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Dawnie
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| Posted: May 16 2006 at 5:38pm | IP Logged
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Okay, I am really frustrated with my kids today and I'm hoping that some of you will have some helpful suggestions.
I have 3 daughters, ages 7, 4, and 2. I'm pregnant with our 4th baby, who is due in November. The toy and clothes clutter in our home is driving me insane. I hate stepping on/tripping on clothes and clutter in almost every room of the house. I want my two older kids to keep their stuff in their rooms and to tidy up their rooms every day. I haven't been very consistent about this since my husband works 2nd shift (he's not home until 11pm) and I'm usually pretty tired in the evenings. I realize that my own self-discipline is part of the problem, but I'm at a loss as to how to get my older two kids to pick up after themselves consistently without me having to stand over them and tell them what to do every step of the way.
What kinds of consequences do you use if your kids don't pick up/do their chores? I am just at my wits end when it comes to kid clutter. I don't think it's asking too much to require them to pick up their own messes and to do a few simple chores (like wiping down the table, sweeping, helping Mommy dry dishes), but they cry and act like I'm being unreasonable when I ask them to do these things. If you have been successful in training your kids to help and to pick up after themselves, PLEASE share!
Dawn
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Sarah
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| Posted: May 16 2006 at 6:13pm | IP Logged
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Pick a couple chores at first and assign them to a time of day. For example, my older kids have about five simple chores to do after breakfast. The two older have specific after dinner jobs-one clears & wipes the table and one (kind of) sweeps.
I make the boys pick up "what they did and what's theirs" at least once a day and we spruce their room each night. Make sure they KNOW where things go and make sure they can actually accomplish the chore.
In the end, you are in a hard spot because, in my opinion, a 7yo still can't do much as far as making your house LOOK better. My 7yo (boy) is really frustrating when it comes to cleaning/pick-up.
Sometimes I say pick up 10 things and put them away. If you vaguely say, "clean this place up!" and aren't specific, they get overwhelmed and do NOTHING.
Your 4yo and 2yo are just mess-makers and can pick up if you are right there pointing. At least that's my 2yo and 4yo. They can cheerfully help, and like to please, but can't do much on their own.
Your kids are still really little.
If you saw my house, you would wonder why I was giving you any tips at all. 
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ALmom
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It is hard with a younger set because the activity is usually learned by doing with. The best way I was able to get my dc to tidy up was to call clean-up time and then we all sat together and did it together until they were older and it was more of a habit. I think by 7 or 8, they certainly could be able to do it on their own (with some reminders), if it was a habit already. Starting new, it may take a bit more mom working with them and showing them before it takes.
The other thing is that I find that it doesn't help to say, "pick up what you have messed up" as there are usually several playing and each child thinks the others were the last to play and therefore the one responsible. Therefore, I call everyone and assign - A, you get the blocks, B get the trains and C get the army men. I generally assign the youngest the item with fewer stuff out. With everyone working together, they tend to follow each other's example. I make it a bit of a game if I have energy - especially in the learning stage. With boys it becomes a competition to see who can clean the fastest.
One other thing we have done - we have a toy monster at our house (mom and dad). When ample warning has been given, with specific instructions and toys remain unpicked up where I have to do it in order not to break our necks - then I draw the conclusion that dc are overwhelmed with too much stuff and I box up what is left out. It goes up high - but visible and dc cannot play with it for a while. When asked, we simply point out that mommy (or daddy) had to clean up and now it is in time out for a while. Next time maybe the dc will pick up when asked so it doesn't get claimed. The stuff stays up there until dc shows the ability to keep up with stuff. Sometimes they con grandmother who doesn't know it is in time out - but then they are usually very, very careful to pick it up so I don't really mind.
The other thing I had to do was go over things with dc, so that everything had its placed. Too much clutter and no one knows what to do. The simpler the better.
