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MamaJen
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| Posted: Nov 07 2006 at 11:17am | IP Logged
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This morning I had one of *those* conversations with my almost 10 year old oldest son. Am I the only one who deals with this, repeatedly?
My son believes that he does all this work and doesn't get any help from his brothers. It stresses him out to no end, and he was in tears through most of the conversation.
Now, from *my* point of view, this isn't exactly the way things are. Yes, I do expect more from my oldest son than from his younger brothers. But he is 2 1/2, 3 1/2, and 5 1/2 years older than his brothers! So of course he has more responsibilities! He also gets some perks, like staying up late, etc. I try to point this out to him, to no avail. Yes, it's true - I probably should expect more from his younger brothers, it's easy to let them get away with too much, and I'll admit I need to work on that. But honestly? I don't think *any* of them do enough work in our family. So to hear oldest ds complain about how burdened he is made me quite upset!
So - what do all of you experienced moms of many do? How do you keep from expecting too much from your oldest child? How do you get your younger kids to do their share? And how in the world can you point out that all your children, oldest included, have a pretty easy life???
Feeling frustrated this morning, can you tell??
-MamaJen
mommy to 4 boys (9.5, 7, 6, 4)
Aquinas Academy
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amyable
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| Posted: Nov 07 2006 at 11:30am | IP Logged
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I'm not speaking from experience, because we struggle with this too (my children are similar ages but a little younger...almost 9, almost 7, 3, and 1). But one thing I heard once that I thought was very wise, was making the youngest child who is capable of doing something be responsible for that thing. So for example if your 6 year old can put away towels, he does that, while an older child would not have to do that, but would do other, more difficult or mature things, like filling the dishwasher. That way the 9yo doesn't have to do the dishes AND putting away the towels.
How to show them they have the easy life? I wish I knew!  Seriously though, I try to give them the verse about "to whom much is given, much is expected"...which incidentally has led my 8yo to think that she just has way too much stuff to take care of and wants to get rid of it. Otherwise, I just talk about it whenever it comes up..."Aren't we so lucky to have such and such, people in the past (or in other countries) didn't have that and they had to work much harder than we do every day."
It is so hard in today's culture. I constantly am made to feel like I am depriving my children of the necessities of life, you know, lots of toys, lots of (sleezy) clothes, and the ability to put their feet up while Mama withers away from all the work of caring for four kids under 10! 
I am very interested in hearing more replies to this post...I have recently been convinced that if I can help my children see that serving others is a good thing, that I won't always feel like the bitter martyr, because they will at least *once in a while* do their chores well and without nagging.  (what few chores they have, that is, we are working on it...)
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Martha
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| Posted: Nov 07 2006 at 1:20pm | IP Logged
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Amy may have heard that from me because I've had that "youngest able" rule for some years. I don't remember where I got it from either.
2 things I have found helpful with the woe is me attitude:
Having the same chore time FOR EVERYONE. This makes it apparent everyone is working. We are all doing chores at the same time, so no one is suffering through chores while watching someone else play. (Which I agree is like being on a diet and watching someone eat chocolate brownies and vanilla ice cream.) They also see how much faster work gets done. Many hands do make quick work. This also prevents the never-ending work syndrome where they finish something only to be told to do something else and then told to do something else. They have their chore and when it's done they are DONE. That's a huge motivator. There's no motivation to finish if their just going to be told to scrub a toilet next.
Once in a great while someone will offer a whine that "they do it all" and around here it's not just the oldest. The solution is to have them actually do it all. One morning of doing everyone's chores usually resolves this for a long time. It doesn't take long for them to appreciate others a bit more.
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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MamaJen
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| Posted: Nov 07 2006 at 6:30pm | IP Logged
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Ooooh - thanks!! I like both of these ideas. Making the youngest child capable of something responsible for it - that will really help me make our chore lists a bit more equitable. And the idea of the person who's whining really *does* get to do it all for a day - that's brilliant!
Thanks for these ideas, it's really going to help me think about our work (apart from schoolwork) in a different light, which I need to do in *many* ways.
Does anyone here use an allowance? My dh thought that perhaps if we offered, say, 5-10 cents per chore, it would be an incentive to appreciate the chores done rather than complain about them. I'm not so sure that would work. Anyone have any experience with that?
Thanks again!
MamaJen
mommy to 4 boys (9.5, 7, 6, 4)
Aquinas Academy
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Molly Smith
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| Posted: Nov 08 2006 at 5:24am | IP Logged
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If have 10dd, 8ds, 6ds, 4dd, 2ds and a newborn and we've been tweaking our chore charts for a few weeks now to try to even things out. It's working now, so I sure hope I can stay consistent about keeping up with it. I often pair the girls and boys, so that while the older is wiping down their toilet in the morning the younger is wiping down the sink/counter (the boys and girls each have their own bathroom). Kitchen duties rotate between the three oldest for wiping down the table, counter and vacuuming. My 4yo wipes down the appliances and anything else she can reach and my 2yo pushes in all the chairs.
My 2yo can fetch things for me from the pantry (like paper towels and garbage bags), he pushes in chairs, helps dust, helps switch laundry. I was surprised how much he could do once I gave it a try. The "youngest able" rule is great!
