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stellamaris
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Having followed with great interest and benefit the current discussions on philosophizing on Classical Education and on memorization, I got to pondering the root of the problem as I see it: What is the purpose of education? When we determine the purpose, then it seems to me that the approach, content, and techniques will be easier to select. Thinking about my own life, my education made it possible for me to get a job, it enriched my life with the beauty of poetry, music, and drama, it gave me an awareness of other times and places and an appreciation for other cultures, it gave me the capability to learn and communicate ideas through the written word. Is this what I want for my children? Or should the purpose be something more or different altogether? What exactly is it I am trying to accomplish through my choice of methodology?
Is there one purpose for one type of student (e.g., the scholarly) and another for a different type of student (e.g., the not-so-academic)? I certainly know I want my children's education to have an eternal benefit, but what does that mean in concrete terms? So I think what I'm asking here is what is/are our goal(s) in homeschooling our children, because these will determine how and what we actually teach. (I sure hope this makes sense; I was interrupted about 10 times while posting it...my favorite was the domestic conflict between two brothers, one of whom claimed that he punched his brother because "He was going to get hurt holding a stick!" Go figure!  )
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Erin
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Simple and first answer I want them to be thinkers!
Second answer to achieve their fullest potential so they are ready to serve God in whatever capacity He calls them to. Maybe I should have the numbers around the other way, mm?
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stellamaris
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Erin, could you expand on what being a "thinker" involves in your mind? There are lots of thinkers who think day and night about false ideas, so when we talk about the kind of thinking we want our children to develop, are we including discernment? That is, we want them to think about truth or to think in a way that is accurate and truthful, right? Does this mean logic is a necessary component of our curriculum in order to achieve right thinking?
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Caroline
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Willa
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Caroline, I've thought so much about this through the years, and revisit it so often, that it would be difficult to sum it up in a few words.
I think of education as an entrance-point into the permanent things of our intellectual heritage.
Only secondarily about getting a good job... that's a layer that comes on top of the basics. Primarily I think of it as enrichment of the human, only secondly the worker. As you remarked in the memorization thread (I'm extending the range of what you said, I hope that is OK) -- education is what you still have in a concentration camp or on a sickbed.
The Ignatian manual that Kolbe Academy publishes says that the object of education is the same as the object of life in general: "Christian perfection here below."
More proximately: "Education should equip the student to be a Catholic influence on the sphere in which he lives and works..... the student should be Catholic with the consent of all his faculties"
This probably doesn't seem so helpful when you then say "what do I actually sit down and do with my kids as a result of this?" but it does help me. It's the reason for my blend of classical /Charlotte Mason/ unschooling. I want my kids to freely choose the Good, the True, the Beautiful. So anything I choose to work on hard in my homeschool is probably going to have to do with getting in touch with the durable, formative things in our civilization.
Now, do I live up to this? Does my homeschool look like a cultural garden? No.... sigh.... spring is always my time to look hard at my ideals and see how they measure up to daily life, and accordingly plan for next year. Usually a mixture of hope and discomfort... a very springlike mixture, and I usually end up talking a lot more on here than I do the rest of the year  -- it helps me so much to process it alongside of others.
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Willa
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teachingmyown
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This is a great topic! I plan to be listening rather than talking because my head is spinning trying to figure out this very thing! As I have started considering the ideas of memorization and classical education, coming from my natural inclination toward a more relaxed, literature-based approach, I am really trying to figure out what I want for my kids and what is truly necessary to accomplish my goals.
So, I am listening anxiously!
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Willa
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In regard to what Erin said I like this quote from Robert Hutchins (he's one of the editors of that Great Books series which influenced Thomas Aquinas College's curriculum and some of the other Catholic colleges).
Quote:
| “The object of education is to prepare the young to educate themselves throughout their lives.” |
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Cardinal Newman says:
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| " .... liberal education, viewed in itself, is simply the cultivation of the intellect, as such, and its object is nothing more or less than intellectual excellence." |
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I wouldn't be posting quite so much if I didn't know we were closing down later today for Holy Week! I look forward to reading your thoughts if you get time today to share them, Erin! (and others!)
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Willa
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JodieLyn
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I like those..
I think in most basic terms it's to learn enough that they may learn anything they need or desire to learn throughout their lives.. the ability to learn.
It's also to be able to function in the time and place in which you are given to live
and to be able to fulfill your vocation. (if married for instance, can you educate your own children? earn the wherewithal to support a family? be a good steward of your things?)
hmmm and maybe to use God given talents.. that may require additional schooling such as teaching or medicine or building..
