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Zeliemum
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| Posted: Jan 02 2008 at 6:53pm | IP Logged
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It is hard to image that after 8 children I am still struggling with feeding but I am. I think it is that I don't get the attachment right, the discomfort is extreme.
Generally when I have feed babies it takes up to 3 months to get it right and then some have just been very uncomfortable the whole way through.
I am currently expressing when the discomfort is too painful and comp feeding when I don't have the milk supply. I am putting baby to the breast most of the time but allowing myself a couple of feeds rest every day or two to give my breasts a rest. I'm on blood pressure tablets that have also aided in lack of milk supply. Augustine is putting on weight and is happy and satisfied when at the breast but I am nearly in tears throughout the whole feed.
I'm saying Hail Mary's the whole time and praying to Our Lady to help me get good attachment. For now it is not happening.
Any advice/prayers will be gratefully accepted.
God Bless
Chemai
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teachingmyown
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Chemai,
I usually have a difficult time with pain, but only for a week or two. Because I anticipate it, I try extra hard to get the right positioning and latch. Seth (two weeks tomorrow) has been a great nurser but I am still experiencing pain when he latches on. This is much better than my last baby who took weeks to learn to latch on and it was a horrible time.
Two things that really help me with positioning:
1- a nursing pillow to raise the baby up level with your breast. Just cradling the baby won't get him close enough to get the right angle. Youwant his whole body turned toward you, not just his head.
2- instead of holding baby in a traditional nursing hold where you support thebreast with the opposite hand, I support the breast with the same hand (right breast-right hand) and support baby's head with opposite hand. This way I have better control over his initial latching on. I wait for him to open his mouth wide and quickly push his head toward the breast.
I hope this helps a little. I know it is so frustrating when you just want to enjoy this time. My prayers are with you. I will offer up my pain when Seth nurses for you and Augustine.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Mary Chris
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If it is at all possible to hire a lactation consultant, I strongly recommend it. With my first I got off to a horrible start.......an hour with the LC and we were good to go.......
If that is not a possibility can you connect with a La Leche League group in your area, sometimes leaders will make house calls.
You have my prayers.
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Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
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Barbara C.
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I had a rough time with my last baby, and I thought I would have it so much easier. But I made one big but simple blunder. I didn't make sure that the baby was belly to belly with me. I was used to nursing an older baby who already new how to latch properly and could twist their body away, but a newborn really needs to be belly to belly. So I would make sure that the baby's front is all the way against you. Secondly, my friend who's an official LLL consultant suggested using my thumb to gently push/pull the baby's chin down forcing her to open wider and do not let her suck unless the entire areola (or as much as possible) is in the mouth.
Those are the lessons I learned. Of course, who's to say what kind of problems I'll have with the next one. I just hope I don't have the horrible engorgement again.
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Barbara
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Maddie
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Does he have a high palate? If so, it may be hard for him to press the ni**le up to get what he needs. A lactation consultant discovered my 7th baby was born with this; it took me 6-8 weeks to train her to nurse properly. I had to pump and give her the milk in a bottle, it really helped reestablish my milk supply (I used a hospital pump-rented).I was in horrible pain each time she nursed. The Bre*st Friend nursing pillow was a life saver too.
I prayed to St. Therese the Little Flower's mother,Zelie, she was unable to nurse her babies. The baby before St. Therese was named Therese too; she was given to a wet nurse who neglected her and the baby died of starvation.
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kathleenmom
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Chemai,
One thing that helped with my babies was to make sure they had a real "mouthful"...making sure that the latch was not just on the nipple, but that the baby had a good deal of the aureola. If that baby had a "shallow" latch, you'd have to gently break the suction and try again...sometimes several times until baby had it right.
Also, some of mine liked to suck their bottom lip in instead of it being flanged nicely. I would just gently put my finger under there and pluck it out so it wasn't tucked in.
If there is a LLL near where you live, I'd give them a call or email.
God bless and I'm praying for this to all become easier.
Kathleen
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Jenny
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I second or 3rd contacting a LLL. I have with each of mine b/c they all nurse differently. One time, I let the baby keep her arm next to her when nursing instead of having her wrap it around me, big mistake...lots of latch on pain involving cracked nipples  My boy, I'm not sure what his deal was, but they suggested to let him suck on my finger for a minute to get him started, then switch to the breast. Whatever that was, it worked. I have a friend who realized after 3, that when she sat on her couch to nurse, she sat lower and this somehow caused a very poor latch, so she always had to use a nursing pillow.
OL of LaLeche...pray for us!
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Jenny
Chris' wife and momma of 7. My blog: The Littlest Way--Bible Journaling, Inspiring Bible Quotes, Daily Affirmations, Prayer Journaling & photography
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Zeliemum
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| Posted: Jan 03 2008 at 7:12am | IP Logged
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Maddie - I have rented an electric pump the same as they use here in the hospitals, it has been a really big help as I am expressing and feeding from a bottle when I can't handle him feeding from me. I used one for my last boy (a premmie) for nearly 5 months so I know that I have that back up to keep the milk supply going well for some time. It is the best investment at this point for sure.
