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CelesteMary
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Hello all.
Facing a quandry my husband and I have been dealing with since we were married.
My husband's family are a group of heavy drinkers. At every holiday party, my husband has always overindulged staying up til dawn with his brothers, sisters, uncles and parents usually leaving me alone.
Needless to say, this is a very sore topic in our home, a hot button topic, if you will.
I am a daughter of an alcoholic father and know the damage it can cause children so I have always taught that over indulgence is a sin. Because the behavior and discussions which follow are always inappropriate.
When we only had babies, I started to foresee this being an issue. Mom says it's a sin, dad overindulges, behaves badly, uses profane language all the while communicating to the children that being drunk is fun....just like the world.
By the way, the children at said events are allowed to run wild right along with the adults until they get so exhausted they fall asleep where ever they may and may stay up with the inappropriate behavior and language all night if they can manage it.
Well, most recently, against my better judgment I was talked into going to one of these events. I went home with my husband's parents to put myself and the littles to bed. (We have eight children all together, and at the time of the event a 6 week old babe.)
Needless to say I had an inkling that this was going to be a point of crossroads for our family.
Anyway, my husband stayed at the party and had the four oldest camp out at the party in the yard. The next day, I found out that my husband allowed our oldest daughter to stay up until 5am right along with the adults who had been drinking all night.
I felt like I had lost the tug of war that has been going on between us for the last 12 years. I was so angry I could not speak to my husband for three days and when I did, I just exploded.
When we got home, I immediately made an appointment with our parish priest and he suggested counseling on such topics as explosive as this one is for us.
My husband went along and agrees to catholic marriage counseling, but he told me that he sees nothing wrong with what he did.
He thinks I am a mother hen because I wanted to homeschool our children, end even though he agreed he has never been on board. He thinks the children should see these things now to get them prepared for the real world
I am so heartbroken. I feel like the man who is supposed to lead and guide us has led us directly into sin. And God help us if the children stumble in this area. I've never been so angry and disillusioned in my entire life.
I feel as though all the good I try to put into them has somehow been spoiled and their innocence is no longer there.
My oldest is eleven years old. How confused she must be having mom teach one thing and dad do another.
Now, just in my inbox, I receive an email from yet another brother who has an annual family party....here we go again. I have never been to this party. I adore his wife and she doesn't drink.
I have no idea about whether I should stay home and say, no kids can go as he has taken children in the past and lead himself into sin if he wants, but refuse to let the children go. Or should I go and be a quiet witness, not indulging?
I feel if I go I am communicating to my children that it is okay for them to be in such an environment.
It's so sad, because I love his parents. They have done so much for us, but they are heavy drinkers too. How do you love in this situation?
I am soooo sorry for the lenght of this. I just need some advice here. Anyone unequally yoked with their spouse? Any advice would be so much appreciated. God bless and thanks to you all.
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Angie Mc
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God bless you, dear  . Go ahead and cry. It's so hard to want to make all things right for our children, but be unable. It is a hard transition to go from being the mom of littles to being the mom of children who are growing in awareness. Alcohol abuse and all that can be related to it is a heavy cross to carry. I know where you're coming from although my details are different and I'll be vague to protect the privacy of some of my family members.
The first thing to pop into my mind, reading your plea is, find a way to be a good wife to your husband. As the daughter of an alcoholic, you are likely to project a whole boatload of hurts onto your husband that he didn't cause. If your dh, as a grown man, chooses to overindulge in alcohol occasionaly with his family, that seems like a doable scenario. Not perfect, but doable. Not to minimize any sin here, I can argue that I sin more than occasionally...sins of pride, sloth, unkindness, on and on. If he is sober with you and the kids in his own home, provides for you all well, and is a good enough husband/dad, then I encourage you to focus on what he does right. (If not, then you all need local, professional help.)
As a grown woman, you have the right to choose not to attend such gatherings. The ideal, which may be expecting too much of you especially with such a wee babe, would be to join in on the occasions to some extent. Avoid all or nothing thinking and look for a yes. In general, if you could show up for the first hour (before everything gets rolling) then you could smile at everyone, chat a bit, and then politely excuse yourself to go home. You could even be honest and say, "I'm tired, need to put the kids to sleep" or "Drinking just isn't my thing."
