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sewcrazy
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 3:58pm | IP Logged
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My oldest son, 17, is home all week on spring break. I had planned a week of heavy spring cleaning, and he is not happy about the that! He wanted to go to Florida with friends (but no adults--no way!) and so has a giant chip on his shoulder. My 15 year old son is like a dog that is used to being dominant with a bigger dog now in the house. He keeps picking and picking at his older brother, who then over reacts  I have gotten nothing done, because as soon as they are out of my sight the fighting starts again. It finally reached the point where they are fighting even with me in the room. Right now they are both in their rooms cooling off.
I am exhausted and we still 6 days of spring break
Please ladies, any ideas. I desperately need this week to get the house in order. I can't live with my house anymore and I need their help and cooperation. I can't do heavy lifting, or go up and down the stairs alot.
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LeeAnn
Wife of David, mom to Ben, Dennis, Alex, Laura, Philip and our little souls in heaven we have yet to meet
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Maria B.
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Get Dad involved!
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Maria in VA
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
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Yep
Quote:
| like a dog that is used to being dominant with a bigger dog now |
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Bring in the really big dog..... DAD 
Also, try and have them work seperately. Have one go and do something and one stay with you to do your lifting and toting. That way one is always within your sight and one elsewhere.. that could help prevent fighting.
And since it is spring break. You might consider planning in some time for fun and not just work.. at least fun for those who've worked.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 4:11pm | IP Logged
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What Jodie said.
And if they resent helping, so be it. They don't have to like helping, they just have to help.
Also, consider creating a consequence for persistent fighting/teasing. One that hurts - like no video games, or Mom takes the wireless router with her whenever she leaves the house.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 4:27pm | IP Logged
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It's always so difficult when I have one set of expectations and my family members can't/don't/won't go with my program  .
Ditto to all of the above. See if Dad can be in charge of all discipline and consequences. Try to make consequences as easy and fitting as possible. For teens, we like to charge money. Try to find a time when all are calm and work together to come up with a plan. Tell them, "OK, we've gotten off to a rocky start but I think we can work this out. Let's get a plan together that will work for all of us. Let's each list one or two things that we want to accomplish in 6 days and figure out how to work together to get them done." Avoid drama at all costs. If discussion turns to finger-pointing, blaming, and belly-aching, just stay calm and say, "I understand that you are feeling resentful (or whatever) right now, but we're not talking about that. We're problem solving how to get things done. How do you think we can get your number one priority done?" If the boys persist, say "You both keep bringing up side issues. If you want to work these issues out on your own, please do so on your own time. Right now, we're figuring out how to get this house in order."
With dad taking care of discipline, this can free you up to ponder ways to serve your teens. Fill their love tank with a smile on your face! Often, this is just what is needed to soften a teen's heart...and get the house clean  .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Babs
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 4:32pm | IP Logged
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LeeAnn,
Wow, this all sounds familiar. I know the first year each of the boys has been away, it has been difficult for everyone to find their place when they come back. I would suggest having your husband speak to them. Also, maybe you could sit down and explain what you need from them and have them suggest some things they want to do this week. Then have them create a schedule that would allow them to do what you need first so they will have time to do what they want. I know my sons have been very unhappy about not being able to take similar trips for the same reason and it was hard on all of us during the break. I remember with one son we had to spend a lot of time discussing what we have done and continue to do for him, even when he is away, and his responsibility to the family. I will say after that first year it has gotten a lot easier.
As far as the dominant dog issue, we finally settled it by saying the biggest dog in the house at the time is the biggest dog. It seemed to make our second son realize that as soon as #1 leaves again he will be back to biggest dog. Now #3 rolls out of the way when #1 or #2 come home. And it must be confusing for the older boys to come home and have the position they have always had be challenged so this just puts everything back in order for them. I only tried it because someone I knew with older boys suggested it but it sounded ridiculous to me. It makes no sense to me as a woman but it seems to be the natural order with boys! I don't know why but it works and everyone seems happy with the arrangement.
God Bless,
Barb
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sewcrazy
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 4:40pm | IP Logged
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Unfortunately, my dh's big "threat" is "You are making your mother upset" Despite years of effort, he leaves all discpline to me. Also, he is just not physically present in the home to help referee.
It wasn't an "all work" spring break. I have a list for each day. Once the list is done, there is fun to be had.
