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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 08 2013 at 2:24pm | IP Logged
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So we are finishing our 4th year of homeschooling and DH is on board with this path yet I don't *feel* I get the support needed. He goes to work every day and works hard and makes a good living and he's a great dad but if any of you listen to Dr. Ray, he would be, in my opinion, the typical "Disney Dad". Now, he has heard Dr. Ray and laughed at that analogy but then gets realllly mad if I ever call him that. It's b/c he thinks that I'm trying to say he doesn't "do" anything which is the furthest from the truth...which I've said. I've just stated that I can't drive this all these other boats by myself (discipline, education, housekeeping, physical care, spiritual care, not to mention DS's special learning issues etc.) Or at least w/o feeling like he's undermining my efforts.
Here are 2 recent incidents that are typical of a cross-roads which we cannot seem to bridge:
1) Yesterday, DD 5 was absolutely terrible in the afternoon. Cranky, whiney, disobedient to the point that she eventually was taken to her room to calm down. I told her she could read books and rest (to get her out of the fray of busyness) until her dad got home. Whether she's going thru a growth spurt or cutting 6 yr molars that make her cranky or what...he's seen her behave this way lately too. So, anyway, he gets home and during conversation, I tell him that she's in her room and then later mention that she needs to go to bed early b/c she's having such a hard time controlling her emotions during the day. He tells me I can take DS to scouts so I can "get away" and he handles everything. Again, that's all great and wonderful but DS and I get home a little after 9 and she is STILL awake. She's in bed but not asleep so whatever...can't force her to sleep. Until today, I found out he went to the store and bought them all ice cream last night! I'm like, do what? After the way she behaved she certainly didn't "earn" or "deserve" ice cream! After I talked w/ him he says "well, you didn't say she couldn't have dessert". First, we hardly ever eat dessert. Second, it seems obvious to me that since he KNEW she was naughty with me during the day she shouldn't be getting a treat from dad at night. He just says sorry not to argue. To me, this is a wedge between her continuing to think that what she does during the day doesn't matter b/c once dad comes home it's all fun and games?
A couple other examples it became apparent that DD 5 couldn't go to bed w/ her door open b/c the 2 big kids kept her awake so I told her we needed to shut her door until big kids went to bed. I discussed w/ DH and yet 1/2 the time he doesn't do it and when I ask he says "what's the big deal anyway?" Uhhh...she's not going to sleep!?
I don't let 2 yr old have open cup at table b/c she's *constantly* spilling it yet he comes home and thinks "what's the big deal" and gives her a cup and lo and behold...it spills! Then I get mad. He thinks I make too big a deal over everything. Well, he's not here all day cleaning up messes like this. He's not here all day and wanting little ones to go to bed/stay in room at night so I can decompress.
2) I asked him weeks ago to take over DS's math lessons. I explained that between the 2 yo refusing to nap and 5 yo, we/DS is not getting the proper amount of attention during the day for math b/c I have to spend so much other time w/ him on other language arts and speech activities. DD 14 already helps during all those times and I thought if DH could help him during evening, I could then take the 2 and 5 and they could have the quiet he needs to focus on math. He agreed. Yet, here we are probably 6-8 weeks later and he's done maybe 5 lessons with him. He's YET to take the initiative to see whether math needs to be done, has been done, whether he can help get it done. It becomes, for me, like a 5th child I need to walk him thru...here's the book, he's on this lesson etc. If he took it over, why do I still need to hold his hand to complete what should be his job now? However, since he's not seen to it that it's getting done, I've had to somehow add it back into our day. Which is exactly what we were doing yesterday when the 5 yo was melting down.
Sooo...can you see this thru a different lense? These are only 2 samples of where I feel he just does not provide the kind of support needed and yet he just wants to say "sorry" and move on. But that doesn't solve anything. ?!?!? Sorry this is so very long. I thought it would be really short, quick question.  I hope this venting isn't too much but we really are not seeing eye to eye and it's causing tremendous friction.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Bethany
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Kathryn,
I understand what you're saying. My DH's job saps him of a lot of energy. And I often lament to myself that I wish he would take more initiative with the kids educationally and spiritually. BUT, and that's a big but, I'm also VERY thankful that he isn't too involved  . I came home a few weekends ago after getting a haircut and doing a little shopping and as I pulled in a feeling of extreme thankfulness came over me that my husband trusted me to do these things without giving me a hard time about cost and also took care of the girls while I was out. I'm also very thankful that he isn't on me to use an accredited program or demanding things of our homeschooling. He is very supportive of me and lets me make most of the decisions regarding homeschooling. At times I wish he would give more input (see my other post today ), but he's just not that interested. He does read aloud to the girls some nights. He's more the nerf gun, go camping, play football dad. And he has 5 girls!
