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jillian
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 3:06pm | IP Logged
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So dd is being what everyone calls a typical 2 1/2 year old. She is for the most part a major angel at home (she really is). She has a few off limit places and doesn't do any of the typical 2 1/2 behaviors...tantrums/hitting/biting/etc.
The biggest issues at home are listening to things like when it's time to clean up toys, to get ready for bath (she picks out pjs and gets out her diaper), or when it's time to calm down/quiet down and let herself rest (usually just at bedtime).
The issues come when we go out. Mainly Mass. She doesn't like to be quiet (I can deal with the fidgety behavior it is difficult for almost all 2 1/2 year olds to be still for an hour). She routinely tries to touch other people (either in front of or behind us), yells/screams (not tantrums just talking loudly), etc.
I think most of these issues come from the fact that she doesn't want to miss anything. She is VERY verbal, can more or less express when she is upset/scared/hurt/overwhelmed/etc.
I do not know how to discipline her. We have tried redirection (for tantrums for wanting something). We have tried swatting her butt (not hard at all. We have tried removal of the object (warning her if she doesn't want to clean up her toys she won't get them back for the day if it's early or the next day if it's in the evening). I have tried giving her the logical consequences (a la Love and Logic).
We prefer to not spank or use corporal punishment but I just don't know how to effectively discipline her. I know I can't expect constant obedience from her (she 2 1/2) and I need to expect some meltdowns/tantrums (she only does these when hungry, over tired or over stimulated).
HELP! She's our first and only
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 4:07pm | IP Logged
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I'm a bit confused. Are you looking for things specifically for during Mass? or for at home? or all the time?
If she's trying to see what's going on at Mass.. it's actually beneficial to sit right up front.. yes you may have to walk past more people to take her out but you'll have to do it much less often.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 4:21pm | IP Logged
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Just as "typical 2 1/2 behavior" seems like the child is very frustrated, it can also be very frustrating for mom and dad to be around a child who acts like a typical 2 1/2 year old. That's when you are most likely to resort to a gentle swat on the butt, even when you are not, and do not want to be, a spanker. I know that feeling well. 
As for coping in church: Will you daughter look at a *busy book/quiet book* during Mass? Or draw (in her own style) with a crayon (on paper)? My oldest dd was also very verbal, very loud, and very insistent, especially during Mass. If I just quietly put my finger to my lips to signal, "Shhh", she would say very loudly and clearly, "Why do you want me to be quiet?" There were times when I just had to carry her out of there, even at the risk of "rewarding" her behavior by letting her leave the church. That's when she would yell out, as I carried her down the aisle, "You are so mean to me!". So, I really do understand. Does the promise of a doughnut after church appeal to her? Or to be given a new sticker to stick in a little notebook, say give her one periodically at certain parts of the Mass. Being *good* for the whole hour in order to get her reward might be too long an interval, so little mini-goals might work better. I don't know, just brain-storming.
Generally, a combination of redirection, removal of the object, and logical consequences should eventually bear fruit, although I'm sure not all of the time. When my (infamous) oldest was this age, and it seemed that none of our efforts along those lines was bearing fruit, I received some wise words from the pediatrician. He said that, even if it looked like things weren't *working*, we needed to be consistent and persistent, because one day (soon) she would mature to the point where our efforts would pay off. If, on the other hand, we thought we weren't getting it right, and kept changing our tune, she would never figure out what was expected; the difficult phase would wind up lasting longer. And, of course, he was right.
So, take courage, Jillian. None of this is easy, but it is absolutely normal.
Peace,
Nancy
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jillian
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 4:31pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn: I am looking for all situations but mainly at Mass right now. She's Potty Training so we've been sitting in the back to duck out easily.
Nancy: She will stay quiet 90% of the time but the times she doesn't are like everyone turns and looks at us loud, lol.We try not to bribe but it might be beneficial (like a new sticker or something nothing that's an obvious bribe. sort of like a potty chart but a good behavior chart).
I know we need to be consistent I really do but I get so tired of being a single parent most of the time. DH is gone a lot (military) and I do ALOT of the parenting/disciplining/errands by myself kwim? I don't have the option to swap masses (dh goes to one while i stay home and i go to another while dh keeps dd) since dh isn't Catholic.
Thank you, both of you, I do appreciate it very much
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
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Jillian~
This is one of my favorite posts about Children at Mass! It's so comprehensive and wonderful!
20 Things You Can Do To Help Your Child Behave At Mass from First Heralds blog.
And, here is a good one from the archives:
Mass Expectations for Toddlers
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 4:44pm | IP Logged
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ok I'm a "single parent" during Mass a lot of the time because my dh is a wildland firefighter, and we only have one Mass without driving 30 minutes one way to it.
I have literally left Mass sweating like I had been running not attending Mass 
The thing here is.. if you are very consistent now.. this will improve and you'll be amazed at the difference in a few short years.
First of all.. I always plan time for the bathroom before Mass starts and plan to escape during presentation of the gifts or after Communion for another trip during Mass.. and being sure to use the bathroom again at the end of Mass.. with the very close goal of knocking out the times in the middle.
When I have to take a toddler out of Mass they NEVER EVER EVER walk out of Mass on their own. I carry them. Getting to walk anywhere for any reason is a reward for disrupting Mass. They "made you" let them get up from their seat and move around you see.
If one of mine is loud during Mass. First of all I usually tell them that it's not their turn to talk that it's whoever is speaking at that time's turn and we need to listen. But if they're purposely being disruptive.. I carry them out to the car and put them into their car seat. I stay with them of course.. but they get absolutely ZERO attention from me. This usually makes them mad. Because they haven't gotten to run around but rather remain seated in their car seat that they can't get out of. When they calm down.. I will ask if they're ready to return to Mass and behave properly. This either sets them off again or they'll agree that they're ready and we go back in.. AGAIN I carry them back in.
This way they've gotten no reward for disrupting Mass in the form of freedom. And I also teach them that sitting in Mass where there's interesting things to look at and some attention from mom, cuddling, pointing to things etc. is highly perferable to sitting in your car seat with nothing going on and mom giving you no attention.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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MindyG
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| Posted: June 19 2010 at 11:28am | IP Logged
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Hi!
Having recently passed the 2 1/2 yr point with my kids I sympathize with you!
I potty trained my twins at 2 1/2 (they are almost 3 now), and after trying to sit in the rear twice for easier access to the bathroom, we immediately went back to sitting right up front and brought thick cloth diapers for them sit in (just in case) and of course back up church clothes. Anyway, I just wanted to second (or third) the recommendation to sit up front for better behavior. I absolutely could not believe how terrible mass went when we sat in the back. We stopped in a the potty before mass to minimize having to get up.
But, I also wanted to say that (maybe you already know this), "visiting" church before/after mass or another day not in conjunction with mass, helps a lot with behavior too, in my opinion. During a visit, you can talk freely to them about how to behave, show them special things (statues, tabernacle, etc), talk to them about how special it is to pray at church especially in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, and practice genuflecting. My kids love to practice kneeling and genuflecting. Also, I think a small reward for behaving enough to at least stay in church is helpful. And it doesn't have to be food or something that you have to remember to bring. My kids LOVE to be able to put money in the basket or light a candle by Mary and kneel and say a pray or anything else very specific to being at a church and being a big boy/girl (ie, quiet, walking close to mommy, etc.).
Good luck! and thank you ladies for the other good ideas as well.
Mindy
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: 2 1/2 year old discipline