Janet
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Cici
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| Posted: May 16 2006 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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Sarah wrote:
Your 4yo and 2yo are just mess-makers and can pick up if you are right there pointing. At least that's my 2yo and 4yo. They can cheerfully help, and like to please, but can't do much on their own.
Your kids are still really little.
If you saw my house, you would wonder why I was giving you any tips at all. |
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 Same here. Both the opinion that your kids are really little and that if you saw my house you would wonder why I'm chiming in here.
My dd is 4 and my ds is 19 months. Several times a day we clean up the toys - I pick a particular area. Sometimes the family room, sometimes the living room, yadada. Then I join in. DD usually pitches right in. If she doesn't, then I simply remind her that I asked to her to help clean up the toys a little bit, and we can play again we are finished (if she's in the middle of something then, obviously, that toy is exempt from clean up). I expect her to clean up about half of what is there - she doesn't know this - and I expect ds to pick up one thing. It's done in a flash and everyone can immediately get back to work in pulling all the toys out again. .
Of course, you can always do what I do when I feel overwhelmed - start decluttering. We have had many a toy stowe away in the bottom of a goodwill box on the way to make a different child happy. As well, we have had many a toy stowe away at the bottom of a trash can. 
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mary
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| Posted: May 16 2006 at 8:25pm | IP Logged
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my kids are pretty good at picking up. they are 8,5 and 3. it all depends on how motivated they are. they get allowance when their room is picked up on sunday. they loose a buck if it's not picked up until monday, 2 for not until tuesday and by wednesday, they are outta luck for the week.
each day they pick up 3 rooms - living room, dining room and sunroom (schoolroom). the tv is tied to picking up and if the rooms are cleaned by 6pm, they can watch tv while i finish dinner.
weekly, i collect items and put them in a basket. then, i assign a 5min pickup for a piece of candy, extra chapter, whatever. they take the basket and put the items away.
the frustrating part for me is that although we pick up every day (i do my bedroom and kitchen and keep the floors clean and laundry going), it will all be trashed again the very next day.
oh, and we also find that if we have too many possessions, it's hard to keep picked up. we often get rid of stuff and then it becomes easier to keep us neat and tidy.
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kristina
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We try to have the "one toy at a time rule" in place, but it is often difficult to enforce (picture mommy on the couch nursing baby while boys litter the house with their treasures.. Thankfully, as the boys have gotten older, it is a tiny bit better.
I have been the barky, grouchy, clean-up-this-mess-now!! bellowing mom  . I admit, though, it does not help a messy environment. It only adds to the chaos. I can share a few things that have worked, though.
Like Sarah, we give our children finite numbers to pick up. Usually twice their age. Sometimes we have races to pick up.
One fun game our boys came up with for clean up is "kangaroo cleanup." They take the plastic grocery bags and slip their arms in each handle. Then they fill their "kangaroo" pouch with items to put away.
A funny story... a few years ago we rushed out of the house on Easter morning, not to return until evening. Upon our return, we discovered an abyss of a living room. Pajamas strewn about. Easter basket loot everywhere. Soooo... we placed the coloured eggs under several items for the boys to discover. They had to put away whatever item that the eggs were found under. They were able to trade in their hardboiled eggs for Easter treats and the room was cleaned up in a snap.
Lastly, my husband is famous for decluttering toys he tripped over. We place them in a storage bin in the basement, then we bring back a missed toy after a while and it is like a new toy.. perfect if you must be on the phone or have another adult visiting with you.
Blessings,
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Dawnie
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Sarah wrote:
| Pick a couple chores at first and assign them to a time of day. |
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We've been doing this for awhile. For about 3 months, I've been expecting the 7yo and 4yo to clear their dishes off the table after meals and snacks and to do some simple clean-up jobs. I usually have to remind them SEVERAL times and they dawdle around while doing the chores. I tell them that they are free to play after they finish their chores, so if they dawdle around, they lose some of their free time. This doesn't seem to motivate them to either do the chores right away or to do them in a timely manner, though. I don't know if I just need to be more patient (by allowing them to consistently experience the natural consequence of loss of free time) or if I need to come up with consequences that will get their attention faster.