Molly - The nursing pillow sounds very interesting. I use one pillow but still find that his head slips down and this could be one of the problems. So I will look into that very soon and see if somewhere in my town there is a supplier. I find that I do hold my breast with the same hand that I am feeding from, the problem is letting go. I find that I have to hold myself the whole time otherwise I can't tolerate the feed.
Barbara - I will try forcing his chin to go down a little further, he does open up but maybe I rush things a little and don't get enough of the area inside his mouth.
Mary Chris - Where we hired the pump from they have a lactation consultant that generally checks up on the Mum's who hire the pumps. One phoned the other day with my dh answering the phone telling her I was doing beautifully. I don't know where he got that from, just trying to be positive I suppose. Well I think I will be ringing her back asking for HELP.
Kathleen, I think the call is necessary. Thank you for any prayers.
Jenny - Thank you for the back up on the pillow and call. I hope something will help.
I was so upset this afternoon that I said to my dh that I was on the verge of wanting to bottle feed, but I will persevere and hope that Our Lady and Zelie can help me from heaven.
I have prayed to Zelie Martin before for my feeding. At the moment I’m praying to Our Lady of Perpetual Help but will start a novena to St Therese tonight for her and her holy mother's intercession. Thank you for the reminder.
Thank you ladies for all your helpful suggestions. They have been very useful.
God Bless to you all and successful feeding.
Chemai 
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10 Bright Stars
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Chemai,
A quick thought is to make sure you don't have thrush or something like that going on. It is possible that the baby might not have symptoms, and you will. I have had it with ALL of my babies, except the twins born by c-section. Anyway, the pain shoots right into your back and also, it makes the "nurser" very sore, as if there is glass in it etc. Just a thought to check into.
Also, it always hurts the first 2-3 weeks when I start nursing again, even though I have 8 too. Hang in there. They seem to get used to it over time. With so many, it may be hard to have a quiet, relaxing place to deal with the pain. I know that when I was nursing Gabrielle, who is now 5 months, with a terrible case of thrush etc., the twins would jump all over me and make it MUCH worse. I had to give her a bottle or two in the beginning because I had trouble with my supply I think due to stress/pain etc with those little tumblers all over me. Letting yourself get engorged is a major thing to avoid. Hot showers prior to or warm washclothes placed on the sides while nursing seemed to give me some relief. And try to nurse while lying down with baby beside you and relax. This position always seems to work well unless your baby is super tiny. (Which I am assuming he is.) I also used the football hold a lot with the twins, none of the other "regular" babies, but it seemed to help to reposition sometimes. As long as he is getting fed though, I would relax! Drink plenty of fluids, and make sure to empty as fully as possible either with the machine or with baby. I have found it is not as easy to empty fully with the machine. (Had to use it as first with the twins since the c-section was making the milk supply take it's time coming in!!!)
Good luck!!!1
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Mom of 11 blessings:
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Taffy
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Chemai,
I have no helpful advice on the breastfeeding and am praying that things will improve for you.
But, I just wanted to mention that it is possible to pump long-term and feed only breastmilk to your baby. I've never been able to get the hang of breastfeeding but have been able to avoid formula quite a bit. With my last baby, we managed 9 months and I'm hoping with my current baby to be able to pump for her for at least a year. It is more work but the positives of my baby being healthy (she had trouble with weight gain when only breastfeeding) and knowing that my baby is still getting the benefits of breastmilk, I'm happy with it. She hasn't had any formula yet! I also try to be the only one feeding her so that we can have some of the "cuddle time" benefits of breastfeeding. She's doing fabulous!
I'm not sure how this affects return to fertility but my cycle hasn't returned yet and I'm 4 months postpartum.
Just wanted to mention this as an alternative should the breastfeeding not work out for you but I'm hoping that my solution won't be necessary for you.
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Susan
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sjbacb
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Is not necessarily the best but definitely the cheapest and is what I used. BIG HELP!!!
Boppy Breastfeeding Pillow
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Shannon in MI
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Zeliemum
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Kim - I don't think I have thrush this time although I'm sure I have had it in the past.
Repositioning, I will definitely try - football hold may be good. At this point I am expressing and feeding from the bottle especially today - very, very sore, burning actually. Maybe tonight I might try again to put him on.
Susan - I have had to supplement some formula as my supply although no bad isn't up to his consumption yet. 4 months is great without formula - all breast milk, I would be happy with that and 9 months was a real blessing. I do hope I get it.
Shannon - A feeding pillow at this point is a must. I don't know what Australia has to offer as far as brands but I am going looking today.
Thanks Kim, Susan and Shannon.
This has been a real help from everyone not just with advice and prayer offers but with support and companionship - Thanks again.