On discipline, we're probably the opposite of you. I'm the more lenient and he's the more demanding. I've had to really learn to bite my tongue. I've also realized I've spent too much time reading different parenting/homeschooling philosophies and I tend to overanalyze. He doesn't, so he doesn't question himself like I do. That must be nice .
Not sure that anything I've written will help. I just know that when I'm unhappy with DH over things like this, I just try to think of the alternative. I usually find that I wouldn't be happy with that either, so I need to work on my attitude.
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Bethany
Wife to Mike, Mommy to Amelia (6/02), Sarah (10/03), Martha Grace (10/05), Rebecca Anne (12/07), Laura Catherine (3/10) and Reed Michael 7/4/14.
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SeaStar
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Kathryn-
In reading all this, I wonder if there is another way your dh could help.
Could he take the 2yo and 5 yo out of the picture for a short time in the evenings for you so that you could work with ds in a quiet setting?
There could be several options here:
he could take them to the grocery store and have them do some fun shopping with Daddy (give him a list with exactly what you need). That kills two birds with one stone- saves you a shopping trip and gives you time with ds
Take them outside for a walk (because obviously he's not going to take them shopping every night) or have him be in charge of bath time while you do math.
Have a special daddy play or reading story time so that they are busy during math.
If you assign a specific time each evening, you could say, "OK, now it's time to go with dad while mom and ds finish up some schoolwork".
That way dad can wing it- he just has to keep the little ones busy, not figure out math, where you were in the lesson yesterday, check answers, etc. And you don't have to keep after him about what is being done- you just have to tell him it's time for him to keep the little ones busy for half an hour.
After working all day, my dh wouldn't be really excited about having to do math with ds every night, and ds would just want to goof off with dad, having him all to himself. But my dh loves to come home and play with the kids. Maybe that could work for you. 
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 08 2013 at 3:58pm | IP Logged
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Bethany...I initially try to do that and think of all to be thankful for but we're at a point that I am so very overwhelmed and frankly, overburdened with everything that I need help. I've asked repeatedly, I've offered suggestions for ways to help, I've attempted to implement strategies with the kids that I think will help and I just feel that he's not "on board". I know he's tired for sure but frankly, so am I.
Melinda...I think the thought was that b/c DS requires soooo much of my time and energy during the day with all of his lessons in my attempt to give him some semblance of an education that I am "spent" by day's end attempting one more subject with him. The relationship between my DS and I is strained b/c of the intensity of lessons. And if you've read my other posts, I'm not referring to a high level education I am seeking to give him but the rudimentary basics of reading, writing and math. My DH loves math and it seemed to be the only one he could really work with him to do. Thereby, taking one subject and allowing he and DS to work on it together while I'm out of the fray.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Booksnbabes
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Kathryn, ! I have felt as you describe many a time. I will offer my struggles with similar feelings for you.
My first thought was, could you write it out? My dh wants to help, but he just doesn't see what needs to be done, and me telling him isn't enough (even telling him repeatedly ). He needs a visual reminder--a text on the way home, a note, something. It still puts the burden on you to remind him, but if you have set things you would like him to do, you only have to write the note/instructions once (I suggest laminating! ). Maybe have a clipboard or a certain place where you can keep such notes/instructions to get a routine established. You are attempting to form a habit, and that takes a lot of time in the beginning. So for now it will be one more thing (ugh!), but it will pay off once the habit is established. And you might have to be very detailed in your explanation--step 1) find ds, step 2) find ds's math book, etc. Just remember to pray as you write so it comes across lovingly, not frustrated! 
My dh will joke that he is my oldest child, and it often feels that way! But it isn't ill-intentioned, he just needs more direction than I really want to give when I am burnt out. Not because he isn't capable, he just doesn't deal with the day-to-day intricacies of life here at home and they do not come easily to mind. Just as I would struggle with his job were I to try to stand in for him because I do not know the daily details, the things so habitual that he does not consciously make an effort to accomplish them.
More for you! And  as you two work things out.
