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erika
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| Posted: Aug 15 2008 at 10:15pm | IP Logged
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Maybe I should post this in the prayer request section... I am really feeling like I'm at the end of my rope. I have been a SAHM for two weeks and my 4yo is pushing me to the brink of insanity. I tell you I feel almost like a possessed person when I have to deal with her antics. I've tried threats, spankings, time out, pleading, giving her more attention, she just does not care. She does whatever she wants, disobeys, hurts her sister, hurts the cat, screams whenever she feels like it. She's driving me to drink. She whines and throw tantrums if she doesn't get her way. So, finally, I thought I'd try to do what I read John Rosemond say in his Six Point plan book, I took every single toy and book away from her and she will have to earn them back with her behavior. Why I thought this would work, I have no idea. She just bounced around on the bed laughing as I packed up her things in trash bags and dumped them in the basement. DH gets home and gets her to do 2 things and gives her 2 toys back, then those get taken back away because she throws another tantrum over not getting to play the Wii. So, now since she doesn't have anything to play with of her own she gets her sister's baby toys and plays with them. And still she won't listen. She thinks every thing we say is a joke and it just makes me so angry that I scare myself. Then I start feeling like I made a huge mistake even having kids. I don't know how I think I'm going to be able to homeschool her if I can't even discipline her effectively. I just am so lost I don't know what to do... God help me please!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Aug 16 2008 at 12:42am | IP Logged
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consistency.. and perseverence.. you won't win out by one single over the top punishment.. just be consistently enforcing the rules.. over and over and over and over.. you win out by holding on longer and she's just testing the rules to see if they're going to stay the same and if you'll stay home even if she doesn't behave. Oh not intellectually but that's likely what she's doing.
I wouldn't take all the toys myself.. but that's because I've seen the naughtiness and havoc mine will create finding things to play with.. they just can't have no toys and free time.. that's a recipe for disaster.
Keeping her with you all the time will be really hard to start with.. but by doing so you can catch her each and everytime she gets out of line. Pick one thing and work on it.. not everything at once. Have her help you do stuff where you can or have activities she can do near you.. you'll spend most of your time at first establishing the boundaries and that yes you will stop and/or retrieve her every time she tries to "make a break for it".. the more you do exactly what you say (better watch what you say so that you can do it) the sooner it will all pan out (not soon.. that depends more on personality.. but sooner for than otherwise for that child)
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Michaela
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| Posted: Aug 16 2008 at 12:54am | IP Logged
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Was she always like this, Erika? or has she started testing you now that you're home full-time with her?
Last night, I was watching that Nanny911 show (usually never do, but I needed to veg out  ) and the mom just quit her job to stay with her three little ones. They did the exact thing you're saying your dd does. It was mainly to test mom because she had never had to deal with her children all day....dad was the one who had done it for three years.
I have a child who at about the same age had me feeling many of the emotions you've shared. With my first I thought I was the perfect mom...perfect child. Well, I got slapped off that high horse, let me tell you.   I can't count how many times people would tell me "Better you than me!" Ugh.
Find something that works for you and stick with it. It can be SO HARD. Be consistant.
If this is behavior that isn't normal for your dd, maaaybe she's testing you to see if you are really staying home. Kinda....if I'm really bad, will mommy leave. NO! Mom is here to stay.
If you need to, come back here and talk. I know there were times a few years back I thought I would lose my mind. Seriously. I don't think many people ever share how bad it can get.
Smiley faces and all...no, this really is the hardest job.
Praying for you, Erika. 
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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MaryM
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| Posted: Aug 16 2008 at 3:34am | IP Logged
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Praying for you too, Erika. Michaela and Jodie have said what I would have - but better and more succinctly. I really bet there is an adjustment testing going on - add that to a certain tempermant/personality that is strong-willed and you have a challenging combo right now. Their suggestions are great too - especially consistency.
Again, know that we are praying for you.
Oh, and BTW, 4 year olds are REALLY hard in general - I always found them to be much harder than the "terrible twos" (which were nothing in comparison )
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chrisv664
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Erika,
I think the other ladies have given you some wonderful advice. My husband used to say "we have to be more stubborn than they are". This speaks to Jodie's comment about perseverence. Also, when figuring out consequences, you need to make sure you are first of all consistent in doing it every time, and secondly, make sure that it feels like a consequence to your daughter. Sometimes what we think would be a really tough punishment for a child, for them is a walk in the park. For example, our oldest (now 20) used to hate being told to stand in the corner when she was naughty, therefore she complied with the rules to avoid this. The next one wouldn't mind standing there all day! She spent a lot of time in the corner until I realized, this "punishment" is not punishment to her. It can be really tedious, but once you decide on a consequence, be prepared to spend several days dishing it out. She'll see you are consisitent, and you mean what you say. You should see the behavior start to fade.
