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Angel
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| Posted: July 21 2009 at 9:37am | IP Logged
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Anyone whose kids spring out of bed at 6 AM is probably going to see this subject line and think I'm insane. But here's my problem.
My older two kids -- age 12 and 10 -- have always been night owls. My oldest in particular has always had a wacky sleep schedule and has never needed as much sleep as other kids. He routinely goes to bed at 11, but can still get up at 8. Sometimes he's still up for a few hours in the middle of the night unable to sleep. He and my 10 yo dd are kind of in their own wing of the house. They have their own rooms (all the little ones are in the other bedroom next to ours). My 12 yo ds likes to talk to my dd until *he's* ready to go to bed. Which is often after *both* of them come out to watch TV (or whatever) with my dh after he gets the twins and the 6 yo to bed around 9:30 or so. My dh loses track of time, and I am usually the one who comes out after I put the toddler to bed. I usually read a little and pray, so it's always after 10... sometimes 10:30 or later.
This would not be such a problem (although it makes it really difficult for my dh and I to spend time together) if my dd could get up in the morning. But she is going through her growth spurt and needs quite a bit of sleep. Therefore, it is impossible to get her up in the morning. Since she is easily distracted -- more so when she's tired -- it always takes her forever to get dressed, too. Some days this means that she's eating breakfast at 10.
This wouldn't bother me so much if we weren't always waiting on her to say morning prayer, or if the little boys got up later than 7:30. I feel as if all I do is nag-nag-nag... nag them to go to bed, nag them to get up, nag her to get dressed...
Any suggestions?
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: July 21 2009 at 9:46am | IP Logged
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Do morning prayer with her in jammies and without having had breakfast if she can't get moving fast enough to be done otherwise?
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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doris
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| Posted: July 21 2009 at 5:38pm | IP Logged
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I'll be eagerly awaiting suggestions, as my situation is similar to yours. My big two (only 8 and 7) don't fall asleep before 10.30, and then wake between 7.30 and 8.30, but are sloooow to get started.
Sometimes, setting them a challenge works ('The 8.15 challenge' for breakfast or whatever.) When I asked some experienced mums for advice, they swore by rewards. Trouble is, I loathe the idea of bribing them to do what I think is just part of normal life...
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Home educating in London, UK with dd (2000) ds (2002), dd (2004), ds (2008) and dd (2011).
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Erin
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 7:39am | IP Logged
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Well if your insane so are we. Same situation here.
To get them up of a morning dh has taken to putting some nice music on to help them slowly awaken. Can you tell he has the same issue?
I now have a policy on weekdays that if they haven't eaten by 8am they have to eat in the kitchen standing up at the bench. Prayers start at 8am (well theoretically) and they arrive in pajamas if they aren't dressed. They are good about coming to prayers, I just start and by the end of the Morning Offering they are all there. If I waited to start I wait a long time, if I start they 'fall in'  
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Erin
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mom2mpr
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 11:17am | IP Logged
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Just wanted to let you know you are not insane. We have the same problem here.
I am going to do school 10-3 this year. With lunch in the middle I am not sure how this will work. Though I am going to try to prepare lunch the night before to make it quicker.
I have given up on my dream of starting school at 8 or 9 am.
Anne
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Taffy
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
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I've been hoping to see someone chime in with ideas here as we have the very same problem. Today went better as I took Erin's suggestion of simply starting whether the kids were ready or not. Maybe that's the key?
Hoping for some more ideas...
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Susan
Mom to 5 on earth and 1 in heaven
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 1:22pm | IP Logged
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Looking for some direction for this thread.......
First, if there is anyone who has BTDT, and one of your kids is on a different schedule, and it has worked for your family, what factors made it work for you?
**Fill in the blank......"As long as my son X, Y, or Z, then it didn't matter if he slept in. He's productive and helpful during the rest of the day, so we're good with that."
**Specifically what things about your schedule did you or did you not change in the family's schedule. (ie: nothing says that family prayers MUST be said in the morning.)
**What sort of clear expectations did you set for the older children who have a different schedule? How did you reinforce that? What are the parameters of a scenario like this?