I found for my oldest daughter and son that the problem wasn't that they were burdened with more work, but that it seemed like they were working while everyone else was doing something else. Now that they all work together, it seems more equitable to them.
My oldest son, 8, is actually our expert launderer. And I will pay him a quarter per load for doing laundry. However, my daughter, 10, is old enough and capable enough to do it herself, so she has to pay him herself if she wants him to do it for her .
We have had an allowance for our 10dd for about two years now. It has definitely taught her fiscal responsibility. She very carefully considers her purchases and has saved and given away a lot of money. She currently gets $5 per week (1/2 her age). The boys (8 and 6) have asked for an allowance, but we haven't started yet. Maybe in the new year. I'm not really interested in tying it to chores as in such-and-such chores earns a certain amount, though, however they will need to complete all of their chores and lessons each week.
Our allowance for dd ($5) is divided into giving ($1), saving ($2) and spending ($2). Any money she earns or receives from grandparents outside of her allowance can be divided as she sees fits, and she usually saves it.
Sorry to get so long winded--I'm also just running this all through my mind to hash out what I'm going to do with the other children for allowances. It's going to add up here in January if I start the others on allowances. I dunno...I'm just thinking out loud (and enjoying some rare uninterrupted computer time ) and interested to hear how others handle allowances for many children.
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Martha
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| Posted: Nov 08 2006 at 7:44am | IP Logged
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MamaJen wrote:
Does anyone here use an allowance? My dh thought that perhaps if we offered, say, 5-10 cents per chore, it would be an incentive to appreciate the chores done rather than complain about them. I'm not so sure that would work. Anyone have any experience with that?
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No! If anyone deserves to be paid for their work around here, it's ME.
Also we believe strongly in our family motto "Family takes care of family." You don't take care of family because there is a reward (money or otherwise). You do it because that is what family does. It's the loving and the resposible thing to do. Much of life is about doing what needs done because it's what needs done, not because we get a pay off from it.
I know way too many kids with an attitude of "What's in it for me." Not saying that is the case for anyone here, but it is a common attitude these days for young and old alike.
Would paying them be an incentive? Yes. But I don't know that it would be effective in winning their hearts over to value of taking care of their families.
There's my .20 worth about allowances anyhow. 
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Martha
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Erin
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| Posted: Nov 09 2006 at 5:25am | IP Logged
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MamaJen,
A subject very much on my mind at present, (I'll get to why)
Over the years I have been very conscious of not overburdening my oldest. the old pendulumn swinging reactiion. I was the oldest of eight and basically I did just about run the household. And no I that not's just a child's perception I have even checked recently with my grandmother. Soo the pendulumn swung and I was determined that my oldest ddwould not feel the burden.
On a practical note this means that I will often be conscious of asking a younger or rotating the asking. Chores are divided up and clearly posted.
Now recently I started feeling that the dc are not doing enough in my desire not to ask too much I am doing their characters a diservice. After talking about this dh has done up their chore chart with the dc's consultation. Each job is given points and each child has a certain amount of points assigned according to age. This has stopped alot of the 'I'm doing more work than him' feelings as they can see that it is only logical that they have to do more points as they are older and they see when a birthday rolls around each one takes on more points. This has worked the best, we have tried many things and this has been the most effective and the longest lasting.
On another point though, I still think I have carried the 'don't burden oldest dd' too far. I am worried that perhaps she could become too selfish, not enough self-denial. By stressing the fairness thing too much I don't know if I've done the best thing. Lately I have been calling on her lost more deliberately and she has coped very well and never complained so maybe its all right. I've come to realise that being the oldest can be great character building.
I'm sorry I'm rambling. Just some jumbled thoughts.
some dc are very big on fairness, and yet 10yr olds aren't always capable of being totally rational that will come with maturity. If you wrote it all down, what you expect from him and from his siblings he might find they do more than he thought.
Its late and I'm tired I've a feeling I'm not clear here I'm sorry.
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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Katie
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| Posted: Nov 09 2006 at 8:40am | IP Logged
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My oldest ds (soon to be nine) is the same way - so overburdened. I tried having everyone work together, but I could never really pull it off, though dh can get them to clean up the downstiars in no time at all. Anyway, what has worked for me is that i assigned each child a room (the 8, 6 and 5yo's). Ds has the bathroom, which also houses the washer and dryer. I have been going in there with him and teaching him what I need done every morning, slowly adding in chores like cleaning the toilet and learning how to do the laundry. He's almost at the point where he gets the place pretty tidy and the wash changed over by himself.
Dd 6 has the kitchen. She has to clear up the breakfast dishes, wipe the table, do some dishes (she loves that!), take toys and pencils out and put them away where they belong. Again, I'm pretty much with her while she does this, maybe baking or cleaning the fridge or something.
Dd5 is a pill and hates tidying up. She and I do the school room and I started really small with her to avoid the protests. We tidy round, empty the trash, and change out the items on the little one's table every few days. She really likes to do that and sometimes gets very creative.
Anyway, that has been what works here, and everyone knows they have a room so there's no unfair feeling. I also feel that I am training them in what i mean when i say "tidy up", and also in some domestic skills like dishes and laundry.
HTH!
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Mother of 5 in South America. No 6 due in April.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Oldest child's responsibilities