On a more "fun" side, since you're home, try to involve her in as many of your activities as possible. Four- year-olds don't really look at our chores as work. She is old enough to fold laundry (at least towels), sort silvereware, spray glass doors and mirrors and wipe them, sweep, help you cook, etc.She may think it is fun helping you out with these things and you will have her occupied with something useful when she otherwise may have been causing trouble. We always insist on the children responding to us by looking us in the eye and saying "Yes, mommy, or yes, daddy" My husband says this is like a contract... now both parent and child know they have been heard and the child has agreed to whatever the request was. This really helped with that second child who loved to ignore us!
My prayers are with you... being a SAHM is alot of work on so many levels, but this is a time for growth for your family. Just keep praying and you will definitely rise to the challenge!
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Chris
Loving Wife of Dan and Mom to Kate, Jessica, Ben,
Rebecca, Thomas and Hannah
Burning The Candle At Both Ends
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SusanJ
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What was your 4yo doing when you used to work? Was she in daycare? If so, she's probably used to a lot of structure and routine. Even if she only had a babysitter, you might think about, or ask, what that babysitter did each day. If she was extremely structured and you are still figuring out your structure that could be hard on a 4yo. My son is almost four and he's pretty well-behaved but I decided to start "school" this year just because it's so apparent he needs a bit more routine to his day. Just don't try to do a routine all at once--the advice to work on one thing at a time is good.
Even if you don't have a full-fledged routine or schedule I have found that at least having a plan for the next step is immensely helpful. For example, I can usually find some morning time to check e-mail and check in here while the kids are having "free play" but it only works if I know exactly what we're going to transition to. So, I might have a story picked out so that when I hear the kids start to really go at each other I can quit here and get them both on the couch for the story--just a simple change of scenery like that works wonders. Also, I do better when I have a discipline or consequence plan. I'm still really working on this myself but if I just know, "If Joseph dumps water out of the tub, his bath is over," then I can calmly enforce the consequence rather than yelling at him. This is a hard habit to cultivate, for me, anyway.
This is a pretty big transition for your family! I'll be sending up some prayers for all of you as you adjust.
Susan
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teachingmyown
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MaryM wrote:
Oh, and BTW, 4 year olds are REALLY hard in general - I always found them to be much harder than the "terrible twos" (which were nothing in comparison )
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Absoulutely! 4 is a hard age.
I agree she is testing you. Stay calm and matter-of-fact. Don't yell or spank. (Not because I am strictly opposed to spanking, I am not. But because she needs to be reassured and build up trust in this new relationship.) Capitalize on those good moments and say things like "I am so glad to be home with you all the time now!"
A favorite book of mine is Parenting with Love and Logic. It helps you think through situations ahead of time so that you aren't trying to come up with something on the spot when you are at your wit's end.
Hang in there, and pray for help. We all have that kid (or kids) that push all the wrong buttons and make us want to join the convent!
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Aug 16 2008 at 10:28am | IP Logged
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Erika-
You've gotten all the advice I'd give...I just want to third this:
teachingmyown wrote:
MaryM wrote:
Oh, and BTW, 4 year olds are REALLY hard in general - I always found them to be much harder than the "terrible twos" (which were nothing in comparison ) |
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Absoulutely! 4 is a hard age.
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and say that consistency is going to be key. You're about to chink off a few years in purgatory, but the result will be so worth your effort.
I agree, she's testing. Decide now on some clear, simple consequences that you can stick to and then be ready to help her live out those consequences. For example, when she speaks or acts disprespectfully just tell her, if she can't speak nicely or act nicely, you will have to help her calm down by removing her from the family area. We use a black bench in our entryway. Perfect for this sort of thing - "You will sit on the black bench!" But, others do time-outs, it doesn't matter what you do or call it. It does matter that you enforce it every cotton-pickin' single time she tests - whether you're in the middle of eating, folding clothes, heading to the bathroom. Be vigilant! She's going to throw a ripper of a fit probably - there will be kicking, hitting, screaming - she's going to pull out all the stops. I guarantee, she's gonna hop right up. Just calmly pick her up and plop her bottom right back down every time she does. (It's very hard not to get angry here, but it will be important that you don't - she's trying to get a reaction from you!) Count to yourself if you have to, practice your useless labor and delivery breathing skills whatever is necessary to use a neutral, almost quiet voice. "If you can't sit here by yourself, I'm going to help you." No need to engage in any other explanation. Be simple. Be firm. Be quiet. Follow through. Every time. It will work!
