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Tina P.
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| Posted: April 08 2008 at 1:55pm | IP Logged
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Does anyone unschool just some of their kids and have more structure for others? OR do you unschool to a certain age and then add structure (or vice versa)?
One of my kids slips through the structured cracks. He's very quiet, when he wants to be, and sneaks out of doing anything bookish and/or gradeable until it's too late in the day to do anything about it. OR he skulks around "looking for [his] books" while I'm helping the other four kids who *officially* homeschool.
But he's incredibly smart! He taught himself to read. He has incredible insights for an 8 yo. And when he has a *fun* math page (ie: dot-to-dots, coloring a picture based on double and triple digit subtraction), he can do it in a trice! Where does he get this from? He seems to be learning despite my efforts! 
I wonder whether it's worth it to fight him on the paperwork, you know? So ... what's your experience with structured vs. unstructured schooling on an individual child basis?
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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Just my opinion, but I think it would be difficult. Might cause resentment amongst the ones who are schooling more traditionally, as they might see it as a "reward" for poor behavior?
I don't know, though. It's just a thought.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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Michaela
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 4:26pm | IP Logged
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It happens, but not on purpose.
Olivia enjoys book/workbook learning. That may be her slick way of one-on-one time with me. Nathan cannot stand workbooks. He's two grade levels ahead of his twin though. Everything he learns is by osmosis. I get the "can't find my book" or need to use the bathroom...procrastination.
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Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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SallyT
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| Posted: April 24 2008 at 3:58pm | IP Logged
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I have some kids who are simply more self-directed -- my oldest, now 14, knows what she wants to do and how to accomplish it (or at least she has good ideas). What she accomplishes in her own way covers many bases: for example, last year she wrote, revised (with her drama mentor) and directed a play, so I didn't feel that we needed to do a whole lot of formal, me-directed "writing instruction" or grammar or spelling, because the revision process taught her so much of that kind of thing.
My second, now 10, has always wanted more structure. He likes to sit down and work through a roster of assignments, or else he tends just to drift around. As he gets older, we're able to unschool more things -- he can read on his own (just finished reading Chesterton's "Lepanto" and is adding a page about the battle to his "Military History" timeline notebook) -- but in general he responds better to at least some structure from me.
My two little ones, 5 and 4, are very much unschooled, though already I can see tendencies . . . the 4-year-old likes to mess around with workbooks and have "lesson time," even if all she's doing is painting with watercolors. The 5yo resists any kind of "lesson," but is currently fascinated with how words are spelled and communicates almost exclusively in spelled-out words -- he just yelled from his room, "D-A-D, can I come O-U-T N-O-W?" So, um, that would be "reading," I guess. And "spelling" . . .
The thing about homeschooling is that you're free to work with a child's way of learning, not try to make the child fit the lesson or the philosophy. If something works for a child -- ie he's learning -- then it works. Period. There hasn't been resentment between my two oldest on this score, because the one who's doing more me-directed work is perfectly happy doing it, because it fits his needs.
I would say that if a child is looking at a situation like this as unfair, then it's worth evaluating whether what he's doing is working, too, or whether some change needs to be made. Solving resentment can be as easy as saying, "Well, what would you be interested in doing?" That way it's clear that you're not just letting one child slip by while everyone else is held to a different standard; it signals that you're interested in working with each one as he or she is. And while that sounds labor-intensive, the more you can have people working self-directedly on their own projects (ie ones you don't have to MAKE them do), the easier things are, in my experience. This is true for both the natural unschoolers, who just learn on their own trajectory, and the ones who need at least some structure from you.
HTH,
Sally
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: April 24 2008 at 4:56pm | IP Logged
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I agree with Michaela. It happens, but not on purpose...though I consider any good, productive day away from the learning table a good "unschooling" day.
I also agree with, Theresa.
lapazfarm wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think it would be difficult. Might cause resentment amongst the ones who are schooling more traditionally, as they might see it as a "reward" for poor behavior?
I don't know, though. It's just a thought. |
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My Kindergarner was basically "unschooled" this year while the 4th grader and 8th grader had structured lessons in the morning.
Since Annie is always the first one up in the morning, I would do her reading lesson and "K-Mart curriculum" with her. She was usually finished when they were just finishing their breakfast. Sometimes I'd hear them make a comment, "Why isn't she doing anything?" "Has she done her school yet?" "When are you going to make her do something?"
I had to remind them of who was the teacher/parent here.
I also ask if they were volunteering for some reading/play-doh/math manipulative lessons with their younger sister.
More times than not I reminded them that she was just in Kindergarten ans her lessons don't last very long. And I'd give them the warm fuzzy talk of how PK and K learn best by playing.
And I'd remind them that reading Dr. Seuss is, in fact, schooling for a Kindergarner. 
Since she's the youngest, there was always a peaceful resolution. Not sure that would be the case if I had two junior high or two high school students and one was unschooled while another was structured.
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Cay Gibson
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: April 24 2008 at 7:10pm | IP Logged
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It works here. My children who take a more structured approach are structured because they NEED it. And they know they need it.They are actually grateful for the structure. The ones who have a much more "unschooling" approach (I hesitate to use that word because it means different things to different people), thrive on going from one interest-driven pursuit to the next within a reasonable framework. Honestly, the interest-driven ones tend to be more academic and more productive so it would leave little for the structured guys to complain about should they compare workloads or such.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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MacBeth
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| Posted: April 24 2008 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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What Elizabeth said.
Also...Those who crave and need structure here ask for it. Those that don't just go about their business.
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Willa
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| Posted: April 25 2008 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
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I can see what you mean about the paperwork, Tina. If your son can grasp things easily without doing a lot of "show-me work" then it seems that is a gift that can be nurtured, even if it means organizing his work a bit differently from that of the others.
I do it the same way Elizabeth does. Right now my senior in high school is pretty much "unschooling" in that she does it on her own and asks for advice or input when she needs it. Her work does not LOOK like unschooling because she does more than I would have assigned her, and she does things she doesn't necessarily think are fun because she wants to reach her college goals and because she wants to make sure her learning is balanced.
My 15 year has a structured program. He likes to "just do it" ; he doesn't want to be bothered designing it himself. Perhaps a bit like Elizabeth's Patrick, SEan's primary interests are athletic and he has little trouble with academic tasks, so he values efficiency and knowing exactly what to expect out of his schoolwork. He complains if I'm too vague; my main challenge is keeping the goals concrete and challenging but doable while still leaving energy for his other activities and some free reading and relationship time.
Kieron, 12, is a combination. There are a few "have-to's" but we do a lot by collaboration. I ask him for his opinion or give him a choice of a few books or activities and ask him what he thinks would be best to do with them. He likes to interact and to spend time on things; rather the opposite of Sean.
Aidan functions at a Kindergarten level and Paddy is an actual young Kindergartener. The key with them is variety. They probably do 95% unschooling but I sit down and work with phonics and math concepts every now and then. I've tried to design a slightly Montessori-style environment for them with various activities and books to choose from. I read to them a lot, especially to Paddy.
Basically, the kids have to "consent" to the structure. That doesn't mean me being a pushover Mom, and it doesn't mean they never complain, but I look for them to be on the same page as me. After all, learning is primarily their job, and part of that for me is making it work for them.
My kids that have the more structured programs are the same ones who really would basically prefer not to design their own. I try to let them have as much autonomy as they seem to be able to handle. I suppose it is not unlike parenting where you steer between guidance and freedom, and the balance is different for each child depending on their temperament and maturity.
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: Unschool some and Structure for others?
