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Bella
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| Posted: Feb 02 2008 at 2:06pm | IP Logged
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After all of the books I've read on parenting, I'm at a loss. Our DD who is 11 has been telling little lies. Never anything big-but enough to have us now lose our trust in her.
A little history: She suffers from Generalized Anxiety Disorder(GAD) that was just dxed this past late summer, and is receiving Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT). Due to the fact that since before she was born, I have fought Invisible Chronic Illnesses(ICI), I feel somwhow responsible for her problems. I know my parenting hasn't been what I would like it to be. The last year has been so difficult. I understand she is crying out for help. DH and I have talked to her till we are blue in the face. I am scared that she is lying at such an older age-she never did when she was younger.
Here is an example of her lie today: Both DC lost their priveledge to watch TV for a month(it was already *very* limited). They are a week away from the end of their consequence. This AM, DH was doing a spinning class at the 'Y', and I was having a hard time geting out of bed due to several nights of insomnia from a host of things. The DC had been up for about an hour when I came downstairs. The TV ws turned to the weather channel. I simply stated that the TV was to be turned off. The reply was that DH had it on, and they hadn't turned it off. I immediately hit the "Last" button on the remote-and it was turned to a major network with the show "Hannah Montana" on. I turned to DD, and she began to say how she was about to tell me. I turned the TV off, and made out a *long* list of chores for both of them to do. I then went upstairs to cry. I feel so defeated. DH thinks we need to be patient and continue to talk to her. I am doubtful it will help.
Any suggestions?
Thanks so much,
Christy
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 04 2008 at 9:34am | IP Logged
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Christy,
I watched this all weekend hoping for replies. We are in a similar situation with our 11yo. I understand your angst and worry - I'm right there!
Let's pray for each other, that we can model our motherhood after the Blessed Mother and offer the guidance these girls need. I'm praying for our girls too! That their hearts would turn to honesty and purity!
I have only one insight to offer. We saw this coming. I began to read a lot, and found one of the most helpful books for me to be The Temperament God Gave You. It is written by a Catholic husband and wife team. It is balanced, and I found it to be extremely helpful! I learned so much about my own personality and personality traits, as well as everyone else in my family. It shed light on the *why* of so many things. In this particular case with our dd, it helped me to see that she is the type personality that is very loyal, generous, and over-eager to please, doesn't like confrontation, doesn't like rocking the boat. In the last 2 lies we've caught her in, she was specifically looking for ways to ***NOT*** displease her dad and I. That's not to say every lie is motivated by (in her mind, her logic) this greater good - there are those right in your face lies like, "did you brush your teeth?" "Yes." "But your toothbrush is dry!"
I'm only offering that looking into my dd's personality has brought some explanations into some of her behavior, but like you, I'm worried. Wondering where we went wrong, and how to gently steer her back on track.
So far, we have punished, but only to fit the crime - nothing over the top. I have really been gently encouraging and helping to remind her to keep up her daily prayers. I know from personal experiences and confessions that when daily prayer takes a dive, so does charity. I'm trying to set her up for success, so in a situation where I suspect she will be tempted to lie, I try to pre-empt the lie be reminding her that her answer will have consequences, that she is unconditionally loved no matter what, and that I will be far more pleased with an honest answer than an untruth - even if that honest answer means a punishment for her.
I don't know if this helps at all. I really pray that a wise mother will jump in here and offer us some guidance and reassurance. Until then, I'll be praying for you and your dd! 