As for the kids, its important that they see you and your dh want what is best for them, even if you disagree about what that is. Your dh may sincerely want to include his children in his extended family activities because he sees that as a good thing - and most often that is a good thing. He likes their company and wants them to experience their people, their world. Very manly approach. You, as their mother, want to protect them and nurture them. Very womanly approach. Children need both. An 11yo could understand, "We both want what is best for you, we're just not agreeing on what that is. We love you so much and both want you to grow up to be a happy, healthy, responsible adult. Men and women are complimentary and we each have something special and different to add to you." A reasonable compromise, again, might be for everyone to participate for the first hour or two, then mom and children leave politely. Agree to this plan ahead of time, smile and hug as you leave, and no guilt placed on anyone. Our children need to be helped to honor their parents so as mothers we have to be very careful to not be a near occasion of sin by encouraging any disprespect for their fathers.
I honestly wish that there wasn't this overindulgence in drinking at these gatherings, yet I have also seen good happening in similar scenarios. I would look for signs of good cheer, sharing funny stories, positive engagements, laughing, and other positives that can be associated with social lubricants. I was at a party recently where most the men overindulged a bit and they became hilariously funny and big old softies! It was great to see these men, who are working so hard and facing so much suffering as providers, happy. It was good for my children to see too.
I tend to recommend individual work before or parallel to couples work. Consider finding a counselor or self-help group like AlAnon. Individual work is a way of taking care of yourself during a difficult time. It takes pressure off the marital relationship in that you are finding a way to meet your own needs. Group support has been found to be very helpful when dealing with substance abuse and related issues.
Now you might be surprised by what I have to say next. I'm feeling very hopeful for your family! Sure this is a hard cross for your family to carry but GOD PROVIDES! He has blessed you with beautiful children and He provides perfectly for them. I'm praying for you and am very proud of your efforts .
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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CelesteMary
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Thanks so much Angie. I will reread your post and take heed to your suggestions. God bless you and your family.
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SusanMc
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Angie said most of what I had to say (down to the admission of familiarity with some of these issues on a personal level) but I had a few things to add.
For now, I would set aside the moral issue (how a leader/provider should behave, being unequally yolked, witnessing to heavy drinkers, etc.) and strictly focus on the pragmatic issues that you and your husband can agree on. Your counselor should be very helpful in this aspect. AlAnon or AdultChildrenofAlcoholics can be wonderful resources for you on an individual level.
On a practical level, I too would suggest creating/obtaining a safe space away from these family gatherings that you and the children can go to once the drinking becomes heavier than is comfortable for you. A hotel or another family member's house would be perfect. The heavy drinkers get to have their occaisional carefree fun and the kids are well supervised past the point that drinking adults can no longer safely drive.
I too am hopeful for your family.
Hugs,
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Mom to two dear sons, '07 and '08.
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JodieLyn
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Angie said very much what I was thinking.
I grew up with both social drinking around me, and alcoholism. I may have been carted off to bed before the heavy drinking but what I remember was lots of laughter and adults being more relaxed and silly than at any other time. And running wild with the other kids wasn't wild as in, get away with anything, but just a fun time running around.
The alcoholism didn't manifest in my life as something hurtful except in how it removed my biological father from us. I chose to be sad on all that HE lost to alcohol. But he wasn't abusive etc. so I have a different perspective than many who deal with abusive alcoholics.
And leaving early is a totally reasonable thing.
You might consider planning a teen thing as your children get older and you don't want them just hanging out.. like inviting (and transporting them) to your house for a late night movie fest instead. Then instead of being a spoilsport, you can be the fun aunt doing special things for the kids 
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G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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CelesteMary
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Thanks Susan. I wanted to add another tidbit. I have always been an occasional drinker. Wine here or there, when I was younger it was more. But always able to take it or leave it.
Since the expamples at these parties, I have decided to give it up totally. I think Alanon is a good place for me to start. Thanks again ladies and blessings to you.
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JodieLyn
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CelesteMary wrote:
Since the expamples at these parties, I have decided to give it up totally. I think Alanon is a good place for me to start. Thanks again ladies and blessings to you. |
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You'll want to be very careful here. How would you feel about a person who was invited to your house for a big mexican feast and they would obviously turn up their nose at the high fat in the fried tortillas or the beef or pork fillings etc. And as an example would only eat the healthiest things offered with an air of a martyr. You'd be rather upset at them spoiling the good time everyone else was having.
