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Lisbet
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 5:24am | IP Logged
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I haven't been around for awhile, and I want to share with all of you what has been going on around here. It's unbelieveable. I've always known that there were people who didn't like big families, who think horrible things about those of us that have them, who think that there is no possible way anyone can 'properly care for' more than 2 children, etc... I never realized just how horrible people like that can be until now.
Last week, a social worker from children services came knocking on my door. The first thing she said to me when I opened the door was "I'm so and so from children services, I am here to investigate a call from a neighbor. I understand you have 8 children." Evidently, a neighbor called them saying that our children are left unattended. She was here to asses if there was any eminent danger to our children. Of course she found that there was not, yet that she had protocol to follow and she would return to interview each of our children individually. Also that because we had a case with them, if any more calls came in they would be out to remove the children. Of course my head was spinning. My husband and I immediately called our lawyer, who happens to be a Catholic dad who homeschools his own large brood. Praise be to God that he had the case thrown out. Not only thrown out, but the social workers opinioin on the case was that it was a 'spite call' and she kept record of it.
The following day, we found a letter placed in our mailbox from our neighbor stating his reasons one by one, just why he called children services. Keep in mind that this man is a teacher, he has in no uncertain terms told us that homeschooling is the stupidest idea he has ever heard of. He has also been trying to sell his house for 2 years now, and he blames '8 screaming children nextdoor' for not being successful on selling. He says that he constantly hears crying from our home, that he sees the children run around out back barefoot, he has seen them fight with one another without a parent breaking them up. He stated that "you just keep having more kids and you struggle taking care of the ones you've got."
He has 2 children, 4 and 1 years old. They are very much 'hover' parents. You know the kind that follow every step behind their kids 24/7. My kids do indeed play out back barefoot. We have a very small yard, and it's completely fenced in. Often when I am in the kitchen or dining room, both of which face the backyard, the 4,3, and 2 year olds will play out there. The 5 and 7 year old boys play out there ALL the time. They do indeed fight sometimes, and I don't come running each time. He also said that he has seen the older children (11 and 9) care for the younger children. He stated that "Nick and Abby should NOT be expected to help raise their siblings" He considers all of this to be unsupervised and dangerous.
My husband went over and spoke with him (after regning in his anger) and the guy just flat out said he thinks that 8 is too many and that there is no way anyone can care for 8 children 'properly'. He just doesn't get life in a big family. He said to my husband 'surely someone has told you this all before'. And my husband said that aside from a few hateful comments from strangers in a grocery store, no, no one has ever said such stupid things to us before. Actually, people that meet our family comment on just how beautiful it is to see a big family and so many beautiful well behaved children.
I have to be very guarded in my own home now. Our front doors are literally 20 feet apart. Both homes are up for sale now. I pray this situation is temporary.
We have since joined HSLDA. We were so nieve in the past we thought it was a waste of money. (people aren't that cruel, and we are not doing anything illegal, right?) I also now know better what to do when a social worker comes to my door. I did eveything opposite this time. My head is still spinning. We have been nothing but nice to these people. When they started jabbing at us a few years ago, our motto was "kill 'em with kindness". Now, we are shaking their dust from our feet.
Please offer a prayer up that one of these houses sells quickly.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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MarieC
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 6:02am | IP Logged
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I'm really sorry to hear about this. We'll keep you all in our prayers.
Lisbet wrote:
Actually, people that meet our family comment on just how beautiful it is to see a big family and so many beautiful well behaved children.
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This is so true....you have a lovely family! When I think of how well a big family can work, I think of your family.
__________________
Marie
mom to 6
dds-98, 00, 02 and 09 & dss-03 and 06
Out in the Orchard
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 6:17am | IP Logged
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I'm so glad you joined HSLDA. unfortunately, what you have experienced isn't rare at all. I know that some of my neighbors think the same of me (though they haven't called children's services). I can't imagine how horrible this has all been for you. St. Joseph, please help that house to sell!
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Dawnie
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Oh, Lisa, I'm so sorry! Having a social worker show up at my door is one of my biggest fears.
Surely there's another family out there who loves children and would love to have 8 kids next door! I know my kids would be THRILLED to have 8 playmates next door.
I let my kids play outside "unsupervised," too. Our yard is fenced in w/ combination locks on the gates. I do check on them frequently when they are out there. Aside from the normal kid accidents (like tripping), there's really nothing they could get hurt on out there. I guess you never know who's watching, huh? That's kinda scary.
We will be praying that God will protect your family from unjust persecution--what is happening to you is definately unjust! My heart aches for you. 