At this point today, cell phones have been confiscated until the day's list is done and they clean up the mess they made fighting. They are in their rooms until dinner, and then we are going to try again to complete the chores.
I have tried to keep one by me and assign the other to another room. But the one with me will o to the bathroom or room downstairs or something and the fighting starts again.
Sigh......
I am going to sit them down after dinner, hopefully we can work this out.
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LeeAnn
Wife of David, mom to Ben, Dennis, Alex, Laura, Philip and our little souls in heaven we have yet to meet
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 4:57pm | IP Logged
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Angie's approach sounds great to me (in fact, I plan to steal it...today!). It's calm and authoritative.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 5:30pm | IP Logged
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sewcrazy wrote:
Unfortunately, my dh's big "threat" is "You are making your mother upset" Despite years of effort, he leaves all discpline to me. Also, he is just not physically present in the home to help referee.
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LeeAnn, let me see if I can explain. Whatever your dh does *is* his discipline and decision. I may not always agree with my dh's approach, but I find great relief in knowing and acting upon the fact that he is objectively the disciplinarian, if that makes sense. It's not so much about what he does or doesn't do, but rather, the role he plays. If your dh is a man who doesn't want to deal with the details of matters (I'm like that) perhaps it would help him for you to give him a few options to choose from. For example, you can say, "Honey, I need some concrete help here! I'm just one woman who wants a reasonably orderly home. I'm trying to work with two boys who are practically men! Two against one! I understand that this isn't their biggest priority but none the less, it's important to me and I need help getting it done. Do you think it would help if we set up some easy consequences that you can keep track of to help me out? Would you be OK if I charged them a buck the first time they don't do as I ask? Can I double it if I have to ask again? If it happens a third time, can I call you?" That type of thing.
sewcrazy wrote:
At this point today, cell phones have been confiscated until the day's list is done and they clean up the mess they made fighting. They are in their rooms until dinner, and then we are going to try again to complete the chores.
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On the consequences, I would make them manly - if you know what I mean. Money is manly. They may feel babied if they are sent to their room or have things taken away from them, which may result in resentment. Don't get me wrong, I take phones for a day, from time to time, but this is connected to the phones interferring with getting work done AND it is a pre-agreed upon arrangement - they know its coming.
At the heart of these matters is finding a way for each family member to get help communicating what they need and then to see the whole family as a team working together for the common good. You might want to throw in some sports metaphors in your discussion, if you think that would help  .
Stay strong, sister! I'm rooting for you!
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 5:32pm | IP Logged
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Babs wrote:
| As far as the dominant dog issue, we finally settled it by saying the biggest dog in the house at the time is the biggest dog. |
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Love it. Currently my two teens are a girl and a boy. We've needed to help my oldest dd to see and treat her younger brother as a man - a whole other topic. Our next teen will be another boy so this top dog suggestion will come in handy.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Angie Mc
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guitarnan wrote:
| Angie's approach sounds great to me (in fact, I plan to steal it...today!). It's calm and authoritative. |
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I LOVE teens in general! My dh and I met working with troubled youth, to include programs with teens. I love how clever they can be...especially at trying to get out of work  . I don't tend to take normal teen behavior personally and am quick to stand tall and confident in the face of shenanigans! Having said that, I admit that I have broken down into a puddle of tears with my own teens from time to time  . Mothering teens is tough and purposeful work - a true labor of love.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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sewcrazy
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 6:59pm | IP Logged
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Unfortunately I lost my post 
Thank you for the ideas. I can't charge them money, as my dh pays for everything so none of us have money on hand. I sent them to their rooms to separate them, as their rooms are on different levels of the house.
Dinner was not pleasant. The one was whiny and the other sarcastic. Both were belligerent.
I am trying to tread carefully here, so that I am not critical of my dh. Unfortunately, he does not see day to day parenting as part of his "job". I have tried to have conversation with him about a father's duties to his family many times over the past 17 years. He provides money, and takes the kids out on Sunday for "fun time" the rest is my job. Our sons know this, and know that if they appeal a consequence to my dh, 9 times out of 10, he will over rule me. Then he gets upset when the boys misbehave again. Yes, I have tried to talking to him, now I just pray.
I have no problem with them one at a time. The 2 oldest boys together is the problem. I think the next 4 days I am just going to divide the chores between them, and have each give me 2 full days of work and have 2 days off. Part of me feels like this is "giving in" to bad behavior, but I need to keep my sanity and get something accomplished.