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stellamaris
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JodieLyn, you bring to mind a friend of mine who went to Princeton. She told her father not to send her as he had sent her brothers because she only planned to marry and have a family and what was the point of all that expense? His answer is so wonderful, "When I educated your brothers, I educated one man. When I educate you, I educate a family." This thought has always made me more conscientious than I might have otherwise been in educating my daughters. We are raising our grandchildren's teachers! So there's a purpose, too. Have a blessed Holy Week everyone, I've loved having these discussions. See you Easter week!
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Caroline
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CrunchyMom
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stellamaris wrote:
| JodieLyn, you bring to mind a friend of mine who went to Princeton. She told her father not to send her as he had sent her brothers because she only planned to marry and have a family and what was the point of all that expense? His answer is so wonderful, "When I educated your brothers, I educated one man. When I educate you, I educate a family." This thought has always made me more conscientious than I might have otherwise been in educating my daughters. We are raising our grandchildren's teachers! So there's a purpose, too. Have a blessed Holy Week everyone, I've loved having these discussions. See you Easter week! |
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What a great quote! Not sure I would choose Princeton for a liberal education these days , but that is a great thought to ponder!
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Erin
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Stellamaris wrote:
| Erin, could you expand on what being a "thinker" involves in your mind? There are lots of thinkers who think day and night about false ideas, so when we talk about the kind of thinking we want our children to develop, are we including discernment? That is, we want them to think about truth or to think in a way that is accurate and truthful, right? Does this mean logic is a necessary component of our curriculum in order to achieve right thinking? |
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Caroline
By 'thinkers' I mean someone who questions, who doesn't just accept on face value because 'everyone' says. Someone who analyzes, who reads, researches and comes to conclusions. Now I am aware that my children may come to different conclusions than me, but I can accept that (not talking faith differences here  ) as long as they have thought about it. No blind choices allowed.
I think I may well teach logic by osmosis or something, talk and challenges and analysing just happen in this household.
It's my mother's fault she taught all my siblings and I to think and we are just carrying on to the next generation. My sister rang me a few months ago frustrated because her husband doesn't think (she was checking out birthing options at the time) I reassured her that he will it just takes time to train them.
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Willa
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Erin wrote:
By 'thinkers' I mean someone who questions, who doesn't just accept on face value because 'everyone' says. Someone who analyzes, who reads, researches and comes to conclusions. Now I am aware that my children may come to different conclusions than me, but I can accept that (not talking faith differences here ) as long as they have thought about it. No blind choices allowed.
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I always felt I couldn't go wrong with raising thinkers.
One -- If I'm right myself, which I THINK I am on the essential points , then their thinking will lead them to think as I do, only IN THEIR OWN WAY, not just blindly following me because I said so.
Two -- if I did happen to be wrong about something, they could teach me better. And this has happened more than once, though not on the essential points like faith doctrine, etc.
Three -- There are some prudential areas where you need to think things through for your own life. I homeschool because I am thinking the same way my parents thought about the importance of education and family, though they did NOT homeschool. My kids will have to make their own decisions in their own circumstances.
Teaching them to reflect and consider and avoid knee-jerk decisions will benefit them in all these areas and it's a no-lose scenario so long as they don't prize their own thoughts above God's wisdom -- which of course, is a danger but it's a danger that you can teach them to avoid since it's a problem or flaw in human thinking anyway.
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Martha
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to the purpose of education is 2-fold.
1. to learn. to think. (both specific subjects and life-long ability)
2. to open possiblities. yes we always have to choose 1 thing over another, but for the most part, ime, education does doesn't close doors - it opens them.
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stellamaris
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Martha wrote:
to the purpose of education is 2-fold.
1. to learn. to think. (both specific subjects and life-long ability |
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Martha, did you mean "to learn.to think" or "to learn to think"? If the latter, I definitely agree. First of all, thinking is a learned process. The more we think about something, or the more we think in a certain way, the more our brains develop (physically) the capacity for that kind of thought. So, when I took tons of math and science for my college major, I actually became aware of the fact that I was thinking more linearly. When I spend lots of time in contemplation, I notice a certain change in my usual thought processes. So what does this mean for education? I'm afraid I have been more lax than I should have been in consistently working on particular subjects that require specialized thinking (e.g., math or logic).