God Bless
Chemai
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jdostalik
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Chemai,
Many prayers for you and little Augustine! I still remember the pain I had nursing my first one--I don't think we had our nursing relationship figured out until she was 2 months old...I will pray to St. Therese and her mother for you, too.
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Jennifer in TX
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Zeliemum
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| Posted: Jan 03 2008 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Jennifer.
That gives me a strong sense of hope.
Thank you especially for the prayers.
God Bless
Chemai
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Ruth
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Dear Chemai. You're in my prayers.
I had a very difficult time with my second baby. I almost gave up nursing, until a friend gave me a nursing pillow similar to this one. I'm sure there are amny other nursing pillows out there, but I wanted to let you know which one worked for me. Good luck and God bless you!
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aussieannie
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Chemai, if you are looking for feeding pillows, don't forget ebay Aus. Here is a link to quite a few and they are probably more reasonably priced than paying brand new prices. There seems to be a great variety of pillows...
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teachingmyown
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The "My Brest Friend" nursing pillow is the best because it straps around your waist so it doesn't slip down and the baby is supported right up to your breast. I am even able to get up to do something and not lose the proper nursing position. They now even sell an inflatable version.
Kathleen had said "One thing that helped with my babies was to make sure they had a real "mouthful"...making sure that the latch was not just on the nipple, but that the baby had a good deal of the aureola."
I don't know if this might be part of your problem, but for me I am so "well endowed"  that my babies just cannot get that good latch that LCs recommend. Their little mouths just aren't big enough.
As for having to keep supporting the breast while feeding, I have to do that for the first several weeks at least. If you can get the nursing pillow, it isn't that uncomfortable.Hereis a link for the pillow. I don't know if you can find it in Australia, but I hope so.
Many prayers coming!
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Zeliemum
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Thank you all.
I will get Scott to check all these links and we will come up with something. I haven't feed today yet but will tonight - I think. 
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MaryM
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teachingmyown wrote:
Kathleen had said "One thing that helped with my babies was to make sure they had a real "mouthful"...making sure that the latch was not just on the nipple, but that the baby had a good deal of the areola."
I don't know if this might be part of your problem, but for me I am so "well endowed" that my babies just cannot get that good latch that LCs recommend. Their little mouths just aren't big enough. |
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It isn't that they have to take in a large part of the areola because the areolar size varies so much from woman to woman, but that the baby does need to bypass the nipple and take in breast tissue (an amount that would be about the size of a US quarter in diameter). And more of the areola should be covered below the baby's lower lip than the upper. That is what is referred to as an A-symmetric latch. This helps to draw more breast tissue in so that the nipple is protected. There are some video clips for visualizing what I'm talking about on Dr. Jack Newman's site. This diagram is helpful as are the video clips in the Latching section.
-Check 1st Good Latch Poor Latch video clip to see why it makes a difference where baby is latched both for milk transfer and comfort.
-And First Latch video clip for achieving the A-symmetric latch
With a large or very firm breast (engorged) it is more challenging for a baby with a small mouth to take in the tissue beyond the nipple to any degree. Techniques that are used to aid this include softening the areolar tissue before baby latches (expressing/pumping milk, Reverse Pressure Softening) and compressing the breast to form "sandwich." (Think how you need to squish down a big hoagie sandwich in order to take a bigger mouthful.) The “U” hold is used to make this when the baby is held across your lap (in the cradle, cross cradle or side lying position) and the “C” hold is used for the football position.
Often there are physical or anatomic reasons for a poor latch. Especially when it occurs with several babies in same family despite good positioning and awareness of latch issues. Things like a predisposition to a high palate or short frenulum (the tissue that holds the tongue in place. There are also frenula that attach the lips to the base of the gums and those can affect latch. If those are discovered there are things to do to address that. Also there are nerves of the cranium that affect breastfeeding and experiences surround birth can impact those - the glossopharyngeal nerve (which controls the muscles of the pharynx), the vagus nerve (which controls the muscles of the soft palate), and the hypoglossal nerve (which controls the tongue muscle). Compression of any or all of these nerves can cause dysfunctional nursing (Hewitt 1999). There are some babies who are experiencing problems with nerves and their sucking is disorganized. Results are often seen with the use of cranial-sacral therapy in these cases.
I so pray for all you moms experiencing pain. I hope, too, that the root cause can be identified so that you get relief.
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ann@home
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Oh good, I was just going to link to the Jack Newman site, he is very good and I hope this info might help a bit.
Do you have La Leche League groups around your area? They will often come to your house to help.
Here is a list of Australia groups:
LLL groups
Not many, but it's a start.
I hear you about taking 3 mos to get things figured out, this happened with my oldest son. So frustrating!
Hang in there, you are a great mom to give your baby the best!
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Ann, Full-time Mama of a 10yr old Lego master, 7yr old DIVA, 4yr old King of the Mountain and one more in June '09!
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Trouble with breastfeeding