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LeeAnn
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 06 2010 at 8:34pm | IP Logged
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You are on the right track, LeeAnn! Each of us needs to deal with whatever variables are falling into place at any given time. I'm ALL for the path of least resistance and/or the most practical route at times!
Not to push this money thing but...we do pay our children some money so that they have it, in part, for us to take away as needed (I hope that doesn't sound harsh!) Seriously, we give them pretty little which makes it mean all that much more. Perhaps as an incentive to get their work done these next few days, you can pay them a bit. I know, I know, some families would disagree with this approach but when push comes to shove, a few bucks might go a loooooooooooong way  .
Praying that you find just the right mix of options to help you all get through the next few days in a productive and pleasant fashion .
Love,
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Angie Mc
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sewcrazy
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Angie, I have tried to persuade my dh to give the kids some form of "pin" money to teach them to manage money, but he is firm that he will provide them with everything they need.
They seem content with the 2 days on, 2 days off arrangement. I might not et as much as I hoped done, but probably more then if I tried to make them work together. 
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LeeAnn
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guitarnan
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LeeAnn, it sounds like you have a good plan for the week. The divide-and-conquer approach is road tested, for sure, and it works.
I think your husband's heart is in the right place - from what you say, he takes his vocation as provider very seriously. That's a blessing, and he is setting a good example for your children.
Financial management is a life skill, for sure, but having an allowance/pin money is just one way to learn about personal finance. The Boy Scouts' personal management merit badge covers a lot of these topics (you can find more info at www.meritbadge.com).
I'm still praying...
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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sewcrazy
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Nancy, I know my husband means well. I was not trying to be critical. It is simply how he is. He works very hard, because he doesn't want the rest of us to have to work hard.
Part of my stress was that he really wanted the house deep cleaned this week. The boys knew that, and were still so disagreeable.
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LeeAnn
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Sarah
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I don't know if this is a good system or not but I give my boys "penalties." For example, let's say there is a serious act of disrespect to a sibling, I tell them that's "1" and before there is any privilege that I can control, reparation is made for that penalty. They might get like 5 penalties, but they usually start to shape up. So when its "time to go" to a friend's house, I say "whoa, looks like you have some mending to do." then there is a little or big job for each penalty. Dad can assign jobs for penalties and check up to see if it was done satisfactorily. If the offense hurt another sibling that reparation may come in the way of doing a job for that sibling like that sibling's kitchen job that day.
I tell them that the bad attitude, fighting, lack of helping or whatever takes a huge toll on me physically and emotionally. If they are going to expect me to drive them around, hand out money for activities, etc etc, them they will have to make up for the time and energy that was lost with me having to deal with their behavior. This works for my very intense 13 yo. I don't know if it would work for an older boy. He is completely dependent on me for any privileges.
Also, I have the "if you don't work, you don't eat" motto in my house. Its not fair that we all work and you don't but still come to the table. Period. St. Paul says that somewhere, I believe.
Boys and fighting are so tough. Teens, when they get ouchy are also so tough.
I agree to make sure there is fun and happiness, even if they don't look happy.
Also, pray to St. Michael and Our Lady. It can help dispel the evil. What about a family trip to confession to clear their minds, let the graces flow, and give a fresh start then celebrate with ice cream or something they love.
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sewcrazy
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Well things went better until today. The one's plans were cancelled, so they were both home, and again they fought all day. They are way too big and strong for me to get between when they pushing and shoving at each other. I finally had them walked the subdivision loop in opposite directions. Both to put space and burn off some testosterone. It is a 3 mile loop.
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LeeAnn
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Maddie
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sewcrazy wrote:
| They are way too big and strong for me to get between when they pushing and shoving at each other. |
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What would they do if you got your biggest wooden spoon and smacked them a good one on the arm or bottom when they went at each other? My dh had a full-blooded Irish boss who was 6'6 and so was his brother. His mom was all 4' something and he would tell stories about his mom smacking he and his brother with a baseball bat when they would fight! She would not tolerate it and he and his brother knew not to fight around her because she meant business...They would talk of her so fondly too!
Just a thought, I know it's controversial today to say such things but sometimes that's all a hot-headed testosterone-filled boy can relate too.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this, please totally disregard if it offends. Just my 2 cents...
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~Maddie~
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JodieLyn
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Maddie, I was thinking a bucket of water.. bet it would get their attention. Of course you have to consider what else would get wet 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Fighting teens
