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Ruth
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First, a little background. We don't have cable tv and no longer allow sleepovers. My mom and my brothers are not practicing Catholics. They don't support how we are raising our children and are VERY outspoken about it.
Yesterday, while we were at my mom's house, the kids were watching Nickelodeon in the family room, which they know is not allowed.  I walked in and saw a scene where a teenage couple was kissing, and I don't mean a short little kiss. Right away I told my girls, "Oh my goodness! This is not an appropriate show to watch. You know you're not allowed to watch this. We need to turn off the tv." My nephews, 10 and 12, looked very confused, but the girls turned off the tv and I walked back into the kitchen where my mom and my brothers were finishing their lunch. My 14dd followed me.
My brother overheard what happened and immediately chastised me for sheltering our kids and not allowing them to see what's going on in the real world. He said if we don't let our kids see what's out there, they will go find it on their own and are going to rebel. He asked me if I saw a difference in his 16 year old daughter and our girls. They are all great kids, even though his girls have always had cable tv and gone to public school all their lives. They're not sheltered from the real world and both his girls, 19 and 16 have turned out great. They really are very sweet and respectful girls. He said it all comes down to how the parents relate to their children, not by keeping them from the world.
Of course, all this was said right in front of our 14dd and my mom kept saying to Bernie and me how right my brother was. He asked our 14dd if what she had just seen on tv was wrong, and if she would ever behave this way. Of course she said no, but would she say otherwise? He said there is no difference in our kids. So I'm sitting there doubting my self. We went through public schools, had tv and were raised without religion. It was only after the 3 of us graduated from high school that we went to church on our own. My brother said I turned out well despite our upbringing.
So what's the difference? Why bother?
He told me yesterday that he reads my blog, so last night I wrote a post about the virtue of chastity hoping he would read it. It was just quotes from the catechism, although I wish I could write my thoughts about it on the blog. I was inspired while praying the rosary after everyone had gone to bed. It made me feel so much better, but it was so awful sitting there speechless, not knowing what to say to him. I wasn't able to defend our choices while our 14dd sat there listening to them.
My family always knows just what to say to us to make us doubt ourselves.
I guess I needed to vent.
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Ruth
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PDyer
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I'll be watching this thread with interest. We've had much the same conversation with members of our extended family. I find it very difficult to maintain even the desire to have a relationship with people who take our parenting decisions as a personal affront, have no restraint about telling us about it and perceive much of what we say and do through that lens. Ugh.  My daughter is calling, must go!
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Patty
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CrunchyMom
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Of course, what choice do you have in defending yourself in that position? Your daughter is right there, and while I'm sure your brother's children are fine, what are you supposed to say if they are not? Does he really expect you to rail in on his daughters?
I had my own altercation last night with family; so, I'm there with you. It is very challenging to be in that situation since it seems ime that most people can dish it, but they can't take it. We would never be the ones to initiate a personal criticism of someone else's parenting (or other personal choice) so we end up always on the defensive.
I have to think that most people give absolutely no thought to what it would be to have the shoe on the other foot.
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Lindsay
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SusanMc
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I too belong to a family with varying religious and moral views. I find that for the sake of family harmony it is important to uphold our standards while being VERY careful not to put ourselves in a judging position. Over the years I've learned that our actions speak much more convincingly than our words. Mutual respect goes a long way.
In the example you cite, while I applaud you for reminding your daughters that they were watching something inappropriate, I think perhaps turning off the TV was a bit much. You were in someone else's home and there were other kids who were watching too. It probably felt to your family as if you were undermining your brother's judgements and parenting choices by doing so and opened the door for "discussion" of your divergent views.
That said, in the future, if your family openly questions your parenting decisions in front of your kids, perhaps you can something like: "While you and I certainly have different views on certain childrearing topics, I think we both agree that it is important that we encourage all our kids to respect their parents. If you want to have a discussion about parenting, let's do it when the kids aren't within earshot."