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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mama251ders
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| Posted: Feb 04 2008 at 10:59am | IP Logged
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I guess that I would first try to get at the root of the problem. Why does your daughter feel that need to lie? I have found that I often create the situation myself when I back my kids into a corner. I recently read that the only real conflict that exists between parents and children is between the strategies we use to get our needs met. I have observed that my lie-prone child only resorts to the lies when he perceives that I have left him no other choice. When he has an agenda and I have an agenda and they conflict, we do much better to work out a compromise rather than for me to impose my agenda just because I am the parent (this is something that I am constantly working on and one of my biggest parenting challenges!). I hate it when other people do that to me and if I find myself in that situation, I will usually use just about any means to get out of it. I can only imagine how a 9yo who has much less control over his environment feels when I impose my agenda on him without consent. Now, don't get me wrong, our house is not a kid-run zone by any stretch! But on my very best days when I am able to think outside of myself (few and far between, but I'm working on it!) I find that we have much less conflict and much less lying. I also find that if I press my lie-prone son for answers, it only exacerbates the problem. The more space and slack in the reigns that I give him, the happier and more peaceful we all are. He comes back to me on his own to hash things out if I let him do it in his own time. It is very frustrating when I feel out of control, which I often do when ds is in lying mode. I hope this helped somewhat, I always feel funny giving advice when we have so much to deal with ourselves! I will keep your family in my prayers!
Blessings,
Betsie
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Wife to Oliver
Mama to 5 Wonders
Benny, Braidon, Olivia, Anna and Saragh
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Bella
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| Posted: Feb 04 2008 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
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Ladies, thankyou for your replies. 
Jennifer-I was just reading part of that book at my sister's home, and just today I ordered it off of cathswap!  I am so excited! I originally ordered it to better understand my relationship with DH, but like you, my sister said it would benefit *all* relationships in our family.Like you, I have been gently encouraging DD to deepen and stretch herself in our faith. More prayers,frequent confessions,etc.. Anyway,I too will pray for you and your DD.Thankyou!!
Betsie-Oh yes Betsie! Can we say Power Struggle??  I have many theories on why she is lying. I do need to rethink my approach with her. She is going through so many changes, and the atmosphere in our home lately has been increasingly tense. I believe her behavior is in direct response to lack of feeling in control herself. I do often back her into a corner. I am often either too strict-or too lenient. I do think I set her up to lie, but I often feel so torn up about whether or not I am raising her to have strong virtues, a good character,etc. Please don't feel funny giving me advice! I asked for it! Thanks for your prayers-I will pray for you too.
Off to bed...
God Bless,
Christy
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Joelle
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| Posted: Feb 04 2008 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
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Wow! I am not kidding when I say that my dh & I had a major discussion with my 11 yo son about the exact SAME thing yesterday! This is the third lie we have caught him in in about as many months. He also is a people-pleaser, my oldest & tries to be perfect in every way. Two of the lies have been about school work--saying it is completed when it is not, so he can attend Scouts (funny, isn't there something in the Scout Oath about being trustworthy ). Each time, we have explained the gravity of lying, not only from his standpoint (after this third time, he is grounded from all scout & friends activities, as well as tv and computer for a month, until his school habits have been re-established), but also how this sin affects his soul and others. We take him to confession right away (within a day), and pray his discussion with Father helps. He has also written Bible verses regarding trustworthiness, though clearly it did not deter him from repeating the offense.
We do discuss that this temptation (and falling into sin) is directly from Satan and he wasn't created to please Satan, but to live for Christ and while we all fall and are forgiven, we must cooperate with the graces from the sacraments to "sin no more and avoid the near occasion." DH also required him this time to write me a letter of apology and also devise a plan to catch up on the work he hadn't been doing.
And finally, we always stress (because he is such a sweet boy who does desire to please--and do not want to beat him down) that he is a GOOD boy, God made him GOOD and we know he is good and we love him, but that he made a bad choice. We tell him that we forgive him, but he will still have consequences for the bad choice and we are disappointed in the choice he made in this instance.
I also think of Dr. Ray Guarendi saying, "you control his world--shut him down." This is a serious sin and my consequences are nothing compared to where a habit of lying will lead him. Another thing Dr. Ray says is that if we do not discipline him, the world will. At least we do it out of love and our sole desire is for Heaven for them. My prayers are with you as well, this is tough!
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God Bless, Joelle
Mom to 7: Boy (96), Girls (00, 02, 04), Boy (05), Girl (07), Boy (09)
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humanaevitae
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| Posted: Feb 05 2008 at 10:37pm | IP Logged
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I was prone to lying as a child and so are my children.