Now I'm not saying you should drink alcohol. But take if necessary another festive drink for you to enjoy if there's nothing there that you really like (pineapple juice and sprite 50/50 with a splash of grenadine is festive) and enjoy it and don't look down your nose at the alcoholic drinks.. keep it LIGHT. If you're the heavy no one will want to be around you.. and instead of a healthy example of no drinking, you'll only be showing the kids that those drinking are having fun and mom being good and not drinking is NOT.
Your example needs to be... we can have fun and NOT drink. Then others are more likely to join you and your example will help others choose not to drink..
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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CelesteMary
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True Jodie. I know there is balance in all things. I don't necessarily want to be the opposite example. Then there is no middle ground. Thanks for that point of view.
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CelesteMary
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Ladies, thanks to you all for your replies. This has been on my heart for so long and you have all given me objective, practical advice that I can ponder.
My husband really does so much good, it would be a shame for me to allow this to come between us.
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Servant2theKing
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Ladies, I love you all like dear sisters! I hope what I am about to say does not offend any of you. I posted originally, then removed the post and sent Celeste a pm instead, mainly because I didn't/don't want to hurt or offend anyone.
My concern in reading the responses here is that we may be missing a golden opportunity to teach our children that drinking alcohol (as well as smoking or doing drugs) are not "fun", even though they might appear that way on the surface. To those whose families have been deeply scarred or wounded by alcoholism the answer isn't quite as simple as still go to the parties and just join in the fun!
Too many families "normalize" unhealthy behavior in the name of "going along to get along". Please consider that we have the blessed opportunity to be part of the solution to so many ills in todays's society by raising families where alcohol/drugs/smoking or addictions of any kind aren't seen as just a "normal" part of life. Isn't it so much better to "just say no", than to smile, pat everyone on the back and pretend that a few drinks aren't going to hurt anyone?
I've witnessed three generations of my own family being deeply impacted by alcoholism and other addictions. Such a devastating "legacy" can be stopped, but we have to be brave enough to make choices that may not be popular ~ in the long run the effects of such choices can be so much better for all those we love.
Of course, we must treat family members with love and respect, never acting judgmentally toward them. That doesn't mean we have to partake of something unhealthy in order to prove our love for them.
This past weekend we spent many hours dealing with the painful subject of addictions firsthand. The loved ones we helped walk through very tender ground didn't regard our loving, open arms as looking down our noses at them; though they may have felt that way in the past, while they were still wearing blinders, not yet ready to leave their sin behind. Theirs will be a very long, slow journey ~ recovery takes a long time, especially when the road to addiction has been a lengthy one.
I recently listened to a young woman describe how she had been raped at age 14 by someone who was drunk; was later molested by a family "friend" while he was at her home "getting drunk with her dad"; and later went on to have two abortions as a result of her own poor s*xual choices, due to the earlier abuse she had suffered. Addiction now helps her numb all her pain. Friendly family drinking parties can lead to so much more harm than good. Often families aren't even aware of the grave harm taking place while adults are having a few drinks or just having a little fun.
Alcohol use or abuse, any forms of addiction, are very delicate subjects. Most of us would like to steer clear; not even acknowledge their existence. However, if we try to ignore them and let them gain admittance into our families, we will not be able to ignore them for long ~ they rear their ugly head and wreak untold havoc. We choose to abstain with the fervent prayer that future generations of our family might be spared some of the anguish and heartache we've witnessed and experienced.
Certainly, many of you who responded probably come from families where addiction isn't an issue. Thanks be to God and I pray it will always be so for you and all those you hold dear. Not every family is quite as blessed. We may all do well to remember when planning parties, weddings, family gatherings, church socials, that we could be giving others a precious gift by simply serving lemonade and iced tea ~ laughter can still abound without another round.
I promised myself I will push post this time ~ for the sake of all the wounded souls out there who have lived with the consequences of innocent parties or fellas just letting loose after a hard day at work. If I have offended anyone, I am deeply sorry, but if I have protected even one soul by writing this then I am eternally thankful.