I'll be sending some prayers for you!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
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folklaur
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| Posted: Aug 16 2008 at 11:41am | IP Logged
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Only skimmed responses so I will probably repeat some of what has already been said.
She is so totally testing you. If you have never been with her all day, even though it is great that you are now, she doesn't have any idea what to expect. And if you will really stay home no matter what.
IMO, so take it for what it is worth, I wouldn't be letting a 4 year old have very much video game time no matter what. They don't need it. But if she has up to now, she will go through withdrawls if you limit her time.
We don't spank, so I can't help you there. A book I would recommend is 1-2-3 Magic.
I think the idea of taking everything works great with an older child - we had to do it with our daughter once - but she was 13, and understood consequences. A 4yo doesn't. They just can't think that far ahead. I don't think she really understands why she is getting/losing items. The cause/effect - they just aren't going to get it at that age.
YOu need to be consistent and calm. If you lose it - it scares her. Really. I know it seems like that is how she is pushing you,. But she is testing all her limits and boundaries to see what they are, and if you react differently to the same things she won't see any consistency to your behavior. It will be EXHAUSTING until she sees you mean it, but you need to set boundaries, and stick to them. Every time.
And the goal isn't to punish until she obeys. It is to teach her how to behave.
And 4 year olds are just hard anyway! Not quite a baby, not quite a big kid, and now she has a little sister and her schedule/routine has changed (if you are new to staying home) and it is confusing for her.
Big hugs and many prayers!
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mom2mpr
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Another vote for 4's being h-a-r-d! Even through 5. Hang in there!
Anne
I LOVED 1,2, and 3's--though my 3 year olds were ramping up for 4-I could tell
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juststartn
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I'll ditto what the other ladies have said, and also suggest that you get her OUT--to the park, around the block, where-ever--wear her out/down. Use them as teaching moments, too---the walks around the block give you lots and lots of "let's see what's new today!". It also gives YOU exercise, sunshine, and a chance for her to work off some of her energy out of doors and not on the furniture.
My youngest dd is 4. Mercy. 2s were EASY. Threes a bit harder. Fours have been...interesting. To say the least.
I try to wear her out as much as I can. Otherwise...ugh.
Rachel
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MaryatHome
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I concur with the advice to keep her busy and having some structure.
Might I recommend the book Playful Learning as a good place to begin?
This book was a lifesaver when mine were this age. There are lots of ideas in there for learning and activity. You might also find some other mothers to work with, like a little preschool coop. I did that, and it was fun for the moms and the kids.
The book isn't very expensive, and there are even some used copies for less than $1.00 (plus shipping, of course) on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Playful-Learning-Alternate-Approach-Pr eschool/dp/0912500301
Prayers for you as you make the transition.
Mary
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mary theresa
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I'm praying for you!
This is an amazing book! It has changed the way I approach my parenting.
I hope things get better soon!!
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Mary Theresa
mother to 3 little girls --March '06, Dec '07 and Jan '10
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Michaela
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How is everything going, Erika?
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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Mackfam
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I'm glad you bumped, Michaela! I was wondering as well!
How are things going, Erika? 
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
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domchurch3
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I want to say that I agree with everyone saying that the 4th year is hard. My only child just turned 6 and I can't believe the difference and the total joy it is to be around her. I agree that consistency is key. Sometimes it seemed like desirable behaviors would never click but now it seems as though we're finally enjoying the fruits of our labors for those first years of her life. I ditto all the above recommendations but I also want to recommend the Popcak's book, Parenting With Grace. Read the chapter for her age group. One thing that really worked for us was making her re-do any undesirable behavior. We would show her the appropriate behavior and have her copy it. This works as a consequence as well and I can't tell you what a blessing this technique has been for our entire family. The child 's brain actually gets rewired so that the more desirable behavior becomes a habit that replaces the undesirable behavior.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Losing my everloving mind...