For your own personal peace of mind remember that if you know that what you are doing is right, what your brother or mother think or say doesn't make it any less right.
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mama251ders
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Oh, I know how you feel! We battle this on both sides of the family and it is always a challenge. It makes me want to skip just about every family event so I don't have to listen to everyone make their point. My husband's family is soooo into TV. His mother is a librarian, for crying out loud, who brings home DVD's instead of books when we visit. His second sister is just about as vain and materialistic as you can get and insists on going on and on and on about how pretty and skinny she is right in front of my innocent dds .
I don't know how to bring a solution to this, I wish I did. Wouldn't it be great to wave a proverbial magic wand and make everyone respect the wishes and decisions we have made?
Blessings,
Betsie
PS And my second niece decided to take matters into her own hands and introduce my oldest dd to Hannah Montana! Agh! And then they watched High School Musical! Oh the agony! 
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Michaela
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Ruth wrote:
| So what's the difference? Why bother? |
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(as a side note: anyone else hate it when you type up a thoughtful response, only to hit the wrong button and it disappears?!  )
We just keep on doing what we know is best for our family, even if it's different than the next family (who will raise wonderful children, too). There are no guarantees for the family that is doing a "perfect" job or the family who tries but fails somewhere along the way.
Interesting topic for discussion, Ruth. I'd love to hear what others have to say on this.
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PDyer
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Michaela wrote:
We just keep on doing what we know is best for our family, even if it's different than the next family (who will raise wonderful children, too). There are no guarantees for the family that is doing a "perfect" job or the family who tries but fails somewhere along the way.
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I know I've certainly failed along the way already, and I'm just getting started. What is most important (saying this to myself!!) is to do what we think is best for our family, taking the static we receive to prayer, to get His opinion on the matter, and pressing on from there.
Now only if I could figure out how to respond in the moment... 
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lapazfarm
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Ruth wrote:
My brother said I turned out well despite our upbringing.
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Well, that says it all right there, doesn't it? I think that is the silliest argument I've ever heard. Is it the best a parent can do to hope their children do well "despite" their upbringing?
When people challenge the way I raise my kids (which rarely happens) I just tell them that I respect their parenting decisions, and they should respect mine. End of discussion.
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CrunchyMom
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I do think these things are worth the bother. Why bother eating healthy food when I know that our 93 year old neighbor lives off of oreos and tv dinners? He's been healthy, right, so good food doesn't make a difference?
I converted to Catholicism, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't work to raise our children as Catholics or to have a strong Catholic identity just because there are examples of people who were raised without religion or Protestants or as nominal Catholics who have come to embrace the fullness of the faith.
So, I don't think we can compare our choices too much. It is fine to look to other families as examples and for guidance to a certain extent, but for all the examples of great kids in a given circumstance, there are examples of lost ones as well.
My husband is the youngest of 12--12 people raised by the same parents and yet, who could have guessed there were as many ways to raise a family. We relate to some moreso than others and can see positive and negative affects in some of the different choices made. Some of them rebelled against the "conservative" way they were raised and are now more liberal Catholics, others "rebelled" and are more traditional, and there are all those in betweens, too! I think, like the above post said, we all just pray and do our best!
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Roma
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| Posted: May 12 2008 at 12:28pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| In the example you cite, while I applaud you for reminding your daughters that they were watching something inappropriate, I think perhaps turning off the TV was a bit much. You were in someone else's home and there were other kids who were watching too. It probably felt to your family as if you were undermining your brother's judgements and parenting choices by doing so and opened the door for "discussion" of your divergent views. |
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i agree with this. it is your job to remove your daughter from the room, not to parent your brother's children in his house.
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Ruth
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Roma wrote:
Quote:
| In the example you cite, while I applaud you for reminding your daughters that they were watching something inappropriate, I think perhaps turning off the TV was a bit much. You were in someone else's home and there were other kids who were watching too. It probably felt to your family as if you were undermining your brother's judgements and parenting choices by doing so and opened the door for "discussion" of your divergent views. |
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i agree with this. it is your job to remove your daughter from the room, not to parent your brother's children in his house.