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All for Christ, our Saviour and King, servant
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JodieLyn
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I can understand where you're coming from Servant.. I think all the posts were based on what Angie says here
Angie Mc wrote:
If he is sober with you and the kids in his own home, provides for you all well, and is a good enough husband/dad, then I encourage you to focus on what he does right. (If not, then you all need local, professional help.)
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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KauaiCatholic
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Servant, I'm grateful you hit "post."
Celeste Mary, I am praying for you.
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 Viviane
Grateful mama of Jonah Augustine ('01), Sophia Marie ('05) and Luke Dominic ('10)
We can do no great things; only small things with great love. -- Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
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CelesteMary
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I have tears in my eyes as I read Servant's post. These are exactly the "ugly" things I know can result from letting loose, guards are down and parents aren't paying attention to their little ones as they may under regular circumstances.
I have this very strong sense that adults should be kept seperate after a certain hour, and the children should be among themselves for that exact reason.
The lines get fuzzy when too much alcohol is involved.
Also, I can't help but think that I could lead my children to stumble in this area. Why give the enemy any more ammunition than he already has?
At the end of my journey, I want to be able to tell God that I didn't compromise. It would be much easier to join the pack, but we enter into heaven through the narrow gate.
I try not to judge anyone, I try even harder never to offend anyone, but sometimes God calls us to take a stand.
I don't really know what God is trying to show me through all of this because it would be much easier on me if I just compromised and didn't say anything.
Believe me, I am not the type to sit and sulk, but I need to know when the hard issues arise and doing what is right is at stake, I can do so in a loving fashion.
I appreciate this conversation so much because it is making me think about what really matters in the end. If I can say I did all that the Holy Spirit told me to do, honestly and did my best to communicate truth in l ove, I hope that will be enough.
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Servant2theKing
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Praying for you in a very special way Celeste. May the Holy Spirit guide and enlighten you, and all parents.
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JodieLyn
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Yes ugly things can happen. Creating a rift between husband and wife won't help. In the end it could mean the wife being excluded and dad giving children permission to do things without mom even being there.
"Going along" and being good company gives you many opportunities to be there helping keep an eye on things rather than being at home while dad took the children with him. At the extreme you could even be looking at the children becoming the battle ground with the more permissive parent being even more permissive to make up for the other parent being seen as too strict.
A compromise, can help everyone, especially the children.
Even Jesus had dinner with the sinners.. how can you make a difference if you have no relationship with them.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Angie Mc
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Servant, we love you too and I don't want to minimize your loving concern and experience as a mom (God bless your son.) CelesteMary, it's all so hard sometimes. I'm going to guess that many who are reading/replying here have been deeply scarred by alcohol abuse, including me. And, God willing with His grace, learning through the pain is such a path to humility, dependence on God, redemption, and eventually JOY!
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I wonder if we need to be more specific about what constitutes a family drinking party. I would say that it is one that the sole purpose and only activity is drinking and most get drunk. This is different from a family party where kids are playing, good food is being served, members are telling stories, or swimming, or playing horseshoes, and beer is served. And it is really different from criminal behavior. (I'm so, so sorry to know of the crimes against your loved one. Absolutely heart-breaking and infuriating. I will pray for her complete recovery.) My dh works with SMI (seriously mentally ill) s*xual offenders and is super cautious and hyper alert to signs of perpetrator behavior. These guys surely exist. Yet our family doesn't want to live as if they outnumber us, lurk around every corner, or that every man is a potential criminal. Being street smart, knowing self defense, and accepting that crime can happen to us, is a whole other topic (another one that our family discusses and acts upon often.) With extended family, the dynamics are tricky because of our proximity and relationships. I think it is important, under most circumstances, to find a way to join in the fun. Unless a get-together is a frat party or has criminal potential, there should be some way to be smart, strong, and bless others, even if only for a little while.
Servant, I read your original reply on my phone and found it to be very well informed and generous and was a bit sad to see it not still on the public thread (but of course respect your decision to send it as a PM.) An important point you make is similar to a conclusion of mine. It's super important that our children have many experiences in non drinking social situations. Out of our closest family friends, we have several families who choose not to serve any alcohol in their homes. Our family also didn't serve alcohol for many years. Now we serve or don't serve alcohol as is fitting. We always serve lemonade  .
