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SeaStar
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 6:35am | IP Logged
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I was at a state park recently and watched as a family of 6 ( mom, dad and kids from 11 down to about 4) tackled a rocky cliff: huge pile up of rocks on the edge of steep cliff. The cliff was steep as in you would probably die or be seriously injured if you fell off the rocks into the water below (also full of jagged rocks).
Anyway, this family didn't even slow down as they raced to the rocks and immediately started climbing all over them. No one helped the 4 yo or even held his hand. I did see the kids wobble and then catch their balance more than once.
It was like a nightmare for me to watch, but it also got me wondering if I am too protective of my dc.
The next day at the playground I saw a mom let her 14 month old climb up a steep bank under a bridge. No one helped him or stood at the bottom of the incline to catch him if he fell. It was a long way to the top for a 14 month old. The mom just said: be careful! and walked up the stairs to meet him at the top.
None of these parents appeared to worry that their dc could be hurt or killed. Is that the new trend... have we gone from hovering to laissez-faire? 
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 8:08am | IP Logged
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Or these parents already knew what their children were capable of. It's doubtful that either of those two incidents were the first time that the child tackled that particular task even if it was a new location. It could easily be experience rather than laissez-faire.
Some children are way more inclined to physical tasks, like climbing, than others. And the age range for learning tasks can be huge.
We have an old fashioned tall double slide at a local park, most of my kids have been climbing up it and sliding down since they were about 18mo. Because that's the age they tended to be when I could no longer catch them before they'd practically be at the top anyway. Sure, it's scary, but they're competent and quite capable of doing it (demonstrably). But that doesn't mean that every child is capable of that task at that same age.
But my children are climbers. It's pretty much a given that around the age of 3, in the summer, I'll have to have that child removed from the shed roof. Not because it's allowed, but every child except my first (well and the last 2) has gone through that (and she was 4 when we moved here). People tell me to just put things "up" *snort* I ran out of "up" 12 years ago when my second oldest was 3 and could climb into the rafters in the garage without a ladder. No he wasn't allowed to continue it once I caught him.. but it still takes time to make a young child understand a new rule (didn't know I needed that rule).
But other people never run into these things.  And I'm sure they think of my kids just like you said.. oh I'm not parenting them and I'm letting them do these dangerous things. I can't stop them. Soon as I prevent one, they find another. So, yep I let them do things that others would be uncomfortable with. But they've demonstarted to me their competence.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 8:26am | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
| People tell me to just put things "up" *snort* I ran out of "up" 12 years ago |
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Yep. My 2 year old keeps stealing apples, and I was just telling dh how I can't imagine where we could possibly keep them out of reach! I also ditched the kitchen step stool when he was 9 months but just asked dh if we could have a step stool in the kitchen again because *I* need it, and ds doesn't 
The cliff story above scares me, but the embankment story sounds like something my monkeys would do. I try to trust that other parents know their kids.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 9:03am | IP Logged
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I think this can be a question with a few different right answers.
I could absolutely see the bank under the bridge being a "hill to climb" and letting my kids scurry up.
It's hard to envision the rocky cliff situation, but I have let my kids climb steep, rocky areas with dad before, so there have been situations where that would take place, too.
There are several situations that I let my children have more freedom than other moms that keep their children closer. Some of that I think is a factor of growing experience as a mom. Sometimes, I do see that having a number of siblings that both show the way, help and train does factor into things the family does now as opposed to when we only had one or two kids. A big factor for me is understanding the abilities of my children, and training them to "use their powers for good."  And some of that extra freedom we give is a function of a decision that my husband and I made when we were new parents - we did not want to be so restrictive that we over-used our restriction card. We wanted the kids to have as much freedom in exploring, climbing, getting dirty and taking risks as we could reasonably give. We did our best to train them to recognize dangers that were very real, and then set limited boundaries.
This has been good for all of our children, but especially for our boys. Boys are naturally more eager to jump in to situations that seem dangerous (to me). We decided early on that rather than restrict the boys, we would rather invest our time in training them to recognize healthy boundaries so they could feel freedom to explore and so I could feel like we had equipped them to make simple decisions. Those healthy boundaries are a long way from staying by my side, but do involve some simple training. An example is that by 6 years old my second son could climb to the top of a very tall oak tree. It was a serious concern of mine, but his climbing abilities are extraordinary, and he needed that outlet so we showed him how to test a branch for sturdiness to support his weight, how to climb slowly and be sure of steps, and then let him go. Climbing is a part of inherent "boy-ness."
As a mother, we naturally tend to be more protective and cautious I think, so I often turn to my husband to ask if "x" or "y" is probably ok for a particular child. He's good at helping me let go in an area I would normally hold the reins a little tighter or feel uncertain about just letting the child go.