Dawn
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Mom to Mary Beth (99), Anna (02), Lucia (04), Clara (06), and Adelaide Victoria (2/28/09)
Visit my blog!Water Into Wine:Vino Per Tutto!
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Rebecca
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I am so sorry that you have experienced this kind of frustration and sadness, all simply because you have a large family.
I will be praying for you, your neighbor and your housing situation.
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Lisbet
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 7:33am | IP Logged
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Thank you all for your prayers and kind words.
Dawn, it is one of my biggest nightmares come true, although I know it could have been ALOT worse. Social workers have so much personal discrection, we were lucky to have a decent one at our door.
Elizabeth, I can't imagine anyone thinking anything but the best of you! :)
Marie, Thanks for your kind words. Our family is far far from perfect, and we do indeed have our struggles, yet we try! :)
Rebecca, Thanks for your prayers, we are trying to keep our hearts open to what God may be trying to teach us through this. We also keep praying that our neighbor will allow his heart to be softened.
This situation aside, our goal has been to have our family moved out of the city within the year.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Erin
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Lisa
I am absolutley horrified and stunned. Wow.
Well I can't blame you for wanting to sell and get out of that situation, I'll be storming Heaven.
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
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Bridget
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 7:38am | IP Logged
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These situations are not so uncommon. it really bizarre. My SIL criticized me once fro letting my kids play barefoot and climb trees.
It is so frightening to think that someone has nothing better to do and so much anger that they would call protective services on a family for having many children.
Some people do not understand the dynamics of many children. The beauty of olders helping with youngers. The normalcy of a squabble. (By the time you get there it's over. Sheesh.) The noise does not mean out of control or unsupervised, it just means there are a lot of them.
I'll surely be praying for your family.
__________________
God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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Bridget
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I have the numbers for HSLDA ,and my brother who is a lawyer, taped up in the inside of a handy cupboard.
__________________
God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 8:22am | IP Logged
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I once had a neighborhood block party tell me she considering not inviting us because we bumped up the numbers so much. She went on to comment, in a discussion with other moms about the neighborhood school:
Mom #1: (to me) Do your kids play on the playground at school, I mean, do they use our school equipment even though you don't pay PTA dues or do fundraisers or anything.
Me: Silent, and thinking yes, but we pay property taxes and our house and yard are bigger than yours, so I guarantee we're covered for the occasional monkey bar trak.
Mom #1, moving on to another topic without waiting for an answer: (to a mom new to the neighborhood) Did you go up to the school and talk with the principal about her philosophy?
Mom #2: Yes, I did. And I think we'll go ahead and switch from the classical school to the public school It's just too far to drive.
Mom #1: (to me) I don't supose you have to consider things like educational philosophy when you just keep them all home, do you?
No, I don't think about educational philosophy much at all...
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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momwise
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Lisa,
I will be asking St. Joseph for his strong and tender care for you and your family.
Please dear St. Joseph, oversee the sale of Lisa's home and her neighbor's according to God's plan. Pray for the strength of the angels who guard their precious children, the neighbor's home and family, the neighborhood and the other neighbors.
Keep surrounding your home with holy water and blessed salt and commend your neighbor to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Bridget
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 9:08am | IP Logged
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My family just came to see why I was laughing out loud. (Elizabeth's post.)
Yet, another reason to homeschool: so we can help our children to think logically, a skill many people seem to lack.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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Cay Gibson
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Oh, Lisa, what a terrible situation.
You have my prayers.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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momwats8
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Lisa - I am soo sorry. I have had this happen to me in Michigan where all of our neighbors were elderly and did not understand homeschooling. The interview went well and I even had to tell her a little about homeschooling and showed her our books etc. It was nerve wracking for me and my children
Here in Florida the police showed up at our door. We have a big vacant lot aross the street where the boys - I have 7 of them - like to play. Well the person who lives close to the lot across the street felt it was dangerous for my 4 year old. Mind you there was a 14 year old out there and i had juts gotten done checking on them about 2 minutes before theknock on the door. Well the police asked me if these were all my kids. I told him yes. He told me the neighbor who called was worrried about the little ones getting hurt. He took onw look at Nate and said - well he looks fine to me. Have a good day and left. It wa so stupid and it causes anxiety for all.
These situations make it very hard. My kids can no longer play across the streeet and climb the trees. I have to feel paranoid about them in the yard and worry about who is watching me and them. I am sorry you have to feel these things and I will pray for your neighbor's heart to be softened and that his house will sell quickly.
