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Maggie
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| Posted: April 22 2010 at 8:04pm | IP Logged
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Hi Moms~
We have struggled with aggression with our dd (she'll be 5 next month) for over two years now. We even sought out expensive, professional help. Some of the ideas worked for a short period of time...and then she reverts.
She hits us. She scratches (and draws blood). I asked her why she does this and she said, "it's because I don't get my way!" Most often she will do it if I ask her to go to time out. I try to put her there after she runs away, and she lashes out...horribly.
We have tried everything: time out, taking away tv, taking away what little computer time she ever has, taking away toys, taking away play dates (or even going to play dates and making her sit in the corner and watch others have fun)...but there is only so much I can take away...or she gets bored...and I get nothing but a crabby, aggressive child...so nothing gets done around here...ever. My days are spent disciplining.
So I tried to stop disciplining...that worked...for a day...
I tried "time-in"...more hugs/kisses...more play time with her...more books, etc.
Nothing.
I tried spanking  Which I HATE. We said we would NEVER spank our kids for very serious reasons...and still...it didn't work. I think it exacerbated it, to tell you the truth.
I threw away a toy of hers because she just kept hitting. I knelt down to tell her she could earn it back, and she slapped me in the face. She has no shame about what she does and is very bold.
This child puts me to tears (not in front of her). I don't enjoy my day as a stay-at-home mom because it is juts battle after battle after battle.
She is definitely rubbing off on her brother, though, he responds to discipline--she does not.
The only time in the day when she is usually very good for me is when we home school. Go figure. I know so many moms who battle with their children to school...not mine, though, she is attempting more and more to run the show...and is starting to show her anger, too.
On the other hand, she has the most beautiful moments of pure sweetness and love...she has incredible, spiritual insights for her age...and is a joy to watch when praying sometimes...but these moments seem so much more rare than the bad ones.
I am trying so hard...and am at my wits end. I am ready to call for professional help again but am afraid it will be more of the same old same old...and expensive.
Has anyone ever dealt with such an aggressive child? Any advice at all?
Please pray for us...
Believe me, I would think that the last year that we have had might have been the cause of this...but she was like this before we lost all of our babies...but I do think this past year has been very difficult for her...
I need hugs from you more experienced moms.
__________________
Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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Maddie
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| Posted: April 22 2010 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
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Sending some hugs to you!
Yikes, you have your hands full, Maggie.
I'm sure much wiser moms can give you some great advice. Stick to your guns! With a strong will like that, she seems to have the makings of a great saint. 
Just a thought, you say she is very devout, maybe daily Mass would help? Maybe focus on that good quality in her?
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~Maddie~
Wife to my dh and Momma of 9 dear ones
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Maggie
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| Posted: April 22 2010 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
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She can be devout...when she wants to.
I neglected to mention that we have to leave the sanctuary of the church every Sunday...not because of my 2yo...but because of my almost 5 yo.
Her imagination is so active...that she will turn dirt into a toy--literally...so when as Mass, she will find anything to distract her (we gave her Magnifikid to distract her--but it's not enough, according to her)...so, she inevitably becomes a distraction and we try to quiet her down...and then she hits, scratches, etc...and she will purposely scream VERY LOUDLY at Mass...
My favorite at the end of Mass: "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord."
My 5yos SHOUTING response: "I WILL NOT GO IN PEACE TO LOVE AND SERVE THE LORD."
That about sums it up.
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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stefoodie
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| Posted: April 22 2010 at 8:37pm | IP Logged
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Have you looked into maybe changing her diet?
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stef
mom to five
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Maggie
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| Posted: April 22 2010 at 8:43pm | IP Logged
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I have had that suggested.
I wouldn't know what to change it to or why.
Granted, we are pretty healthy-crunchy...
I don't think she has problems with gluten or dairy...but I don't know for sure.
I do think, as does her ped, that she has a sensory-processing disorder...but this is so debatable...and there is virtually nothing for treatment other than being "aware", as far as I know...
Do you have suggestions for diet changing, Stef?
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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dakotamidnight
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| Posted: April 22 2010 at 9:13pm | IP Logged
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I have a 3.5 year old Daughter who is very similar, not quite as aggressive but getting there.
The only things I have found that worked:
Sticking with a single consequence for a LONG period of time. I.E. don't change tactics just stick with your guns. For us, what worked was taking away toys & DVD's.
Screening her TV & DVD choices. We found her behavior to act up with anything produced by HIT Entertainment, but especially Barney. We no longer allow anything by that company into our household. This includes Barney, Angelina Ballerina, The Wiggles, Bob the Builder, Kipper, and The newer Thomas Videos. I was told by a friend afterward that they have subliminal messages in the videos to encourage the improper behavior - I have no idea if that is true or not. We also no longer watch any of the Saturday morning cartoons, due to the increasing violence shown in them.
Getting her outside time every day. We make sure she gets her outside time in the sunshine every day if possible. Lots of outdoor playing and nature walks helped us.
Natural consequences - i.e. if you do not behave you do not get to go to the store, park, etc. Even if it meant that I had to pay a sitter for her.
Making sure that mentally she was stimulated. She needed that mental exercise just as much as she needed the physical. For us that meant lots of field trips and new experiences to give her things to think about. Perhaps that is why your daughter behaves for school?
Diet was also a factor with my daughter, for us Chocolate, even a tiny bite, was enough to ensure bad behavior all day. It might be worth charting what she eats & does and her resulting behavior to see if there is a pattern.