**Brainstorm ways to altar your schedule to accommodate these different sleep habits.
Otherwise, from others who are struggling with this, I'd like to know if you clearly are saying, "This is NOT working in our family....it must change....our schedules must be in sync." Then the question becomes What can we do to help my child/family get on schedule together?
Or, are you looking to brainstorm the first bunch of questions.......where you have decided to accommodate them?
Or....are you undecided? And, looking for considerations on how to figure out WHAT to do?
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 1:32pm | IP Logged
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Some random ideas
Plan in a set amount of time in the morning for them to "wake up".. and then the amount of time for dressing, breakfast, chores, whatever.
Do more for them in the mornings.. like have breakfast ready and have them eat in jammies so there's nothing but eating to be slow at and then by the time they eat, they should be awake enough to get on with the other things.
They may only stay up to when they do, if they can function in the mornings (just about all of us must learn this sooner or later).. so each day they're late for morning prayers, they go to bed 15 minutes earlier.
Compromise might be nice.. for instance if they get up earlier on Monday to Thursday.. then on Friday and Saturday they can sleep later.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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JennGM
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 1:40pm | IP Logged
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I don't have experience here with my own children, but I have some tidbits to throw out.
Do your children have a strong sense of time? Can you set a time for them to realize "Lights out and no more talking at ___ pm".
I struggle with getting up in the morning. And when we have a late night, it makes it even harder. On my retreat this year one of my resolutions was to get up earlier, shower and pray before the kids wake up. It's a really, really hard thing to do. But then I got the advice that it's more than just the "heroic minute (or moment)" in the morning but also the heroic minute at night. Set a strict bedtime for myself, earlier, so I can get a good night's sleep and be a good wife and mom the next day.
Growing children do need the sleep. If you don't think you can "fix" the nighttime routines to add those extra hours of sleep, can you move the schedule a bit, going later, or having some reading assignment around bedtime -- utilizing those late times?
When I was younger and we were homeschooling, and even during the summer hours, my mother kept a pretty tight ship. Her rules were similar to Erin's. She would ring a bell (over the intercom) to get us up, and the kitchen would be closed by a certain time. And kids would show up in their pjs for school, but they would have to start at a certain time.
Consequences were imposed, privileges revoked until they followed.
In my own family I'm lenient for the younger children as far as sleeping in, as I think they need the sleep. It usually doesn't happen past 9:00 though.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Angel
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 2:16pm | IP Logged
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re: Suzanne's questions... I *would* like us all to be on roughly the same schedule. Everybody doesn't have to get up at exactly the same time or go to bed at exactly the same time, but I'd like to get going in the morning by aroun 9 AM. We have chickens and turkeys that have to be fed, dishes to be done, etc. And it feels... I don't know, "off" to me when we don't start the day with prayer together. Our days when we don't pray in the morning usually end up as, well, bad ones.
I started the "must be dressed before coming out of your room" rule a while back (during the fall or winter) because my dd would come out around 9 in her pjs, we would pray, read, etc. (we were doing school then), and then I would send her back to her room to get dressed and do her chores... and 45 minutes later, she would have managed to put on clothes, but nothing else. Then she had to brush her teeth, etc., and do chores, and by the time she got chores done, she had eaten up quite a bit of time for school. That time was our project time, which is generally enjoyed, so it should have been a consequence, but... I'm afraid there's a bit of ADD going on here. 
(The general problem I have with consequences and this child is that she doesn't seem to care if any priveleges are revoked.)
Anyway, maybe I should give this a shot again. I totally agree that bedtime is connected to wake-up time; I see in this myself. And I know she likes to wake up slowly... so I try to wake her up early enough that she has time to actually wake up, but...
On the other hand, I guess if anyone could tell me how they function with one child in a large family on a totally separate schedule, I would like to hear about it, too. At this point, I think I just need to start thinking outside the box.
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Angela
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Leonie
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 6:23pm | IP Logged
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Most of my kids are night owls and we have always done the no bedtimes, self regulatory thing.
I loved it when toddlers were up late with the rest of the family and then slept in till nine!