Sarah wrote:
| I make the boys pick up "what they did and what's theirs" at least once a day and we spruce their room each night. |
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How do you "make" them pick up? Do they ever refuse to pick up? What do you do if they don't do it?
Sarah wrote:
| Make sure they KNOW where things go and make sure they can actually accomplish the chore. |
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I think I could work on this more, especially with the 4yo.
Sarah wrote:
| Sometimes I say pick up 10 things and put them away. If you vaguely say, "clean this place up!" and aren't specific, they get overwhelmed and do NOTHING. |
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I think this is what happens with my 4yo. She gets overwhelmed when she sees a big mess in her room and doesn't know where to start.
Sarah wrote:
| If you saw my house, you would wonder why I was giving you any tips at all. |
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Well, I feel better knowing that other hsing moms struggle with keeping the house tidy, too.
I've been doing a lot of the things all of you have suggested. We have taken away toys that aren't picked up, too. We've also sent a lot of toys to Goodwill and the garage sale. There are still way too many, though. Too many doting relatives in town.
I wonder if Ma Ingalls had any trouble getting Mary and Laura to help out?
Dawn
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Erin
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Dawnie wrote:
What kinds of consequences do you use if your kids don't pick up/do their chores? I am just at my wits end when it comes to kid clutter. I don't think it's asking too much to require them to pick up their own messes and to do a few simple chores (like wiping down the table, sweeping, helping Mommy dry dishes), but they cry and act like I'm being unreasonable when I ask them to do these things. If you have been successful in training your kids to help and to pick up after themselves, PLEASE share!
Dawn |
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Dawn
Funny you should ask this, we are just in the process of focusing on bedroom clutter at present. Our number 4 and 5 children who are the same age as your two oldest are also expected to participate in this 'new regime'
I was sharing with my husband that Charlotte Mason says you need six weeks for a good habit to form. We were being driven insane by children not making their beds, nor tidying rooms and still in their pajamas at ten o'clock.  The new rule is they can't come down to breakfast until they are dressed, beds made and rooms tidy. It's wonderful  So that we weren't nagging and to 'incentivise' them they are working towards a goal. They need so many points for a computer game they want, if they fail to do these tasks they lose a point. They are all very good at reminding each other, we don't have to say a word. And these points are stretched out to last six weeks.
As for other chores, well I'll admit that I'm not perfect nor are my children. But after many trials and errors I've realised alot of problems lay with my inconsitency and I still struggle here. However for us charts with jobs written seem to work, they take alot of the nagging away, my children like to look at the chart, it seems to work for them.
The best thing is to takcle one area at a time, get it going smoothly before adding the next chore. Don't worry your not alone on this, I bet most of us struggle with this. 
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Sarah
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| Posted: May 17 2006 at 8:42am | IP Logged
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Dawnie wrote:
Sarah wrote:
| I make the boys pick up "what they did and what's theirs" at least once a day and we spruce their room each night. |
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How do you "make" them pick up? Do they ever refuse to pick up? What do you do if they don't do it?
Well, I feel better knowing that other hsing moms struggle with keeping the house tidy, too.
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I hate to admit this, but I get mad. The kids like to see a happy mom. I'm working on asking them without any anger in my voice. I'm working on being consistent--making it a thing to do--a peg at a certain time each day. (We've been discussing "pegs.") "Pegs" are going to change my life!! 
I don't let the boys off the hook. I stay right there until its done. If someone sneaks off, I call them back.
And YES, it is often met with grumbles and once in a while a really naughty attitude. That is why I'm trying to fix my "attitude" as well.
And really, I have to DAILY tell myself that PEOPLE are more important than THINGS! I need to stop caring so much about what my house looks like. But in moving to a happier home life means I NEED TO BE CONSISTENT IN HOLDING THE CHILDREN ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR MESSES (in a loving way ).