Getting back to the original thought behind this post, if I say that "learning to think" is the purpose underlying my instruction of my children, that is, my goal, I would want to add something to that. Maybe, "learning to think in order to know the truth"? And if this is my goal (which it is), how do I go about that? I mean, is it better to say "OK, sit down now and we will learn XYZ?" or is it better to allow them to direct the learning, or maybe some of both depending on the subject? You would think after all these years I wouldn't be agonizing over this, but I seem to be having an "philosophical crisis" of sorts wrt educating my younger three children. I'm not sure which way to jump, and I feel like I'm piling up curriculum that has conflicting approaches, but I see a benefit in both the structured and unstructured approach! I definitely think narration is important to this learning how to think process, because they have to first identify the truth (the actual information about what happened) and then by narrating they not only make that information their own, but they also follow and imitate the thought processes of the author. So that's one thing I'm settled on, at least!
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Caroline wrote:
| You would think after all these years I wouldn't be agonizing over this, but I seem to be having an "philosophical crisis" of sorts wrt educating my younger three children. I'm not sure which way to jump, and I feel like I'm piling up curriculum that has conflicting approaches, but I see a benefit in both the structured and unstructured approach! I definitely think narration is important to this learning how to think process, because they have to first identify the truth (the actual information about what happened) and then by narrating they not only make that information their own, but they also follow and imitate the thought processes of the author. So that's one thing I'm settled on, at least! |
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Caroline
I'm intrigued, if I may be so bold as to ask, why a crisis with the younger three? Are they different to the older ones in their learning style, or are you different now in your teaching style? No offense taken if you'd rather not answer.
Have you been following any of the Reggio discussions here? A philosophy more than a method, to me it appears to strike the connection between child led and parental input, but then I may be mis-representing. Anyhow I'm always trying to strike a balance between structured and unstructured. Why do I have to think so much!
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Actually I meant both.
I do think learning to think is important and a major part of education.
but yes, I think simple learning has it's place. Otherwise, why memorize the catechism questions, prayers, basic math facts, and such?
And yes, I know many don't do that.
I simply think that when children are very young they need to literally be given a foundation to think on. My 5 yr old might no fully be able to think what the holy trinity is. But I would feel remiss as a mother/teacher if they didn't know we believe in 1 God in 3 persons, the father, the son, and the holy spirit.
So altho we do have simple learning of facts.
It is done clearly with an expectation that they will also learn to think on these facts. I do think an education is about learning to think, but certain basic knowledge is part of the equation to me as well.
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Martha wrote:
| I do think an education is about learning to think, but certain basic knowledge is part of the equation to me as well. |
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Totally agree with you here. I want my children to learn to think, and that comprises the largest part of our educational goals. But they also need to be well-informed. Contrary to public opinion, ignorance is not bliss.
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Erin, one of my twins is special needs, and so I've had to make major adjustments for him. I keep trying to keep the younger boys together (to make it easier for me), but his needs require a lot of separate work. He learns completely differently from the others, and it is hard to figure out what he in fact knows. Also, when I began homeschooling there were hardly any options for curriculum--Abeka and Calvert were about it. So I added my own touches to these, and did lots of reading aloud, and that worked for those kids. Now there is so much available and it is mostly wonderful. You hit an important point, though, with this comment: "Why do I have to think so much?" (can't figure out how to quote mid-post without re-writing the entire thing). I need to stop thinking and just do! That has always worked in the past.
Martha and Theresa, I totally agree with the importance of learning a certain "body" of information. I like the classical approach because of this, but I do find that it goes a bit overboard. Key dates like 1066 or 1215, or influential rulers with their dates, such as Queen Elizabeth or Peter the Great, are important knowledge, the list of ALL the kings and queens of England isn't,in my mind, (unless you're English )
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Caroline
I totally understand how it would be easier to keep 8 and 7 year olds together. I remember the Abeka, Rod and Staff, early Seton years; my mum was homeschooling my siblings who are the same age as your older ones with those choices. The choices now are overwhelming.
Sarah recently wrote a post that has me thinking about the things that do work. What works for my family, what nourishes my soul, my children's souls? If it's not broken don't touch it; I know I have had a tendency in the past to get carried away and forget what is working. Talking away to myself here. 
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stellamaris wrote:
| First of all, thinking is a learned process. The more we think about something, or the more we think in a certain way, the more our brains develop (physically) the capacity for that kind of thought. So, when I took tons of math and science for my college major, I actually became aware of the fact that I was thinking more linearly. When I spend lots of time in contemplation, I notice a certain change in my usual thought processes. |
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Nicely said! I do agree and it fits in with some of the reading I've been doing on education recently.
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Willa
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: Purpose of Education
