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KauaiCatholic
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| Posted: June 22 2009 at 8:59pm | IP Logged
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I am finally brave enough to ask about this. there was a similar thread about older moms finishing the race http://4real.thenetsmith.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=26098&PN=1 that touched on this somewhat, but I'm coming from a slightly different place. (and sorry; I can't figure out how to set that link better!)
here's my question: is being open to life enough, or do we owe it to the unborn to try harder?
here's why I ask: we had trouble conceiving both of our DC, which is why they are almost 4 years apart. the youngest is turning 4 this week, DH and I just turned 39, and he is asking, so, are we done? or will we ever know? (I think he's mostly wondering, how long do we hang on to the baby things? and can we estimate a retirement age yet?) while we're open to life (and act accordingly, IYKWIM) we haven't felt pulled toward fertility drugs to force the issue. (I know we can't FORCE the issue, only God can. "take a more aggressive approach" is better wording, I guess). we did that in our early years of marriage and it was horrible. and then DS#1 came along after we stopped, so there's God's plan for you. 
however, some recent factors make me wonder if our "wait and see" attitude is good enough. I BLAME 4REAL!!! (no, just kidding.)  but seriously, after just a few months of reading this forum I am now much more open to the idea of larger families later in life than I had been (the enthusiasm here is contagious!) I am also watching two good friends exuberantly embrace their 4th and 7th pregnancies. (perhaps I'm also just getting older and hearing my clock tick.) but I still am leery of fertility medication. and, in the interest of full disclosure, my earlier pregnancies were difficult (bed rest for the 2nd and 3rd trimesters), plus we're a whole lot further away from family support this time around. I also struggle with depression. I don't want those to be factors, but I worry they might be.
and yet, my heart is being tugged. our family feels perfect as it is, but it could be bigger ... so is it enough to be open, or do we try harder? and for how long? anybody else out there been down this road? any advice on how to discern between fears and realities, or for patience in the process, would also be very much appreciated. 
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 Viviane
Grateful mama of Jonah Augustine ('01), Sophia Marie ('05) and Luke Dominic ('10)
We can do no great things; only small things with great love. -- Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
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Mary G
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| Posted: June 22 2009 at 9:07pm | IP Logged
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First, 39 is NOT old ... I had my 5th at 41! In God's time is the way I've always been but as we age the miscarriages and what ifs seem to get worse as we know the clock is ticking -- when I was younger,it was a very different story.
That said, I don't think you want to go the fertility drug route -- I'm don't think that's legit by Church teachings, (but I could be wrong and your priest should be able to advise you better).
One of the problems with a great big family like 4real is that so many of the members have great big families ... but not all ... some have just one and some have adopted or fostered the ones they have ...
I suggest prayer -- God will show you what He wants y'all to do ... but getting rid of the baby stuff always seemed to induce pregnancies for me! 
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MaryG
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KauaiCatholic
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| Posted: June 22 2009 at 9:25pm | IP Logged
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Mary G wrote:
| That said, I don't think you want to go the fertility drug route -- I'm don't think that's legit by Church teachings, (but I could be wrong and your priest should be able to advise you better). |
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YIKES!!! I hadn't even thought about getting that checked by another source! our priest at the time said taking Clomid was OK, but he discouraged the more strenous steps recommended by my ob/gyn. if he was wrong about the Clomid, my question will be answered already.
thankfully for all concerned, a trip to Mardi Gras succeeded where the meds didn't. and giving away my maternity and nursing clothes triggered the second pregnancy ... thanks for reminding me!
I'll go research more. and in the meantime, thank you for the comforting encouragement ... I feel better already! bless you!
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Viviane
Grateful mama of Jonah Augustine ('01), Sophia Marie ('05) and Luke Dominic ('10)
We can do no great things; only small things with great love. -- Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: June 22 2009 at 9:36pm | IP Logged
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fertility drugs can be used.. what can't be used are methods that seperate procreation from the marital act and ones that kill babies (from the moment of conception on).
I don't believe we're under any obligation to go to extraordinary methods to have children.. and using fertility drugs would be extraordinary.
And even those who have had normal fertility may find that things change.. sometimes you don't get pregnant again easily.. sometimes it can be years.. and pretty much if you're open to life you don't count your retirement before menopause
I think it's natural to be attracted to something you don't have.. like in your case a big family.. when you see it from the perspective of those that love it. But you can borrow your kids' friends for instance to have a larger family at times, or a CCD class or youth group.. perhaps you could think of what exactly it is you want to do or would have fun doing.. like my sister has 2 boys so she'll borrow my girls occationally to do those more girly things with them.