ETA: Not sure what to tell you on discipline, dh is the stricter parent here. For the door and cup issues, natural consequences? He cleans up the mess, he makes the trip back to shut the door. Honestly those things probably aren't a big deal to him, so you might just have to breathe deeply and let him take care of it. A simple, "Is the door closed? (No or I don't know response from dh) Ok, I'll do xyz while you check on it, thanks."
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Aagot
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| Posted: May 08 2013 at 6:22pm | IP Logged
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I hear your frustration! I have some of the same issues here. I like Melinda's suggestions and know that my dh, no matter how much he loves math, cannot be relied on for any help with school.
I make sure that all discipline that needs to be addressed is done before dh comes home (or it will be undermined). Make up a simple system for you to follow that won't be so draining on you. Any messes on his watch are his problem.
Is there a way you can get a nap and the kids have quiet time in the afternoon so things aren't so frustrating? Will dd5 sleep in and let you do math with ds? Can you start with math first? What are you using for math and LA? Maybe they can be simplified?
Sending up a prayer for you.
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SeaStar
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Kathryn-
Got it. I have a very high maintenance son (10 yo) who frequently exhausts me. He is the one who had the test meltdown and hid under the table because he had a new type of score sheet this year. I never know what is coming next with him .
I sometimes turf our science projects to dh on the weekend because, like you, I am worn out after getting through the basic subjects with him. Dh loves science and math, but what I have learned about that is he is going to teach the lesson his own way- even if I write down page numbers and directions. What seems like a key point to me may not seem the same to him. Or dh gets distracted by mowing the lawn or whatever, and while he meant to do the project with ds first thing, the hours in the day go by...
PLus those two boys get wayyy distracted by rabbit trails. A couple of weeks ago the science experiment was XYZ- and I looked out the window and there they were hunting in the gutter dust for meteorite fragments to view under the microscope. ??? But hey- it was still science.
Anyway, math is tough here also, so now I tackle it first thing with ds every day after prayers. Then, no matter how the day goes after, I can think: at least math is behind us!
Maybe you could have your older daughter take the littles outside for a nature walk or do a simple "school" project with them first thing in the morning while you do math with ds. I know that means you are still bearing the brunt of all the school work, but everyone here is always in a much better mood after math is done.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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Erin
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SeaStar wrote:
| Dh loves science and math, but what I have learned about that is he is going to teach the lesson his own way- even if I write down page numbers and directions. What seems like a key point to me may not seem the same to him. |
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This was something I had to learn too, men and women parent differently. My way wasn't necessarily the right way, dh's way is different but just as valid. I came to realise that God gave children a mother and a father for a reason, we balance out, and I had to let go of thinking it should be done the way I thought, because actually dh added so much that wouldn't have ever occurred to me. Sadly I wasn't always gracious about learning this 
Kathryn,
I hear your tiredness,
On a practical note, like you I thought dh could take over maths with our teens, a perfect match as he is an accountant and brilliant at maths. Truth is though, it rarely happened as he is so tired by the time he comes home. I finally had to let go of that idea and purchased an Australian version similar to your Teaching Textbooks, our teens learn online and we've never looked back. Occasionally dh gets excited hand hosts a lesson at night, but the daily reality is hosted by the brilliant online teachers.
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 08 2013 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
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I guess I should give up the thought that he can teach a subject. I know he is tired and he does so much in the evening around the house it's probably not even practical. I just need help. Also, being in the season of baseball, he's usu. gone with DS to baseball 3x a week which leaves me more frustrated b/c the 2 and 5 yr old must have some major spring fever or growth spurts going b/c they've been quite a handful. Hmmm...right along w/ dad being gone.
There are many times I bite my tongue and literally clench my jaw to keep from NOT butting in when he's doing something I would do different. Oh, there's no doubt I like it "my way". Those times I try to let it go. I suppose with the frantic push to finish some subjects and baseball and everything on my plate, it's def. when I get overwhelmed and my desire for more support/empathy etc. doesn't come quick enough.
Tonight, DS was alll upset once he learned DD 5 got the ice cream last night b/c he knew she'd misbehaved so much. Then he even started complaining about it to DH and DH said "Sounds like your mom had already punished her and dealt with it. I'm sure there's times you've received some treat you didn't deserve." So, I suppose I do tend to drag things out maybe more than they should and hold onto that anger and frustration that things didn't go better and want to punish, punish, punish and well, I guess I'm glad he's not like that. So if I can try to look at it that way, I won't feel likes it's so much undermining what I do. I really just don't like being the full-time educator AND disciplinarian. I think together it's just hard esp. when it sounds like so many other dads at least take on more of the discipline role. Ultimately I do wish he'd take a stricter role.  Maybe... 