We have found it helpful to tell the child not to answer our question right away. They are given a few minutes to think about how they want to answer our question "did you do this" while we go and focus on something else for a minute. We do remind them about the importance of their honor and integrity.
I think this helps because it allows the child to think carefully and not just give an impulsive answer. By giving them a few moments of time by themselves it seems to take some of the pressure off; no parent staring them in the face.
The children understand that if they then tell the truth, they will be disciplined fairly. (we take care to not make it excessive because it is easy to sin and we do not want the children to despair.) If we find out they lied when we ask them again, they will be disciplined much more severely. The consequence is always much worse for a lie vs a minor infraction.
I have seen real progress in our children since we started this method.
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Nicole-Zane 10, Elizabeth 7, Xavier 4, and John Patrick 2
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Bella
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| Posted: Feb 11 2008 at 2:49pm | IP Logged
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Joelle and Nicole-Thanks for taking the time to reply. 
I really appreciate what you've both shared. I have done a little of what you both do, and I think I need to just keep perservering. We did have a pretty big discussion today about the fact that DD has lost most of our trust...and how sad,wrong and frustrating that is. We also talked about how respect and trust are two things that we know she wants-everyone wants-but they are not just given,instead they are earned.
Thanks a bunch, and God Bless!
Christy
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 7:48am | IP Logged
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Christy,
This has been very helpful for me as well - thank you for starting this thread.
It seems perseverance, patience and trying to set our lying prone children up for telling the truth (rather than backing them into a corner) are keys here.
Also, I think frequent reception of the Sacraments will be helpful.
Continuing to pray for this intention of yours (and mine )
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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wwandsprmn
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 5:06pm | IP Logged
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I went through this for an extended time with my dd, we tried lots of different punitive things, and none worked. It actually got worse.
We did finally break through when I totally changed tactics so I have a couple thoughts to offer. The first is that the children need to really understand that they will always be met with discipline and mercy. I tend to say preemptively, "There is NOTHING you can tell me that will make me love you less. You could burn down my house, and while I might be angry or disappointed...and uh, homeless! You would help me rebuild it and I would still love you."
I think a month is a very long time to suffer a consequence, especially when they are young. I prefer shock and awe, ended swiftly.
I also think it is a mistake to ask questions you already know the answer to. An example: I might have said before hitting the "last" button to check, "I think you were probably watching a program, when you know you are grounded. I am going to check the last button. Would you like to tell me anything first?" (not a criticism, only a suggestion - I know it's different in the moment)
I think it helps to give them LOTS of opportunities to practice telling the truth. Then affirming their truthfulness by saying things like: It feels SO good to trust you! I feel so honored that you trust me enough to tell me the truth. I am so lucky to have a little girl/boy who has such integrity! I have the most honest little girl in the whole world! Catch them telling the truth about mundane things and take note.
Another issue is to not show them anger and frustration, but let them see your pain and sadness. If it makes you cry let them see that, and when they ask tell them it makes you so sad when they sin, and tell lies. I will often say, "Honey, I'm sorry but I am so upset about being lied to that I do not feel like listening to the tv right now(or reading a story, or going to the park, playing baby dolls with you, whatever).
At one point we used a privilege ladder and that also worked very well. 10 had all privileges then as they dropped they lost them...down to zero which was boot camp/not fun/extra chores. I put it on a cork board and then used a push pin to track their place.
I'm a fan of Love and Logic, great book with specific lines to use in the moment when you really want to find the duct tape.
Hang in there, this can really pass and the child can be better off for having conquered this potential pitfall early on in life.
Blessings,
Robin
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Bella
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| Posted: Feb 13 2008 at 4:26pm | IP Logged
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Robin-Wow! You have given me some awesome advice! Thanks for sharing what eventually worked for you. I am afraid(did I already mention this?) that if I punish DD more for lying that it will just push her into being sneaky. However, I can see the "Logic" in your approach. Just today I tried one of your suggestions, and I was amazed at how effective it was. I have heard good things about _Love and Logic_. I know the authors are quite controversial, but this particular book seems to be a good one.
God Bless,
Christy
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: How do *you* deal with a lying DC?
