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Barb.b
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 7:41am | IP Logged
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OH - kids sometimes. My 8 yr old has a friend 2 houses down. They come and go and play at both houses. Ds sees if friend can play when friend gets home from school. I make sure ds doesn't go over right when this friend comes home, so as to give friend time to snack, unwind. . . Well, yesterday this friend tells ds that they need to make a deal that ds can play with friend 3 days a week only "to give me a break from you" for 4 days. . . UH? Then friend says "my mom thinks its weird that you come ring the door bell every day". Well, I know this is coming from an 8 year old - maybe his mom didn't say that but. . . I am so tired of rude kids. I know my kids aren't perfect but really. I told ds that it is up to his friend to simply say he doesn't or can't play - that ds won't keep track if he's already played the 3 days allowed him. I advised ds to tell this friend that the friend was rude and made ds feel sad. How else are kids to know that a statement is rude and simply the wrong way to say something.
I just don't get it. To me that is the strangest "arrangement" that I heard of an 8 year old coming up with.. . . My oldest is 19 - never had these weird friend problems. . .
How would you all handle it. . . I just don't want to say "ok we will keep track so friend can have a break from you!". What a terrible thing for a kid to feel - that his friend needs a break from him? I really don't want to bring this up to the mom - never know how some moms will react.
Barb
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 8:50am | IP Logged
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Oh, I can relate. My DS 11 will go to friend's house across the street and ring bell and if they don't answer he'll come home and call them! When I found out I just said "uhh...they're either not home or busy" and then in a laughingly way I said "that's like stalking him". I said this after he even phoned ANOTHER friend to see if he was at his house and then rode his bike to see if his bike was there!
Now, my DS is a little older so he probably does understand more than an 8 yr old in terms of these social aspects, mainly I guess b/c we've been working on them a few years. There are MANY times his friend across street doesn't want to play and DS doesn't understand. I just tell him that he might want to spend time with his mom after being gone all day or has homework or is tired or really, just doesn't want to play for whatever reason.
Soo, it's prob. just the personality between your boy and this one. ? Honestly, I would be pretty peeved about the statement too. Friend across street has said "my mom says you call too much" but I don't find that quite as offensive. I actually agreed but again, he didn't say "you're weird". Hmmmm...may be his mom did say that? I bet she certainly didn't expect him to repeat it! I'm just not sure any clarificaton can come from the 8 yr olds having a conversation. Are you and the mom friendly at all? Is there ever a time you and she are chatting as the kids play so it could be brought up in a non-threatening casual way? I can't even think of what I would say so not much help but just some food for thought.
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 9:19am | IP Logged
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I guess I come from a childhood where the kids in the neighborhood just all played together. You went to someone's house to see if they could play and if they didn't want to they would just say no. So is it a new social no-no for a kid to go see if a neighbor can play? I mean - is there a "miss manners" book of kid etiquette? I don't get it - to me ringing once a day to see if a buddy can play isn't stalking or against any social etiquette that I know of.
I just told ds - he can go see if the kid can play and if this comes up again to tell the kid he (ds)won't keep track of how often they play - that if ds asks and the kid doesn't want to play - the kid should just say he can't or doesn't want to play today because anything like what this kid suggested it rather rude.
Really, I think it is the usual thing that frequently kids in public school learn rudeness.
Barb
Barb
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 9:29am | IP Logged
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Oh, I agree about all the kids playing together. I only told my son it was stalking after the going to home, phoning, phoning another friend and riding bike over to other friend's house. Again, I said it jokingly just so he would know that sometimes they're doing other things. I didn't want to flat out say, they don't want to play with you which could be the truth. Really some of these boys just sit and play video games in their house and if it's a nice day I make them play outside. Well, these boys don't always want to do that so they're not intentionally leaving our my DS per se but they don't want to play outside and their moms don't make them.
