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jawgee
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| Posted: Sept 23 2013 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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Whew. I just don't know how to do this. I am so frustrated.
For the past several weeks, my boys (ages 11 and 7) give me so much trouble when it's time to do school. I write up a general plan each day and basically let them work down the list as they prefer, although I set general "recommended" time-frames.
I am pulling my hair out. My 7YO DS will just sit with his arms crossed and refuse to do it until he's good and ready (which could be anywhere from 10 minutes to 6 hours from our start time). I beg, cajole, bribe  , punish, take away privileges. No, I don't handle it so well. I just want him to DO what he needs to DO. It's not that hard. It's about 90 minutes worth of work, plus or minus, broken up between about six different subjects.
My 11YO generally will do what he needs to do, although he won't put forth any effort unless it's something that he likes to do. Beginning this year, for example, I asked him to notebook while I am doing the reading (aloud) for science. Science is his least-favorite subject. He constantly has something to say:
"This is so dumb."
"I don't get why I have to do science anyway."
"Why doesn't the 7YO have to do this when he listens?"
"I know basic science. Can't we just be done?"
Help me. I feel like I'm drowning with bad attitude. When they are ready to do something that requires my help, they expect me to drop everything immediately and tend to their needs. I am so bottled up with frustration I don't know if I'm going to scream at someone or just cry.
Suggestions? It's been a terrible two weeks...
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
The Catholic Cup on Facebook
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Sept 23 2013 at 11:01am | IP Logged
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I hear you! I don't know if this is a good idea but I am reminded of a time my then 7hr old dd would not eat vegetables. So, we had peas one day - I finally said - ok you don't get up till you eat the peas on your plate. Mind you, I put something like 5 peas there LOL! She cried made a big deal - finally ate the peas (once she did she sat there so long they were cold)!
So, Maybe a couple things: First while working on the attitudes - maybe give them less work (like I gave her only 5 peas) - because these attitudes are just as important (maybe more so) then the academic work. Second, be more specific with what you want accomplished - maybe just one thing at a time. Say, OK - you don't get up till you finish this grammar page. Then when he's done with that give him a 5-10 minute break. Then give him the next thing or couple of things (do several if they are small). If it takes him 2 hours - tell him that was his choice. He does it weather its done in 15 minutes or 2 hours. Third, like I suggested don't give them a check list for the whole day at once for them to control. Yes, that is the eventual goal - but for now give them one thing at a time! You can still have a check list - but I wouldn't leave it to them work it themselves. Let them know that when they are done for the day they are done for the day - weather that is at 1:00, 2:00 or if they still choose to act the way they have been - at 8:00 at night. It is their choice and if they have an attitude the consequences are theirs too!
They will test you - so I'd say get your dh on board so he know why they may still have work to do later. Once my ds when he was in 8th grade - I had to have him meet with me before each subject for me to tell him what he was to do and then after for him to show me he did it.
Maybe this way they will learn that their behavior (both good and bad) has consequences (also good and bad!)
Don't give up!!!
Barb
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Sept 23 2013 at 11:19am | IP Logged
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And I wouldn't keep changing tactics. Set the condsequences and stick with them. Even if it seems they're having no impact. You're out stubborning them rather than shocking them into doing it.
And if you are setting aside time to give them and they're choosing not to work. I would not drop everything at another time to help them. Well this is my time for doing xyz. If you want to help me get it done so I'll have time to help you, otherwise you have to wait until *whenever* you have the next block of time for helping them.
Yes, you're the teacher but you have things you need to do and your time is worth something.
The thing is if you've made lots of exceptions.. telling them you'll help during a set time and then helping at other times and such.. you'll have to be really strict at first without any exceptions until they "get" that you mean what you're saying. And then with typical kids, you can make an occational exception but if the exceptions out number the rule.. you'll run into problems again.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Sept 23 2013 at 11:22am | IP Logged
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OH - I forgot the most important thing: COMPLETELY IGNORE ALL NEGATIVE BEHAVIORS! At this point - give them the work, tell them the bit about you can have a 5-10 min. break when your done with this subject. WHEN they start the negative behavior - act like you don't see it! Don't acknowledge it at all. AND don't show them it bothers you. If you need - go fold laundry, do dishes, get a cup of tea and read a book - whatever. You don't have to bribe, punish. . . because if they don't do the work or they take forever to do it - they really punish themselves because they will eventually have to do the work. . .
And definitely do not give them a recommended time frame - because they will always try to go over it!
Barb
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Sept 23 2013 at 4:02pm | IP Logged
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Oh...I know I empathize greatly!! Two great, can't let these get pass you points of advice from Jodie and Barb ...pick your consequence and stick to it! It's sooo hard but it will help you feel like your spiraling out of control.
Next, ignore negative (annoying) behaviors. Maybe pick 2-3 behaviors you will address and establish the consequence (I do sentences usu. a Bible verse or the positive behavior I'm seeking) but you can't address all bad behaviors and fix everything at once. I have found that, for me, ignoring negative behaviors takes more energy than blowing my top so obviously that's an area I am constantly needing to work on. But, it does help. And having a fixed consequence like 10 sentences for mouthing off keeps me focused on the consequence and not the bad behavior.
Good luck!!
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Sept 23 2013 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
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 I love boys!! They bring some exciting, fun gifts to the table! They also present some unique challenges, too! My boys can do a number of the EXACT things you're describing!