Our golden opportunity to teach our children about the risk of alcohol abuse and alcoholism has been an ongoing one since their earliest days. Because of generational/genetic risks...my dh's work in/with substance abuse programs...our interaction with others via sports....having teens...and, and, and...we have ongoing and very open discussions/rules about the whole matter. We combine this with as many positive role models and experiences as we can muster!
One role model my children have is a dear friend who is a recovering alcoholic and jokes, "I don't drink now because I drank more than my share in my 20s." Abstinence is definitely an option and necessary for some. The tricky part is that an alcoholic drink or two doesn't hurt most adults throughout time and culture. Within the year, a giant study showed that moderate drinkers live longer than heavy drinkers and those who abstain. Jesus changed water to wine. Objectively, alcohol can contribute to a relaxed state that can definitely contribute to increased fun and happy relationships. These are true facts that we share with our children. And what the Church teaches:
From the Catechism:
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| "The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air" (CCC 2290). |
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Our family tries not to normalize wrong behavior...and there are so many - alcohol abuse, immodest dress, cussing, over-eating, losing ones temper, rude manners, on and on. We also try not to be too reactive, sensitive, or disproportionate. This is a weird example, but we go to a lot of baseball games and out of 40,000 people there are going to be a few who drink too much. They tend to sit by us . Recently 2 guys were in from Montana sitting behind us and were pretty loose mid game but they simply got funny and generous (offer to help us, etc.) We made sure they weren't driving (they were walking to their hotel) and we wished them well. We talked with our kids about it (how they should have drank less, etc.) and that was that. But, we've also been around guys (and women - yuck) who have become drunk and nasty. Nasty, bullying, behavior (drunk or not) isn't acceptable and these fans get dragged out of their seats by security. Yep, another discussion with older kids.
The main thing I hope that is coming across from my 2 (way too lengthy - sorry) posts is HOPE! Be not afraid! And let's be gentle and patient with ourselves as we sort all of this difficult and sensitive stuff out over time. I'm praying for all of us who have a tender heart regarding these matters.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Servant2theKing
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Angie, your additional input on this subject is insightful and well-balanced. I responded to Celeste's original post based on certain red flags; drinking until dawn, children being present during all night drinking while being exposed to inappropriate behavior, etc. My later post was mainly directed at those issues.
I should have placed the words "friendly family drinking parties" in quotes, to indicate that I wasn't equating a family gathering where alcohol happens to be served with get-togethers where alcohol and/or getting drunk tend to be the main focus or central activity. Many families can safely enjoy alcohol with no harmful effects; ours doesn't happen to be one of those, since too many family members struggle with alcoholism and other issues that make even casual drinking imprudent.
I'm adding my original post below; removed simply because I feared offending anyone with what might appear to be an opposing view on this delicate subject (I think I may have ended up doing so anyway with my later post; please forgive me if my words have upset or offended anyone).
"I'm so very sorry you are facing such difficult issues. Please know you will remain in my continual prayers. St. Matthew Talbot and St. Monica are good patron saints for alcohol related problems. Our Lady Undoer of Knots and St. Joseph are known to be powerful intercessors for marriages.
We've faced similar issues, with different dynamics. You may receive varying feedback, so I'll simply share issues and solutions we've faced within our own family. There is alcoholism on both sides of my family; my grandfather; numerous cousins, uncles, nephews; as well as our oldest dear son. Thankfully dh was brought up in a family with only occasional social drinking. Dh did overdo occasionally early in our married life and I made the grave mistake of thinking social drinking was acceptable.
Things finally came to an impasse when we discovered that our oldest had been sneaking alcohol at age 14. We dumped whatever alcohol was in the house; gifts from drinking family members that were used on rare occasions, therefore not easily missed. That was 19 years ago.
Since then, dh and I have made a firm commitment to be alcohol-free in our household, particularly as an example for our dc. We eventually arrived at a point where we made the family decision to steer clear of alcohol related gatherings or events, including parish festivals. Why do so many parishes think they need to include alcohol at so-called family-friendly events ~ it makes it very challenging for those families who struggle with this painful issue? (Sorry for adding that, but it has bothered us for quite some time)
The circumstances you shared are definitely worthy of concern and prayerful consideration, especially for the sake of your family life and your childrens' future. Our oldest ds still struggles with alcohol issues, in spite of our efforts to set a better example than we did early in his life.