But if you do decide to "try harder", expect that yes you will "ruin" everything in the sense that any time you add a child.. no matter how many children you have.. there will be a "new normal" as everyone adjusts and you fit your life around it.
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MaryM
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| Posted: June 22 2009 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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I hope Jodie's clarification on the use of fertility drugs like clomid helped. I'm going to link to the Guidelines for Catholics on the Evaluation and Treatment of Infertility which is on the Pope Paul VI Institute website (which is also listed various other places like the USCCB site). The use of fertility drugs are part of "Appropriate medical treatment of ovulatory and hormonal dysfunction" in the section on Reproductive Technologies in Agreement with Catholic Teachings.
Like Jodie said, no one is under obligation to take extra measures like this. This is a prudential decision between spouses, guided in prayer.
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Mary M. in Denver
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: June 22 2009 at 9:47pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Mary.. I was trying to think where I would find that.. I knew the information was correct but was just sitting here thinking... now do I find that in the Catechism? or maybe the NFP book might have it.. or where WAS that.. 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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SaraP
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| Posted: June 23 2009 at 8:55am | IP Logged
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The best advice I have ever received on discernment in general is this:
In most situations it is God's will is for us to fulfill the normal requirements of our vocation in the normal way. If God calls us to do something extraordinary He will make His will extraordinarily clear.
So, for example, most mothers of dependent children are not called to found religious orders because our normal responsibility is to take care of our children. However, in the case of St. Jane Frances de Chantal His will was different and He made sure she knew that.
In your situation the normal requirement is to be open to life. If God wants you to do something more you can trust that He will make that clear. And remember that God wants us to know what He wants us to do so when we sincerely seek His will we can be confident about finding it.
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Mama to six on earth, two in heaven and two waiting in Russia. Foxberry Farm Almanac
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KauaiCatholic
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| Posted: June 24 2009 at 3:03pm | IP Logged
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thank you ladies. I am praying for discernment with a clearer sense of focus, and feeling comforted already. (and that mention of NFP reminded me, maybe we can focus on some of THOSE methods. and maybe I'll start giving away baby stuff. who knows? )
in the meantime, I already feel a sense of peace I haven't in a long time.
thank you again ...
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Viviane
Grateful mama of Jonah Augustine ('01), Sophia Marie ('05) and Luke Dominic ('10)
We can do no great things; only small things with great love. -- Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
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KerryK
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Viviane,
I just saw this now and wanted to say that I know how you feel. I just turned 40, and my three are spaced pretty far apart due to my miscarriages. We are completely open to life and would love another, but there is some trepidation about it : what if we have another loss? Also, my pregnancies have been complicated by diabetes, early labor, blood pressure issues, and always, bed rest. So I'm starting to accept the fact that having a "large" family may not be the vocation God has for me. I think feeling ok with what I've got and not comparing myself to others is so important.
Good luck!
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KauaiCatholic
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ADDED WITH A MONTH LATER: well, God has amazing timing (not to mention a great sense of humor!) apparently, just a few days off from the time I wrote this first post, WE CONCEIVED!! YAAAAYYYY!!!!!
so ... I guess I didn't need to bother you after all. but I wanted to thank everyone for these kind, supportive words of comfort and advice.
 and blessings on you all ... and here's a resounding WOO-HOO for having babies at 39!
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Viviane
Grateful mama of Jonah Augustine ('01), Sophia Marie ('05) and Luke Dominic ('10)
We can do no great things; only small things with great love. -- Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
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Sharyn
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Congratulations!!!
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Mum to dd (00), ds (03), dd (04), ds (06), one in God's care (08), dd (09), ds (11), one in God's care (13), and ds (13)
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Mary G
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Congrats and prayers for a healthy and safe pregnancy .... God is so good ...
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MaryG
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stefoodie
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Wow, congratulations on your blessing! And praying that all goes smoothly. Keep us posted!
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stef
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Carole N.
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Congratulations! Praying for a safe and smooth pregnancy.
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Carole ... in Wales
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Bridget
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Congratulations! I am happy for you!
I was already pregnant with my last baby as I was giving away all my baby things thinking God was done with us in that area.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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St. Ann
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Viviane, Congratulations!
What wonderful news.
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Stephanie
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Paula in MN
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Congratulations!
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Paula
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KC in TX
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Congratulations!!!
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Congratulations!
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Susan
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Congratulations, Viviane! Praying for a wonderful pregnancy.
Peace,
Nancy
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: fertility, aging IRONIC UPDATE