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 22 2010 at 9:36pm | IP Logged
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A couple of ideas to add to the many good suggestions here:
Try to work on one behavior at a time. This might mean working on hitting/scratching first and applying consequences to those behaviors.
Definitely monitor TV watching. I don't think most children's shows have subliminal messaging per se, but many do portray kids as awesomely intelligent beings lording it over the oh-so-doltish adults. Case in point: The Fairly Oddparents. That show really affected my dd's behavior/speech. I banned it. The change was almost instantaneous. It took a while before I connected that TV show with her behavior, by the way! (A TV diary will help with this.)
The Difficult Child, by Stanley Turecki, while having perhaps the most annoying title on the planet, is a classic reference for parents struggling to understand and cope with their children's temperaments. He doesn't really "get" attachment parenting, but his many good suggestions for discovering temperament and coping with tantrums are helpful. If you find that the analysis of temperament strikes a very familiar chord, you might also want to look at Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka (side note: this book changed my life).
There's more to your dd's behavior than just wanting to get her way, I am convinced, but she doesn't know how to tell you what is going on. It might help her if you occasionally take time to describe your feelings/emotions using words that make sense to her. ("When I feel angry, I feel like a volcano is growing in my tummy and it is getting ready to explode. If it explodes, I feel like hitting someone, but I know hitting is not okay. I like to (insert acceptable behavior you know she likes to do, like run around outside, hit a punching pillow, play with clay) instead.")
Even the most articulate children don't have all the vocabulary they need to say how they really feel. They have to learn it...from us.
And, WE are the ones who have to label their behavior with positive words (persistent vs. stubborn, sensitive vs. fussy, etc.) so they can develop a healthy self-esteem. No one else will do this. Parents have to start it and then redirect the criticisms of others with positive vocabulary words. It really makes a difference in helping a child see himself or herself as a worthwhile person with talents and strengths. (This is not buttering-up or meaningless flattery. This is stating the positive aspects of the child's temperament instead of always using terms with negative connotations.)
You're in my prayers, with much empathy, and so is your dd.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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organiclilac
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| Posted: April 22 2010 at 9:51pm | IP Logged
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It sounds like she has very big emotions! I think I would have to decide how I wanted her to express them and focus on cultivating that behavior rather than just eradicating the undesirable behavior. She sounds like she needs something to DO, whether that is scream in the bathroom or hit a pillow, or whatever. I have a friend whose son was a biter, and at one point she had gotten him to say (okay, he'd scream) "I want to bite you!!!" instead of actually biting the person. It wasn't the end goal, but it was definitely a step toward self-control.
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Tracy, wife to Shawn, mama to Samuel (4/01) and Joseph (11/11), and Thomas (2/15)
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: April 23 2010 at 6:38am | IP Logged
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You've received so many good suggestions, so I don't know if this will help at all but, my ds was a biter. We tried everything with him too and finally, because it seemed to be an attention seeking behavior, we simply started putting him in his room when he bit. No words, no yelling, no arguing. We just picked him up, put him in his room, and held the door shut for a little while. It was exhausting because he did not go willingly, but I felt he needed to learn that if he wants to be around the family, he has to treat them with kindness and respect.
I agree that spanking seems to exasperate these situations.
As far as diet, my ds is very hyper and overly emotional when he's been eating dairy and gluten. If you want to try it, start with just one though. Dairy is easier to cut out than gluten.
Try it for just two weeks and see if you see a change.
Editing to add: you said you are pretty healthy eaters so it probably goes without saying, but anything with high fructose corn syrup and food colorings should be avoided too.
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Becky
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4 lads mom
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| Posted: April 24 2010 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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There is hope, Maggie!!! I have had many of these experiences. I would actually put some weight behind the sensory integration issues..... maybe get an OT consult......it changed one of my ds’s.....it really helped. They teach the kids that their body is like an “engine”, and to recognize when their engines are running “too fast, too slow, or just right”, and then how to “get to Just right!” Watching the OT work with my guy helped me to recognize little cues that I wasn’t aware of before....and to see my ds wasn’t intentionally misbehaving, but at times, he couldn’t think through quick enough to react otherwise. My ds is now almost 12...different kid....no longer so prickly!!
I would look into it.....AND.....any emotions shown while disciplining these kids just seems to fuel their easily ignited fires. That is so, so, so hard when they have about pushed you to your limit all day  but the more “unemotional” you can be, surrounding their behavior, the better. I found the book, “The Explosive Child” helpful...again...not the best title...but it is helpful to read.
If she likes school, it makes me think she really likes structure....that is something to ponder....how can you structure her day more, maybe?
I’ll be praying....and check back in and update, okay?
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mathmama
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| Posted: April 24 2010 at 8:24pm | IP Logged
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dakotamidnight wrote:
Making sure that mentally she was stimulated. She needed that mental exercise just as much as she needed the physical. For us that meant lots of field trips and new experiences to give her things to think about. Perhaps that is why your daughter behaves for school?
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I think this is a good suggestion. My oldest dd is a sweetheart, but we have times when she is constantly pushing my buttons. She will be an instigator with me and with her younger sister. At these times we step up the school work and it helps her. In fact, a year ago that is why we started schooling. Dh really felt like oldest dd needed the stimulation and he was right! She is like me. When I was bored in school I became a trouble maker  Perhaps your dd is highly intelligent and needs a lot of stimulation.
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Therese 11/04
Anna Mary 6/07
Veronica 10/09
Theodora 11/12
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Aggressive child