You'll find lots of debate and widely varying opinions over whether alcoholism is inherited, or whether it's an issue of family environment and influence. All debate flies out the window when you're dealing firsthand with the devastating consequences of alcoholism. The origin of the problem doesn't matter nearly as much as making choices within your family and household which help give your children the best possible chances of avoiding the devastating and complicated effects of alcoholism, which you know only too well from your own childhood and from the events you described in your post.
It's a blessing that your dh will go to Catholic counseling with you. That's a giant step in the right direction. Until you go for counseling together it might be more fruitful to pray for your dh and simply remain silent about events that have already occurred. A person who is still entrenched in a way of life and sees nothing wrong with staying up all hours of the day and night drinking, while exposing young children to such activity, cannot and will not be able to acknowledge or comprehend the types of concerns you shared here. Far better to pray for them, than try to debate with them.
It might be a good idea to find an alternative activity for yourself and your dc the day of the annual family party. It's so difficult when you and your spouse are not on the same page (which we experienced much more in the past). Can you simply suggest that dh go alone to the family party, if he feels strongly about going, then make special plans of your own with your dc, so they don't feel like they are missing out on something special or being deprived?
Sometimes we need to love from afar, especially when those nearest and dearest to us are involved in things that are unhealthy for our families. We've had to excuse ourselves from gatherings at ds's home and various family functions. Such decisions can be very painful from both sides. Sometimes love must be strong enough and tough enough to say no ~ even when our hearts are breaking at the same time. There are ways to lovingly decline, while still remaining steadfast in whatever you and dh eventually discern to be best for your own family. One solution we've arrived at is hosting alcohol-free gatherings at our home, gently letting family members and friends know that we don't want alcohol brought into our home. This has been our way of life for so long that it's no longer such a difficult issue to overcome. It can be a long process to get to that point, but a worthwhile one.
Praying for your family, your marriage, your dh and all extended family, as well as your own heart, mind and soul in whatever lies ahead."
ETA: One thing that has helped our family through some pretty difficult times was rededicating our family and our home to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Posting a prayer to that effect on our refrigerator gave me constant hope, courage and strength during some very painful periods. We do not live in fear, but we are fully aware of the need to be sober and vigilant in safeguarding and educating our dc regarding the types of behavior and choices they will encounter as they go out into the world.
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All for Christ, our Saviour and King, servant
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Aug 04 2011 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
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In all my years as a 4Real member, this is one of my most-cherished threads.
All of you are so kind, generous, loving, open and concerned! I think anyone reading through this thread would understand CelesteMary's concerns and worries and appreciate all the caring and kind responses she has received here. I can't think of any place else in cyberspace where I've experienced such love and generosity, truly. I believe I've learned a great deal from this thread (so far), and I hope others feel the same way.
My husband is in the Navy (read: "sailor") and as you might guess, there are things about Navy life that we have had to explain to our children early on. (Especially since my husband is in command for the second time, which means that every single sad/awful/worrisome/silly thing any sailor does lands on his desk. And my dining room table.) Sometimes this means that we have had to confront subjects way earlier than we wanted to. (Last week, we had a sailor head out on a quest to kill his almost-ex and himself, but, thanks be to God, a caring friend turned him in and disaster was averted. How do you explain this to a 13-year-old?  )
Bad things happen. People make wrong choices (Eve, Adam, et. al.). Parents do need to do what's best for their families...together, discussed in a loving and caring way. I think the example of parents working together to do what's best for their children is the best possible course of action. It might mean, as in Servant's case, some type of distancing from certain events, or it might mean "divide and conquer" with the littles going home with Mom. It could mean that Mom and Dad agree to stay for a certain period of time, with a designated driver agreement (now that's modeling responsible behavior!!).