I wouldn't keep track either. It's hard to say what's really going on. Yes, it was rude but is there something going on between them you don't know about? If your boy is alwasy going over there, do they always end up playing in his house more than yours? Does your boy not clean up and he's left to clean up after? Is one child more "dominant" over the other so they just simply don't play well together? What did your boy say in response? Really, I understand the momma defense and no, it's not abnormal to ring the bell once a day to see if a friend can play. However, because something HAS been said, I think more probing to find out where this is coming from is worthwhile. Honestly, he prob. didn't come up with this himself which is why I suggested that the mom prob. did say something to him and he regurgitated it in his 8 yr old words so something is going on that prevents them from WANTING him to come to their door every day. It may or may not have anything in particular to do with your son. It could be their own family issues. Ex: Their are twin girls across the street 2 years younger than my DD. They are really sweet, I love them, we're friendly with parents but when my DD was in our parish school, they were at our door every.day and we couldn't get anything finished...homework, chores, chatting together etc. I did mention this to my daughter and when they would come she would just say "no I can't play now." (exactly like what you're mentioning). BUT, these are girls. 8 year old boys aren't as concerned about feelings and saying the right thing. Frankly, boys grow up into men that don't always say the right thing or think of other's feelings. 
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 10:12am | IP Logged
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Yea - I get what you are saying. What gets me is when did just playing with neighbors become such a political type thing? Kind of a weird thing that has popped up in our society lately. And I know what you mean about maybe something else going on - but I can't figure what. They spend just as much time at my house, and clean up - I am not sure what happens over there - here they don't make much mess and if they do I tell all to clean up (usually it is telling them all to come down and put the WII remotes away before they go up to ds room). It doesn't appear to me that one boy is dominant over the other. The only thing I can think of is this kid gets jealous when ds includes the friends younger 5 year old sister in the play. But I got the impression that this is the mom's desire too - to have her included. She is also frequently here playing with them as well. Maybe it is a jealousy thing. There is quit a bit of sibling rivalry going on there and maybe mom isn't aware (how I am not sure!). When they are here I make sure all take turns figuring out what to do cause it is the younger sister who seems to get her way. . . .
Anyway. . . right now I may keep it between the boys and ignore the 3 day thing. I may have them play here today so I can keep and ear out. And if I hear something of the same comment from the friend I can go up and try to ask him questions to try to get to what is bothering the friend - you know - be nice, try to probe a bit and do some active listening to figure out what he really may be saying. . . .I must say I don't think that goes on at his house. If I or my dd go over to get our ds - it sometimes takes them 5 minutes to find the boys (something I find concerning)!
Barb
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SeaStar
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 11:52am | IP Logged
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I have a similar situation with my neighbor..... but in this case the rules are coming from his mother. it is a hard situation.
I do agree- when did playing with a neighbor become a scheduled/PC thing? When I was a kid everyone just went outside and played together. It is so sad for our children 
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mamalove
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 1:35pm | IP Logged
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if you dont have a relationship where you can speak to the mamas about something like this, then maybe you should rethink letting your children play with their children....Maybe there are other things that are going on that would not please our Lord.
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Willa
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
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I wouldn't stick too carefully to the "three days a week rule" but I'd also encourage my son to respect the other child's apparent need for space and also respect his own sense of self by not going often to a place where he isn't always (apparently) welcome. For me that would probably mean limiting going over to the other house to less than three days a week at least for a while. But that's just me.
Kids! there are all kinds of 8 year olds and maybe your boy's friend is just a bit immature -- plus I can remember being a young introvert and wanting some personal time alone after school -- school was overwhelming.
Even though I loved my friends, I sometimes made excuses not to come out and play, because I so desperately craved the solitary time. It wasn't about them, just about me. Maybe something like that is going on.
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Claire F
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Perhaps the other mother has a harder time sharing her space with other kids. Maybe it's tiring for her to have another child at her house a lot. Some people are great with the kids coming and going between houses. Other people feel the need for more structure.