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JennGM
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Sarah wrote:
And YES, it is often met with grumbles and once in a while a really naughty attitude. That is why I'm trying to fix my "attitude" as well.
And really, I have to DAILY tell myself that PEOPLE are more important than THINGS! I need to stop caring so much about what my house looks like. But in moving to a happier home life means I NEED TO BE CONSISTENT IN HOLDING THE CHILDREN ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR MESSES (in a loving way ). |
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Elizabeth's post this morning fits in well with this conversation: The corollary to the task chart....
I've been trying to work on this myself. I only have one, but he makes a mess. I look around, though, and realize I'm not a good role model, if I'm not keeping my counters clean and cutting down on the clutter. And be happy and patient....
I also was hoping someone would chime in on how one practices the Montessori way of playing with one thing and putting it away before taking something else out. The hard part is that each thing does need a place...another thing Mommy has to do...but I'm trying to work on that, also.
If too many things are out, and ds asks for something, I give him a goal: clean this toy and this toy up and we'll watch Signing Time or have a snack. He's very routine and goal oriented, so if I give him the detailed steps, he responds well.
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Dawnie
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Sarah wrote:
I hate to admit this, but I get mad. The kids like to see a happy mom. I'm working on asking them without any anger in my voice. I'm working on being consistent--making it a thing to do--a peg at a certain time each day. (We've been discussing "pegs.") "Pegs" are going to change my life!!
I don't let the boys off the hook. I stay right there until its done. If someone sneaks off, I call them back.
And YES, it is often met with grumbles and once in a while a really naughty attitude. That is why I'm trying to fix my "attitude" as well.
And really, I have to DAILY tell myself that PEOPLE are more important than THINGS! I need to stop caring so much about what my house looks like. |
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We're in the same boat, Sarah! I get mad, too. I'm always in the confessional for losing my temper with my kids.
In my home growing up, my mother was always so ashamed of the way our house looked, we hardly ever had anyone over. If anyone showed up unannounced, the first thing she would say was, "I'm sorry about the mess!" It really stressed her out. Every once in awhile she would freak out about the mess and "go on the rampage" (as my brother and sister called it). You would think by the way my room looked as a teenager that I wouldn't care that much about a mess, but it really bugs me now. It's so hard to let go of that "Better Homes and Gardens" vision for my home. Maybe that's just not realistic for a large homeschooling family with young children. I have to keep reminding myself that my home doesn't have to be in a photo shoot and that people actually live here.
And Jenn, I have tried to teach my kids to play with one toy at a time and then put it away. It seems, though, that teaching them to make it a habit would require constant supervision of their playtime until the habit was well established. How long would that take? Three to six weeks? Montessori teachers are able to just sit and observe the children and teach them the rules for as long as the children are there. We live in a real home, where certain things have to be done (mostly by Mom) to ensure the smooth functioning of family life. I have to wash the dishes, wash and fold the clothes, prepare meals, and do a certain amount of paperwork and planning for the good of the family. My kids help out with some of these things, but their chores almost never take as long as mine do in the same room. So when they are done, they are free to play while I finish up. Which means that I can't supervise their play, usually. It seems that some moms are able to apply Montessori philosophy and practices very well in their family life. I'd like to know how they do that and still take care of their other responsibilities as wives and mothers. I've read just a few Montessori books myself, so I'm not an expert in this area. But from what I have read, it seems to be an educational method meant for a classroom, not a home.
After reading your responses, I think that maybe I'm being unrealistic in my expectations of my kids. It seems that I just need to keep doing what I'm doing (which is the same thing most of you are doing) and be patient and more consistent. I'm not involved in a lot of activities outside my home, so I end up getting pretty isolated. For me, not being around other children, leads to unrealistic expectations for my own children.
Dawn &n bsp;
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ALmom
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| Posted: May 17 2006 at 10:09pm | IP Logged
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Well - I should have also admitted that we are all clutter bugs at our house so our house never is really neat. You might wonder about me piping in as well if you really looked at our house. What I mean by clean is that :
There is nothing I or my dh has to trip over to travel through the various rooms in the house.