In Christ - Mary
Wife to Mike and Mother to Austin(92), Mikey(95), R.J.(97), Benedict(98), Kolbe(00), Ignatius(02), Christian(03), and Margaret(05)
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KC in TX
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This is also one of my biggest fears. What a horribel and scary thing for you to go through. I'm glad you joined HSLDA--we did for peace of mind. I will be praying for quick sale of your house.
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KC,
wife to Ben (10/94),
Mama to LB ('98)
Michaela ('01)
Emma ('03)
Jordan ('05)
And, my 2 angels, Rose ('08) and Mark ('09)
The Cabbage Patch
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mrsgranola
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Lisa, I certainly will be praying for your situation. You had alot more manners than I would have had in that situation. My redneck side would have come out, for sure!
We don't have a great many large families here but I met a new family's mom at our church today with 8. Only the younger 5 are still at home. Unfortunately, this a the family that had some really rowdy, disrespectful kids in my dh's junior high CCD this year when they were therte (public schoolers, fwiw). Anyway, it was nice to finally see another family at our church as big/bigger than ours that wasn't a generation or two ago. Every mother's day me and my mom get the "prize" for the mom with the most kids (present at Mass). I'm the youngest of 5...
Oh, and we got a 12-passenger van so we're getting more of "the look" lately from everyone, family included. You know what "look" I mean... 
I'd like to think that I could handle a social worker coming to the door without HSLDA but I guess I need to re-establish more frequent contact with some old friends of mine who are lawyers...
gotta run--
JoAnna
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Parente Adventures
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Maddie
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We said our Rosary for your family today, that you have peace as a family and protection.
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~Maddie~
Wife to my dh and Momma of 9 dear ones
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Maddie
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Lisbet wrote:
This situation aside, our goal has been to have our family moved out of the city within the year.
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God bless and may St. Joseph guide you to your new home soon.
__________________
~Maddie~
Wife to my dh and Momma of 9 dear ones
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stefoodie
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Lisa, how horrible. Thank you for sharing your story with us. Reading stories like this, makes me wish we could all have a homeschooling community somewhere... but I know how all of the wonderful people here contribute so much and bring God's light to those around them. Praying for your family and your situation, that you may find the property -- and the privacy and support -- your family needs.
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stef
mom to five
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ALmom
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Oh my, praying for you. What a frightening experience and how frustrating.
I too have let my dc do all kinds of things - the 12 yo uses some tools of dh, my dh has had all dc on the roof (even younger ones - frightening to me) and they all wander through the woods, take walks in the neighborhood (pairing together or taking the German Shepherd with them and a cell phone), etc. I have never had anyone comment on these other than one neighbor kindly inquire if I knew that ds was using power tools(not a nosey neighbor thing but a neighborly thing as she did not know my dh was supervising and had given him years of training before allowing supervised use).
I will say I have detected a distinct difference in attitudes towards large families by region. The south seems to still expect the exploration, and are not paranoid about injuries, lawsuits, etc. Neighbors still work out things with neighbors like when I was growing up. While you may get the "Are all these yours" questions and an occassional question about "which are his and which are yours" , you don't generally get people adament about the number of children you have. You may occassionally run into the "do you know what causes this - and while extremely rude and reflecting the oozing of the anti-life mentality, it generally is not meant as a criticism but as a conversation starter. I guess we're still fighting that part of the civil war - keep the government out of my business - very independent minded and lots of sons being taught to hunt by dads. There may be a few liberal minded beaurocrats that think the government has to protect dc from normal parents, most of the time people here resent that and have very strong feelings about parents being in charge of the education and upbringing of their children (Bible belt, I guess) and they'd die to defend your right to do so - even if they thought homeschooling was the most idiotic thing they ever heard of or thougth 2 children was all they could handle.
I have always felt extremely tense visiting large northern cities with all my dc - there is a distinct gut feeling that children are not welcome but in the way and I cringed at it. A visit to DC was the first time I was ever snubbed simply because of the number of children. We were so relieved to see Mother Theresa's nuns walking along the street - it was a sight to refresh our drooping spirits as we could wave and smile and actually someone smiled back at us!
The only person here that I am aware of that had a visit from DHR was a mom of many - the mom thought it was a social worker checking on her family. As it turned out someone thought she was running a daycare without a license - and once the worker realized these really were the mom's own children, they had a good laugh and the worker was very, very interested in homeschooling and wanted more information .
Actually, we were told by a policeman that the majority of police officers here homeschool.
Now who was speaking of areas - one positive in our area.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Against big families