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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CrunchyMom
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My dh manages to be the fun parent and the strict parent at the same time , but he isn't always strict about the things I wish, like nighttime routines, for instance. Ask me on a different day, and I might actually complain about that , but things are much better here when I let them go.
I do think Melinda's advice about addressing math first thing is good. If that is a source of stress for you, finding a strategy to fix it within the current dynamic is best. I think your energy will be better spent than trying to modify your dh's behavior.
My husband is a firm disciplinarian as I said, but that does not often mean punishment in our home. I often envy my husband's ability to be objective rather than emotional in these times. My own tendency, one I take to confession regularly, is to take the kids misbehavior personally such that I resent their treatment of ME more than I am interested in correcting them for the good of their souls and relationship with God. 
Now dh does lose his temper and raises his voice with the kids from time to time, usually when he's overwhelmed with work, but one thing I've found and am grateful for is that unless there is a very serious infraction, typically, we are not both angry at the same time. I think this is significant so that one of us can offer the encouragement and help them to make ammends without thinking the entire world is against them.
So, I think you are spot on with your resolution to focus on the positive aspects of the unique dynamic between you and your husband.  when I can manage this, our homelife is much more peaceful, if not perrfect, that is for sure!
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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JodieLyn
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One more thought. Dads, being men, simply don't consider planning ahead quite like women do. For instance, if dh is doing bedtime and bedtime is at 9pm, at 9pm dh will start trying to get the kids to go to bed. He doesn't take into account the dragging feet and the drinks of water and the bathroom and and and... LOL Same with leaving to get somewhere. He would leave for Church 10 minutes before time if I wasn't there pushing everyone out the door. He thinks.. go out get in the car and get to Church 5 minutes later.. I think.. 5-10 minutes to get everyone out the door and buckled then 5 minutes drive then another 5 to unload and another 5 to get settled in the pew.
So sometimes the whole vocabulary thing may get in the way. If I think "you get prepared for a 9pm bedtime at 8:30".. he may be thinking you don't do anything until 9pm.. then it's as much a vocabulary issue as anything. An understanding of what is meant.
The nice thing here is that, it's not one way being right and the other wrong. It's simply about communicating better.. if I know that dh doesn't think about bedtime until it's bedtime. Then we adjust.. and call bedtime 8:30 and I don't start bedtime until 8:30 too.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Angie Mc
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Super fast...
Kathryn, ask for what you want and need (write it down too), communicate your feelings. and call it Plan A. .
Don't ask for plan A again. He knows what plan A is for you...it just might not be plan A for him.
Now come up with a Plan B, one that doesn't depend on your dh doing any work at home. None. What would that look like? What can you delegate? Pay others to do? Drop completely? What is ESSENTIAL? Can you get creative? Solve problems in an unusual way? Brainstorm here!
Work on love languages and filling love tanks 
Then see what happens.
Rooting for you!
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Maureen
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Have you read about the four temperaments? Perhaps your husband has a phlegmatic temperament. The Temperament God Gave You by Art and Laraine Bennett gives great insight into how people are different. There is a chapter on the different temperament combinations in marriage which offers insight into the strengths and weaknesses of each combination. There is a chapter on understanding your children's temperaments and even a chapter on motivating yourself and others.
It is a very, eye-opening book! Now I can better see why different family members respond or react in a certain way. In fact, I need to pick up the book again to read the part about motivating your children.
Sending prayers to you for resolutions to these challenges.
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Maureen, mom to 8 treasures
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sunshinyliving
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Last year I was feeling similar to you, rather overwhelmed and frustrated with a (wonderful) husband who simply could not help. So, this year I did something I never thought I would do; I put my younger children in school so that I could actually teach my older children all the wonderful things I want them to learn in high school.
It was hard to admit to myself that at this point in our family's life, with very small living quarters and strange work schedules for husband, I simply could not teach all the children. I knew that if I continued to homeschool under the present circumstances that all my children would suffer educationally.
The youngers went to a small school nearby and thrived. Although they did not receive what I would think of as the ideal Catholic education, all the basics were covered adequately which was more than I was probably able to do at that point! This coming fall, as our living arrangements have changed, I'm looking forward to homeschooling all the children again.