There are not piles of stuff on the kitchen table or counters for us to have to move in order to function. I will interrupt dc to get abandoned items as soon as I notice them. Eventually it is easier to take the few extra steps to put them home in the first place.
Things in the main living area of the home are basically kept up.
The dc bedrooms are an entirely different matter - I don't stress over these day to day as the doors can be closed. However, there are times when things are so out of hand that we require clean - up, followed by room inspection before any outdoor time. With a teenager, just invite someone over to visit and let drop that they might get a tour of the house. This doesn't work with the 7 and under crowd - and many a guest has seen what looks like a natural disaster area as they peep into dc room. (We are still training here as there is something to be said for orderliness. But I'm still in training too - so...)
Neatness is still a work in progress here, though we do habitually clean up toys (some dc are better than others). Putting a neat freak with a messy child for bedroom sharing helps too . My dh is the organized, neat freak - even had blue shirts on blue hangars until he met me (and the garage was always neater than the house) but he keeps me from letting our room get too out of hand. I have it much easier now because I have many older dc to help supervise clean-up. It is much, much harder with only littles.
Now the mess becomes paper all over the computer area, frantic searches for the paper that just has to be turned in to the co-op teacher, etc., etc., etc. The other day I started to fuss at my teen about her desk/work area - and had to stop, laugh and say, "Well, I guess I cannot say too much. Look at my desk!" But, today while I was running an errand with the 3 yo, all the dc cleaned the whole downstairs. They even washed the windows (something I've almost never done).
My biggest weakness is going nuts over missing pieces of anything. My dear sister just threw stuff out. Now, me - I put a halt to school and make all search the house until we find the one cherry missing from the High Ho Cherrio game that my dd bought with her own money for a $1 years ago and could care less about now (at 18 it no longer thrills her, but I keep it around for the littles). We've had to turn this into an inside joke on me - and have a good laugh whenever I get into this mode. But the dc are good about helping me find whatever the nutty thing is.
I do call dc in from outside if I see a game that is left out or something not put away before being abandoned. However, we could never make a one thing at a time rule. If they play with the trains, then the blocks and duplos are used to build structures and our bucket of tiny plastic animals become the passengers. They even build houses around the train and may use play dishes to feed the animal passengers. I just try to have a big bucket for each of the different items - and don't stress too much if blocks get thrown with duplos as long as everything is off the floor. We do have a rule about no little toys kept downstairs in case we have littles over with our 3 yo. I don't want someone elses 3 yo to choke on our legos.
Been fun reading this!
Janet & nbsp;
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1st grade mom
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| Posted: May 18 2006 at 8:43am | IP Logged
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"However, we could never make a one thing at a time rule. If they play with the trains, then the blocks and duplos are used to build structures and our bucket of tiny plastic animals become the passengers. They even build houses around the train and may use play dishes to feed the animal passengers."
I agree with this. That's why I could never subscribe to the one at a time rule either. Kids can be so creative combining this and that, but my living room suffers for it ;) .
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kristina
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Our one toy at a time rule is one toy per child. That is five toys out at a time. If they put it away after, I could not have an issue. Our kids have a habit of pulling out every leappad book, leaving them in a messy pile, then using the one book, then leaving the leappad on the floor . Apply that situation to any toy, (enormous) stack of books, etc... One would think we have fifteen children, not five. We are a work in progress. It just comes down to training with good examples and a gentle loving voice.
One practical thing that has helped is that the children received a train table for Christmas. Train parties, legofests, lincoln log villages, creations with gears, etc.. have kept them busy for hours this past (long) winter. They have had much better success at keeping their play area "playable" (for lack of a better word). I find that when they have a gazillion toys out all spread about the house, they become overwhelmed and soon begin to ask for a video.
Blessings,
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kristina
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Training children to pick-up