But with older kids we just made a rule that they had to be up by eight at the latest on weekdays - if it has to be earlier because we are going out, I let every know the night before. So, hopefully, they can adjust their bedtimes.
Some of my kids are like me - late to bed and early to rise. As a rule, we are the ones who don't need a lot of sleep. Others need more - so they get the sleep-in till eight. If they are not up by themselves at eight
( actually this year it has been 7.30 am simply because we have been so busy!) - well, if they are not up, someone tells 'em to get up. And if need be we open doors and blinds. 
Yes, some miss out on sleep and some hate being woken up. And some dash out the door with us without having eaten breakfast - no time ( They learned that from me, I often forget to eat breakfast!) ! Over time, though, they seem to have learned to try to get to bed at a more reasonable time at least some nights and for the most part, they get up and get going, albeit sleepily.
Why did we ( I) make the eight/seven thirty wake up time? Because we have a lot of things we are doing and any later just impacts on the whole family. And I have all boys, and I think maybe staying in bed, half awake, half asleep, is not good for them. Being obtuse here but perhaps you get my drift. 
We just set expectations re this - if someone found it hard to comply we talked about whys and wherefores and practicalities. We also have the no hanging around in pyjamas rule, too. so that helps. The ones that wake up slowly still have to be up but breakfast here is a help yourself affair so they can do that themselves while getting ready - this doesn't impact on others. Prayers we do either at a morning tea sort of time or in te car on the way out.
Don't know if this helps in any way, but it is the way it works out here, with a large-ish family and many outside activities. 
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Leonie in Sydney
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Taffy
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 7:59pm | IP Logged
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I'm interested in hearing from those who've "been there, done that". I know from experience that nagging doesn't work and I REALLY hate going into "drill sergeant" mode. Unfortunately, that seems to be the only thing that will get them going sometimes. 
Erin's idea of simply starting the day and expecting the kids to show up on time, ready or not, seems to be what I need. It showed some promise this morning. For me, I think I need to be better disciplined about my before bed routine to see some substantial improvement.
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Susan
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Erin
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| Posted: July 22 2009 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
| When I was younger and we were homeschooling, and even during the summer hours, my mother kept a pretty tight ship. Her rules were similar to Erin's. She would ring a bell (over the intercom) to get us up, and the kitchen would be closed by a certain time. And kids would show up in their pjs for school, but they would have to start at a certain time. |
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How surprising to be but in the same sentence as someone who 'runs a tight ship' if only you knew my words though are only through years of trial and error, I used to ask a friend for advice but as she get up at 4am by choice!!! we really weren't on the same page.
My dh's boss told him that he deliberately doesn't schedule meetings before 10am as although David is there in body his boss knows his brain isn't really there.
Sundays our Mass is at 8AM!!! I'm sure my kindred spirits here know how difficult it is to wake my children up at 6.45am and be out the door by 7.30am, particularly in winter.
I have independent 'worksheets' (which I can share) for older AND independent workers; (older doesn't necessarily mean independent) therefore they can do there work at different times. But I still find that it really works best if they are all up by 8AM.
One thing not mentioned is mum's body rhythm, although some of my children are night owls and could work then, you also have to take into account YOUR rhythm. I need to be finished by lunchtime with lessons, I can't function otherwise, I become cranky and irritable. So negotiations go on here alot. A balance between individual and family needs.
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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Kristie 4
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| Posted: July 23 2009 at 9:11am | IP Logged
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Leonie,
Do you keep this rule in the summer as well? (Love it by the way- very much my inclination but too much of a sucker to usually implement it- thanks for giving my a dose of courage!)
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Kristie in Canada
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Leonie
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| Posted: July 25 2009 at 4:16pm | IP Logged
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Yes, Kristie, we do. We unschool so really our summer holidays are the same as our school year - some days we do formal work, many days we don't , we go out, have people over. When we go away on vacation, we tend to be going out and visiting places and doing things, too, so we wouldn't sleep in past eight am. The only exceptions are after a series of long nights, over Christmas and New Years, that kind of thing.
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Leonie in Sydney
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Getting kids up in the morning