As a "hard core" homeschooler, it was hard to relinquish my desires to homeschool and to realize that I just couldn't do it all. It was hard not to roll my eyes at some of the school's requirements/assignments/curriculum etc (a lot of which I considered arbitrary and useless). But in the end the kids received an adequate academic education and I now have renewed energy and passion to continue their education at home.
I don't think of school as a long-term solution, but it might be something to consider as you're trying to juggle a lot of kids :-)
Best wishes as you discern!
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Diana, wife to Brad, Mom to dd18, dd16, dd13, ds10, dd7, ds5
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sunshinyliving
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Regarding your husband: (just my 1 cent opinion)
Our husbands sound similar. He is the "fun" one, I am the "disciplinarian/make sure everything" gets done one. It is unlikely that our husbands will change much, so it is best to adapt.
1. If he isn't going to discipline, your discipline should not be reliant on him. For example, the cranky 5yo could be sent to sit on the bed for 10min. When the timer goes off her punishment is over. If she whines again, back on the bed for 10 min, perhaps with a small spank. (In my opinion, crankiness does not require a night-long deprivation of fun. Give the punishment and get it over with. A trip to ice-cream with a loving dad may be the best thing for your daughter after such a day. After all, God gives us many blessings that we certainly don't earn or deserve.)
2. If we want our kids in bed at a certain time, we have to do it ourselves. I've learned that getting kids to bed on time is a near impossibility for my husband :-) I plan around it.
3. Don't nag your husband. It frustrates you, hurts your marriage, and doesn't bear any reliable (good) results. If that is the way he is, that is the way he is, and he probably won't change! Be creative and disciplined in coming up with solutions that don't depend on him. He has gifts in other areas!
God bless you as you deal with this!
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Diana, wife to Brad, Mom to dd18, dd16, dd13, ds10, dd7, ds5
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Kathryn
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Thanks Diana! Great examples and sound advice.  I have consisdered putting the kinder girl in the school which is literally 3 houses down but that leaves me with the 2 yr old. I was going to consider PT preK for her but she won't be 3 until end of Sept and plus the added monthly expense is a bit much.
I am reworking DS's schedule for this upcoming year and as of now, I'm not planning to re-enroll him in the PT 2 day a week school so *hopefully* that will allow a wider margin for completely the assignments I think he needs to move ahead without feeling like he takes all.day.long.
I love coming here for all the ideas from you generous ladies. It fills my bucket just when needed. 
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 20 2013 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
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Neat little "Top Ten" list for dads:
Top Ten List for Homeschool Dads
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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CrunchyMom
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That is a great list! It is always good to hear thoughts from homeschool Dads (they simply aren't as inlined to share their experiences that way  ), and given the man's job, he has a unique perspective from being thoroughly immersed in the world of homeschooling, something that is foreign to homeschool dads who aren't spending their free time on forums and reading blogs.
If I might, though, I would caution against letting one man's worthy thoughts discourage you if your own dh doesn't have the same list. Even if he is right and it would be a good thing for our husbands to change or "step up" in some ways, it is hard for people to change and often it takes time and has to be something that comes from within themselves, not without. There have been times when reading such ideas have made me feel justified in my own discontentment, but nursing that seems to just encourage a bout with the "if onlies." I can only control me, and most often, my own actions and attitudes are what more greatly affect my happiness than do those of dh.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: May 21 2013 at 10:51am | IP Logged
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That's another one of my favorite quotes
Quote:
"The greater part of our happiness or misery depends on our disposition, and not our circumstances."
- Martha Washington
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Kathryn
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Joined: April 24 2009
Location: N/A
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Posts: 1520
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| Posted: May 21 2013 at 2:41pm | IP Logged
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While I agree with the quote in general, people are the sum total of their childhood, temperment, physiological chemistry AND circumstances. I think that's what makes it easier (or more difficult) for some people to cope better in stressful times.
Re the list, it's not my intent to give DH the list and expect him to suddenly be "on task" with all 10 items. However, if *WE* have agreed to home-school the children then *WE* have to do this together. If others are able to do be the principal, teacher, assistant AND disciplinarian, then WOW, they've got it together. For me, I absolutely, unequivocally cannot continue on this journey without assistance from DH in the discipline arena. It makes forming any sort of habit impossible and frankly, it's exhausting. Sorry if that sounds so harsh.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: When DH seems out of sync