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Just to correct myself, it was not my brother's house, it was my mother's. She knows how we feel about tv and will turn it off when we're there.
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Paula in MN
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lapazfarm wrote:
Well, that says it all right there, doesn't it? I think that is the silliest argument I've ever heard. Is it the best a parent can do to hope their children do well "despite" their upbringing?
When people challenge the way I raise my kids (which rarely happens) I just tell them that I respect their parenting decisions, and they should respect mine. End of discussion. |
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I agree 100%.
In my own situation, our families are very supportive of our decisions and have never questioned our "rules". However, when dd9 and ds6 go to Dad's? They come home telling me about sleepovers and icky movies, using new 'cool' words, and acting like hooligans!
I don't have a lot of advice, Ruth, just trust in yourself and in Jesus and Mary. You are doing what you are supposed to be doing!
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LucyP
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Ouch! So sorry Ruth. I think, as a parent, you have a right to make the choices you make. I find being a mother so scary as it is (will my children hate me, rebel against Christ etc?) and being second-guessed and debated with is just so destroying of peace.
May God give you peace and guidance.
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Cay Gibson
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Ruth,
I think you did need to vent and you're venting to the right people.
And I know how you feel (though we are a television family here) about having to defend our parenting choices in front of family.
I was faced with a little of the same thing this past weekend and blogged my thoughts.
Not sure if it will serve your thoughts but incase it does:
Embracing Our Position on Calvary
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ALmom
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We have supportive families for which I am thankful. Even those of my family who think in very similar ways to me, still had differing rules about different things.
There are always those who have different rules. My family is less strict about hand washing than someone else's. We don't watch TV, etc. It is good to know that parents are obligated to make decisions about what is prudent and is not prudent to allow for their own children. Children are obligated to respect the parents - whether the parents are present or not. We set up a rule - no watching of movies, TV or playing computer games in anyone else's home without specific permission for a specific show. I know some parents laugh when we have something we are watching and I double check with the parents before I put something in - but those are our house rules. My children will call me from another family's home. At my folks house, I enlist the older ones to help me distract the younger ones as my dad may be watching news or some other thing or other members of the family choose to visit this way.
In your situation, I would have quietly called my children aside, told them quietly and outside the earshot of anyone else, that this was not an appropriate show for them to watch and that they should find something else to do in some other room. Then if they asked about the boys, I would have said that that was something that the boys parents needed to address with them in the way they saw fit. These are our rules and for this reason - state your reasons, citing your understanding of church guidelines etc.
If I felt my brother was unaware of what was on and I could make a difference by quietly calling it to his attention, then I would. If I knew that bringing it up would only make things harder, then I would remain silent and pray silently for the other children.
You'd be surprised at how the silent actions of you and your children may awaken a sense of inappropriateness with something when direct confrontation only fosters defensiveness.
If anyone brought it up publicly afterwards, then your respect for your brother as parent is an example and you are simply asking for the same freedom to parent as you see fit.
When people came over to our house and were in the habit of turning on TV without permission, we could operate one of two ways:
1) We "disabled" the TV. We had a very old manually programmable TV that we could easily make not work on every channel - or we could disconnect it and folks would just assume it was not working. We did this for my elderly grandmother who was the kindest and most lovely lady in the world and it was better than embarrassing her in our house.
2) We could simply let folks know our house rules. This was probably easiest to do when there was a friend of our children over as our children could let them know kindly without embarrassment, "Oh, sorry, my mom doesn't let us turn on the TV without permission."
If there were lots of children or such where it would be hard for a family to supervise or where people would likely have their feelings hurt, then we could do 1, just like we remove knick knack temptations if we know toddlers will be visiting.
Just be creative and kind.
