of the child and "I spy with my bright eye something that begins with [make initial consonant sound of one of the objects]." And sandpaper letters. And so on.
But practical life and handwork don't ever stop! They're still really important, especially (I think) for providing an atmosphere for meditation (in the Catholic sense, not the zen sense). Ora et labora, if you will. A place where the brain can sort through the things it's learning.
It sounds overwhelming, but it isn't really. At age five your daughter, I'm sure, can pour water and so forth, so she's already on her way to reading!
My daughter is the niece Jenn mentioned that didn't read until she was almost seven. She finished kindergarten at Montessori, then home for first grade. At the beginning of September she struggled to read three-letter words. (Unlike her older three sisters, who left Montessori pretty good readers.) But we didn't fret. Bob books, Explode the Code, but very casually, and by the end of September--chapter books! She exploded into reading, and explosion is the only way to describe it.
Every child hits that explosion in his own time. One of the Mont. directors here, who has a Ph.D in history, tells us, often, that she couldn't read until she was eight.
Long way to say that I have a very broad understanding of academics, and that every child learns at his own pace. In this family formal academics starts with pouring rice. The mind needs nourishment, just like the body, and without nourishment it won't grow. Children are naturally curious. God made them that way on purpose, because they have lots to learn so they can carry out the incredible plans He has for them.
Celeste
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: "Delayed" academics?