CelesteMary, I love your openness to various counseling and self-help options, and I think you will benefit greatly from whichever option you choose. We all come to this discussion from very different places (in my case, with some alcoholism in the family, but with a European approach to drinking alcohol predominating...my grandfather made his own - bad - beer in his back yard...alcohol was not mysterious...some family members definitely need help...we're a mixed bag at best!). I think it's so helpful to look at different experiences and perspectives, because we 1) realize we're not alone - someone else has been in our shoes and lived to tell the tale and 2) aren't wrong for accepting/rejecting/creating a policy of moderation regarding use of alcohol. What works in my family might not work for yours.
I am praying for everyone reading and responding to this thread...oh, how we all need prayer to love and accept ourselves! May Our Lady, St. Joseph, St. Anne and St. Joachim pray for us as we strive to be the best possible parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, godparents and sponsors we can be.
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Pilgrim
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| Posted: Aug 04 2011 at 11:26pm | IP Logged
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It has been so wonderful to see such a difficult subject discussed with such openness, truth, and peace. There are a few portions of this thread that stick out to me, the children, and the marriage.
The advice for how to treat your husband, and how to handle the subject has been so good. I would focus on the *things that are happening* when the drinking gets out of hand, when talking to him. He cares for your family too, and if you can prayerfully seek out a way to agree on not having the kids around when the drinking gets into full swing, even if you all go to the event (i.e. he can stay, but you and kiddos go home or someploace fun), that may be where you can come to a common agreement on what's best for the kids. I think the big issue as far as the kids goes is the profanity/bad behavior that starts happening, and their safety.
I personally would not leave any of the kids if/when you leave. Dh no matter how much he cares will be distracted and unable to be vigilant about what's going on with the kids. In our world today there is so much perversion of what is good and holy, it is actually quite often in these very kinds of gatherings that innocent dear children are exposed to things that will take away their innocence forever. It doesn't take hardened criminals, it is often family/friends. I know this *first hand*, it was often at such gatherings that I was exposed to things that stole my innocnce forever, I would not want to sit back and say nothing and have other sweet young children experience the same. I do not at all intend to say that this *will for certain happen* if people take their children to family gatherings where there's alcohol. No, not at all. But, think of what kind of talk/behavior you may have heard from other kids/adults when you were a kid, I can guarantee it's only gotten worse, and as we all sadly know most of our family/acquaintances don't raise their children and watch what they hear, learn, etc..
The advice to be positive and fun with the kids to show them how to have fun without alcohol is *very* good advice. They will learn by that example that you can enjoy other refreshments and fun activities. I would plan something fun with them, treats, games, movies, something they really enjoy. Even discover something new to enjoy, telling stories of fun things you did as a kid, a new craft, etc.
Unless you are going to avoid these family members all together, a good way to get around the heavy drinking parties is to be sure to set up other times to visit them, even if there are hurt feelings over not being part of a certain event, often family members will appreciate at least seeing you other times. We often do this.
Celeste, you are so pleasing to God in all you are desiring and trying to do. We will all be praying for you and pulling with you as you walk this difficult road.
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CelesteMary
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| Posted: Aug 05 2011 at 8:57pm | IP Logged
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Hello ladies. I have been out all day and just caught up to the beautiful and helpful words that have been written about this subject.
You know, bringing such an issue to light is such a good thing for all of us.
I will say a hearty "God Bless" to you all from the bottom of my heart for your encouraging words and advice. I am so blessed to have found this website and even though I am a newbie, I already feel a certain closeness as I read through our different struggles together.
I was always a shy-type, it used to be kind of hard for me to open up, but with this group of ladies, I know I am in good hands.
I spoke to my dh last night after much pondering and we have agreed to compromise on this situation.
Mostly visit the family at times other than large family parties and in special situations go and have a plan to leave at a designated time.
There is never any sure fired way to protect our children from everything, but if our hearts are right and we are trying our best, I believe God will take care of the rest.
Maybe we could all agree on a specific date to add to the prayer concern list during Mass, those who are substance abusers or organize a novena? Fight fire with fire?
I am a fairly recent convert to the faith, so please forgive me if we can't do this, but wouldn't it be a powerful prayer to our Lord if we could arrange something like that? Any ideas?
I will be going out of town and will be back August 12th. I would love to be involved. Maybe we could do it on the main post on this board or privately?
I will try to check this board while I am away.
Anyway, thanks to you all again. Thanks so much.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Moral issue?