In someone else's house my children had to abide by my instructions. If the other children simply didn't want to do anything but forbidden things, then my children simply would need to come home. (I don't recall this ever happening. The general rule of finding something the guest likes applied as my children would simply say no thank you to computer games, TV or other such suggestions and we taught them to offer a variety of acceptable choices to find something mutually agreeable.
Now it did help that my children played in the open and never in someone else's home without me being there too until we knew with certainty that they could follow our rules and any special rules of the host house.
We allow a certain amount of running in our house - but most folks will not allow it in theirs. My children know not to be wild in someone else's house and they know to cease when I tell them to find something calmer to do.
I think the whole situation is a opportunity to teach respect and charity in your dealings with others without compromising your own standards.
Janet
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PDyer
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ALmom wrote:
| If anyone brought it up publicly afterwards, then your respect for your brother as parent is an example and you are simply asking for the same freedom to parent as you see fit. |
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If that's making that sort of simple statement is all it takes for others, my dh and I seem to be in a very unusual, difficult situation, or we're doing something wrong... 
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Patty
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juststartn
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I have been told (in the presence of my dc) that they are going to be freaks, and losers, and why don't I get with it?
Ugh!!!!
Thankfully, we've moved half a continent away from the worst "offender", but still. Its a mess.
I don't have any advice. To be honest. We stopped letting the dc spend any one-on-one time with this relative without one of us there, and thankfully, now that they are so far away, we'll be lucky to see them once a year, at most.
Its hard to say that about my own relative. Personally, I'd rather that they were all devout Catholics (I'm the only Catholic--a convert--in my entire family), and that they could all at least respect our right to parent our dc as we see fit.
But hey, it beats the conversations about "using common sense" when it comes to having (more) dc. Makes me want to scream. But I don't. I try to avoid bringing things up, while still letting them know that we will leave ourselves open to more dc, and their opinion really doesn't matter about it one way or another (I try to be nice, though). Yet another reason living half a continent away is a good thing...
I know that this didn't answer your question/s. Its difficult. I know that simply respecting other's boundaries has not resulted in them respecting mine. There are some things worth fighting for, and frankly, parenting my dc the way DH and I see fit is one of them.
Rachel (who just tries to minimize our exposure to certain people and their negative attitudes as much as possible)
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Marybeth
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I'm sorry why is your brother questioning your child in front of you?
ugh..family..you love them.. yet they can make you see red in a matter of moments...
I would talk to your dd this week about what was discussed and tell her your views and etc. about the show, what her uncle and grandmother said.
Pray to everyone's guardian angel before you have family time together. I am big into bringing board games, etc. to family functions so no tv or movies get put on while we are all together. I can't stand holidays with all we do to get ready and then Nick Jr. and Cartoon Network all afternoon! ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel for you. I think you and Bernie need to come up with a respectful way of ending conversations and firmly telling people to butt out of your parenting decisions. When you come up with something let me know...I have a family reunion I will need some help with!
Mb
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chicken lady
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I am with MaryBeth, I am shocked that ANYONE would question your child in front of you! You hang in there Ruth, you are a great mom and an inspiration to many.
Why bother,you ask? Because their precious souls are at stake, and we, as parents, will be held accountable!!!! Be at peace Ruth, Our LAdy is guiding you.
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SallyT
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Praying for you. We experience some of the same things, and we're also the only Catholics in our family. Family members love to bring up whatever unflattering newspaper article has just run about the Pope or the Church . . . make it known that they don't like my kids wearing t-shirts with Catholic slogans . . . my 14yo daughter told me that her grandmother "doesn't like to see me wearing a crucifix or anything like that." At Easter the call was issued for "someone" to lead us in a blessing, which usually means us, since we're the only regular blessers of food; this was quickly amended to "a NON-SECTARIAN blessing," as we got ready to cross ourselves and say our usual blessing. *sigh*
It all makes me heavy-hearted sometimes. I really didn't mean to vent quite that much myself, but just to say that I feel for you and will keep you (all) in my prayers.
Sally
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Help in persevering with our parenting