So...while I can't be certain about the situations you describe, Melinda, I can say that my own comfort level in situations like that has mellowed over the years, and it's also been something that I recognized early on that I didn't want my comfort level to necessarily dictate a limit or boundary all the time. There have been countless situations with my kids that have taken me WAY outside my comfort level. Sometimes I think that God was stretching me there for a good for that child.
CrunchyMom wrote:
| I try to trust that other parents know their kids. |
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This.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
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Aagot
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 9:11am | IP Logged
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That would be my kids. And I sit at the park and wonder why that mom tells her 3 year old not to climb the playstructure when my 18 month old has been doing it for a while now by himself. I agree with Jodie, everyone is different and what has the child proven he can do?
That does not mean I have never thought, "what in the world are those parents thinking?" it is just that I know my kids ability better than other kids'.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 9:16am | IP Logged
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Oh another quick thought.. regarding the rock climbing (scrambling?) If the parents are experienced with climbing and scrambling and the like.. they can also likely assess the actual risks of a fall better than I could. Something that looks to me like you'd fall off a cliff to your death, they may look at and know that there would be a very low possibility of that, that the falls would be much shorter before you'd stop.
And regardless of my children's ability, something like the rock climbing would not be in my comfort level, for 2 reasons, the first being that *I* am unreasonably scared of falling and the higher the potential fall (regardless of the probability of the fall) the more that kicks in and second, because of the first I don't have the experience to judge the safety or lack of the activity.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 9:22am | IP Logged
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I agree with all the above. I was having a "discussion" with a friend the other day that was similiar to this. She was so upset because she saw kids riding their skate boards to school and thought they were too young for that. I told her that it's the parent's responsibility to determine when their child is mature enough to do that not hers. I couldn't get her to see my side of it at all. But, this mother allows her ds 9 to watch violent R rated movies and thinks there is nothing wrong with that. 
The rock climbing thing made me nervous though!
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Cassie
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SeaStar
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 11:59am | IP Logged
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I totally get that parents are able to judge the best what their dc can handle.
With the rock cliff... it looked something similar to this:
but even rockier, and on the other side of the rocks there was a sheer drop off into the water with more rocks sticking up from below. I just could not imagine letting a 4 year old loose here.
Also totally understand about kids doing things, like climbing rafters in the garage, before you can stop them.
Here's a questions: how close to the edge would you let your kids stand at the Grand Canyon in spot without guard rails?
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
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body length back and further back if they wouldn't stand still and someone holding onto them if they were still at an age likely to move too fast to grab.. but I have a problem with heights 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 12:34pm | IP Logged
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SeaStar wrote:
| I just could not imagine letting a 4 year old loose here. |
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That sounds like the limit of your comfort level then.
SeaStar wrote:
| Here's a questions: how close to the edge would you let your kids stand at the Grand Canyon in spot without guard rails? |
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It would depend on age, how well the child listens, the child's ability to exercise good judgement, and if the child is little if someone is holding his hand.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Erica Sanchez
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| Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 6:00pm | IP Logged
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Melinda,
Without a rail? Not close at all! :)
I tend to be more cautious, though, even though my young boys are on the roof, too. My four year old would not be on those rocks without someone holding his hand, if that makes you feel better. I would not have been able to sit and watch if truly there was danger of someone slipping and falling.
Is it old age or hormones or what, but I have become completely afraid of heights as I've aged when I was not before. So, I guess that plays into my fear of letting any of my children be near the edge of anything. My dh on the other hand....oh boy. I'd rather not be there.
Trust your instincts, Melinda, and try not to worry about others.
We've been in the ICU/Trauma section of the hospital many times this year and there are many more preventable accidents than reported in the news (our own near drowning!), so I can totally understand what you are saying. But, ultimately, God is in control.
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Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Martha
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| Posted: Oct 18 2013 at 10:57am | IP Logged
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I lost all my *up* over a decade ago. LOL
They may know their kids better or they might have puke behind their smile. (that's me. I can't watch and when I do it's with a puke smile as my dh refers to it.)
I am often unsure how I lived to adulthood. That cliff picture? I used to climb atop something similar when I was 8+ and jump. I'd take a barefoot running leap off that. I remember cautioning the other kids on the cliff to never jump head first because THAT was dangerous. LOLOL
I thought I'd found some relief in my third born because he likes his feet firmly planted on solid ground. Then he decided he liked helping my dad blow up beaver dams and is thinking of joining the army to work demolitions and disarmament. Holy holy. Give me back the cliff diving option!
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Martha
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Vanna
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| Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 12:37pm | IP Logged
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lol I am a HUGE chicken about doing things myself...and even more so for letting my kids do them. I work on this because I know when I'm not around, Dad lets them do all kinds of things that would make me faint.
There is a commercial on tv (I can't remember the actual product being sold) but it shows a Mom's face on a tv screen that is attached to a drone. The little drone (small helicopter) is flying around a college campus, monitoring the college age sons/daughters as they go about their day. My husband looked at me and said, "You want one of those, don't you?" Guilty.
I need to work on this.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Taking risks: your comfort level