Whatever the underlying reasons in your case, I wish the situation had been handled better. If the friend doesn't want to play everyday, they should just be able to say no thanks. And if the mom has issue with it, she should have come to you and explained. It would be easy enough to simply say, "My son needs some downtime during the week, so would you mind if your son doesn't ask to play everyday? He always wants to say yes, but I'd like him to have some downtime at home. Thanks!"
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Claire F
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And speaking of kids roaming the neighborhood and playing with friends - does anyone remember the term "playdate" from their childhood? I never had "playdates" - I simply got together with my friends outside and played. And I did arrange to have friends come over at other times, especially kids who didn't live nearby, which I guess could be considered a playdate. But I don't remember anyone calling it a "playdate". 
Just one of those things that strikes me now as a parent.
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HSMama
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 5:44pm | IP Logged
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Since the boy is away at school all day it may be an issue of his mom would like to spend some afternoons with her son. She may be annoyed when every day your son rings the doorbell and her son would rather play than hang out at home with her. I'm just thinking that if my kids were away at school ALL DAY I would most definitely require them to be home a few days a week. She probably didn't mean to be rude. Maybe she was just annoyed and said something she shouldn't have. Maybe you can just limit your son from ringing his doorbell EVERY day. Does he really need to be over there every day? We don't live in a neighborhood and I do like the fact that my kids have to call before going over to a friends house and they usually need a ride. I just hate unexpected visitors. Even when I grew up in a neighborhood I liked my space and half the time if the doorbell rang I wouldn't answer it because I was a bit of an introvert and liked having some afternoons to myself to hang out- read, crafts, etc. I just always felt pressured to play if I answered the door.
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JodieLyn
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Some people just can't say "no", especially to a child. And so they get overwhelmed by the knock on the door. The child is doing nothing wrong, but it would be kind to restrict the frequency anyway.
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Willa
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| Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
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Claire F wrote:
| And speaking of kids roaming the neighborhood and playing with friends - does anyone remember the term "playdate" from their childhood? |
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I think they started using the term in the mid to late 80's. I am an old enough mom to remember!
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Chris V
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JodieLyn wrote:
| Some people just can't say "no", especially to a child. And so they get overwhelmed by the knock on the door. The child is doing nothing wrong, but it would be kind to restrict the frequency anyway. |
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I agree. Some people can't say no to a child that comes to the door.
We had a neighbor girl this summer (she was staying with her grandparents for the summer, and the grandparents live next door to us), she would pop over to our house quite frequently unannounced. It would irritate me. ... but I have to be honest, it wasn't so much the fact that she came over so frequently that irritated me, it was *her* that I found irritating (I know, I'm horrible for saying so ... but it's true, I was not fond of this little girl and my girls adored her ... um, awkward  ) .
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Nov 21 2011 at 10:09am | IP Logged
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Update - I am starting to see that the trouble is the friend and his younger sister are in the midst of major sibling rivalry. Seems to me friend resents and begins to make fun of and limit play time with anyone who is nice to his 5 year old sister. Yesterday ds put up his little christmas tree in his room, he saw an ornament that is more preschool age and asked if he could give it to his friends younger sister - when he did friend said : "so your mom WANTS my sister to like you". The rest of the day he was rude to ds - making fun of his homeschooling, church. . .
I have been talking to ds about this - so ds at least gets what is causing friends behavior. I also am insisting that they take turns at each others houses - being very strict about this so I have more opportunity to listen in . . .
Barb
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SusanMc
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In reading this thread two things come to mind:
1. Perhaps the playmate culture norm has had the effect of parents and kids not learning how to say "no thanks" to instant play invitations in a firm but gracious way. Oddly, for some it seems easier to make rules or just eliminate a playmate rather than navigate these waters. Something similar happened to my stepdaughter in our neighborhood.
2. When I was a kid, my mom DID have a rule that I could only go over to a certain friend's house every other day. I was a latchkey kid and my friends were often from SAHM families so she saw them as doing a favor for me by providing a social outlet that she couldn't.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: play mate troubles