I'd probably consider two different angles for this challenge: behavior expectations and school expectations. I would probably do a lot of brainstorming on the behavior and school end, but I'd let Dad handle the majority of the enforcement and handing out of consequences...especially when it comes to behaviors. Boys respond to dad!! Obviously, you'll have to handle consequences during the school day, which is why it's so important to brainstorm these out first so that they're simple and natural!!
Some of the challenges you're facing may be a result of ill-fitting school expectations, so it's wise to revisit your schedule and plans with an eye toward reasonable, adequate, and fitting. I'm definitely not an advocate of eliminating those things that must remain on the daily schedule - those elements that compose the "discipline" part of education...like math, reading, some (age appropriate) writing, but I have been known to step back and reconsider what I'm asking for. I like to set my kids up for success as much as possible so that there are as few as possible "we all have to do things we don't want to do..." moments.
There aren't one-size-fits-all answers here...so I generally discern this by asking some questions and answering honestly as best I can. Don't think of the two boys together when you ask questions - think of one boy at a time, his age, maturity, abilities, challenges, etc.
- Is there a reasonable, workable daily routine in place? (If not, brainstorm a routine first! Basic routine: chores, eat, work::lessons, eat, chores, free time, work:: lessons, eat. No work completed = no eating.)
- Have I set some basic, reasonable consequences:
** I'll give you choices on the order you complete your school as long as you complete work with no reminders or complaining. If you can't handle that responsibility, I'll take charge of what you do and when. Non-negotiable!
** No school work completed --> no meal. Period
** Extra whining means you have extra words to use --> write sentences.
** I am available from the hours of x to x, if you mis-use your time --> you can ask Dad for help, but I will not be available. Period. - What are this child's natural passions?
- Have I allowed for plenty of margin (free time for exploration) in the schedule?
- Does this child enjoy it when his interests and passions are pursued as part of the daily schedule? (My children thrive on this, for other children, it kills their interest...so it's important to identify this so you can plan appropriately)
- Am I stretching this child too far developmentally?
- Are this child's gross motor skills able to keep up with the work required?
- What is this child's primary weak area? (Distraction is a common problem with boys!)
- Can I brainstorm ways/tools to help this child work through or around his primary weak area so I can set him up for success?
- Would this child work better in the morning or afternoon or with his day divided up?
- Have I overfilled the schedule with redundant work? (It may be "pretty" or seem fun, but it may ALSO be overwhelming)
- In subjects that are NOT favorites: how am I approaching the subject? Sometimes a creative, "fun" angle is helpful...but sometimes the child just prefers the minimum necessary to call it good enough and "fun" stuff just seems like extra, superflous stuff in an area they already don't like.
- Did I sit down with this child to go over his school schedule? Did this child have input? (I don't give the child free reign, but I've always found it's easier to say, "we agreed on this at the beginning of the term and you understood how important it is to complete 'x'."
- Do I sit down with this child regularly (doesn't take a long time), and ask questions about how the schedule is going? Favorite subjects? Least favorite - and why?
- Does this child have everything they need (all books and tools) gathered and organized so that finding things isn't a stumbling block?
My boys are close in age to yours, and they need very clear direction about what they do and when. They might like to make more choices on their own, but they almost self-destruct if I let them. And things spiral downhill quickly. So, I try to give them freedom within tighter boundaries. An example of that would be that they have a certain time they have to get up, do their chores, eat breakfast and be done. After that, I may give an older boy specific directions like: "Go get your history and geography reading and get started and I'll listen to your narrations right after I'm done with 7yo." And to the 7 yo, I might ask, "shall we work on math first, or would you like to read aloud to me first?" So, there are choices there, but they're VERY limited and not as overwhelming.
Don't let these last two weeks be too discouraging, Monica! It's a great time to do some reflecting, talk with your husband (my husband often gives me FANTASTIC INSIGHT on our boys!!!), and just tweak your plan and what you're doing a little! Work to set up a basic daily routine and enforce it for a few days/weeks so it becomes habit, come up with some VERY EASY to follow through on natural consequences, and address little areas of your school schedule so it's workable and reasonable! Three things. You can do this!! 
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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jawgee
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| Posted: Sept 23 2013 at 6:53pm | IP Logged
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Thank you so much for your replies. I'm going to read these over carefully and prayerfully. I may come back with some more specific questions about what I should expect from each of them at their age. In the meantime, though, I so appreciate each of you taking the time to respond.
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
The Catholic Cup on Facebook
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*Lindsey*
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| Posted: Sept 24 2013 at 9:42am | IP Logged
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I am getting lots of helpful information from this thread! My DS (almost 10) and DD (8) have been absolute bears at getting school done the last few weeks.
Thanks for starting this, Monica.
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Lindsey
Mama to DS (11), DD(9), twin dds(7), DD (5), DS (4), DS (3), and 5 angels in heaven.
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Vanna
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| Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 1:49pm | IP Logged
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You have received some great advice above so I am just going to list a few things my 7 year old boy has said about school work just in the past 2 weeks....you are definitely not alone.
1. I hate learning stuff.
2. School is dumb.
3. Reading is boring.
4. Can't I just learning something without using writing or reading....or, you know, doing stuff?
5. Why do I have to learn when I will just take B (his 17 year old brother) with me where ever, for the rest of my life, I go so he can just handle it all?
Um...I think brother might have something to say about that plan.
 Hang in there. Boys are a handful. 
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Wife to K  Mommy to B (ds18) and G (ds8)
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: So frustrated...attitudes, school, etc.
