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lapazfarm
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I have never had a child quite like this, so I am a bit at a loss.
As most of you know, my 2 grandsons have lived with us off and on most of their lives. The times when they were with their mother were, quite frankly, dreadful for them. But they are with us permanently now, thank God.
Anyway, the 4 yo is doing pretty well, but the 2yo is about to drive me to the brink of insanity.
He rages, he screams, he throws things, he hits. Multiple times every day. He has a huge sense of entitlement, expecting everyone, including myself, to jump up and do his bidding immediately. Or else! His temper is quick and hot. He pitches high profile fits in public places over seemingly simple things (like I push the shopping cart the wrong way). When he fixates on something, there is no turning back. He will push until he gets what what he wants (for example, to watch a certain movie) or a battle ensues. He absolutely cannot de-escalate. It always ends in a rage. Non-compliant is putting it very mildly. To put it bluntly, he is a complete brat.
On the other hand, when he is happy he is sweet and golden. He is very bright (he has learned to name 15 birds by sight already)and is eager to learn.He devours knowledge at an alarming rate, making him both a challenge and a pleasure to school. He has a great sense of humor.
He is very attached to us and can be quite loving. But when he is in a bad mood, he will push away any attempt to comfort or console, much like an attachment disordered child would.
In other words, nothing I have experienced in 18 years of parenting has prepared me for this child.
I have tried being firm but kind, calm and cool,loving and sweet, stern, detached, you name it. Logical consequences, time-ins, time-outs, spankings, diversionary tactics... nothing works! His behavior just seems to be getting worse.
Help!
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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amyable
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| Posted: Dec 12 2007 at 11:28am | IP Logged
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*waiting here with pad and pencil*
Other than the attachment issue you noted (my 2yo wants hugs when upset) you have described my dd to a T.
No advice, just prayers!
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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mavmama
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Theresa,
Since he is attached to you, do you think the behavior comes from the attachment issues with his mom, but you are getting the rage? This is a hard place to be, I know so well. I will pray for you and you whole family. I know how it affects everyone.
May God bless you as you work to heal your little guy.
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Liz
Blessed by 4 wonders
dd11, dd911, ds9, ds8
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Taffy
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| Posted: Dec 12 2007 at 12:18pm | IP Logged
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Hugs Theresa! It sounds like you are earning some years off of purgatory!
My only thought at the moment might be to provide him with a detailed list of the order of events of the day. In the morning, let him know that first he'll get dressed, then eat breakfast, then brush his teeth...
Of course, you'll come up with your own schedule. 
And, this might be helpful for certain tasks as well. For example, at breakfast...
First we sit at the table.
Then we say grace.
Then we eat.
Then we put our empty dishes in the sink.
And, having regular structure and routine to his day should help too.
My reasoning in suggesting this is the guess that his biological mother didn't provide any sort of structure to his day - who knows when the next meal is coming, do we get dressed today? is she in a good mood or should we hide in bed? And, probably he was allowed to get away with whatever he wanted on mom's "good" days due to her feelings of guilt. He craves control over his environment because it was too chaotic for him to feel secure. Providing some structure and letting him know what's coming next will help him feel more secure.
Of course, he is most probably dealing with all sorts of other issues regarding his previous life. But, I do think that this should at least help. And, it goes without saying, that you will have to do your best to ensure that things happen in the order that you've told him it would.
Other than that, the only other ideas I have is stuff you already know about, consistent discipline and expectations for good behaviour. Of course, you probably knew about all the other stuff I just wrote about too...
Prayers heading your way!
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Susan
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Dec 12 2007 at 12:40pm | IP Logged
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Taffy wrote:
My reasoning in suggesting this is the guess that his biological mother didn't provide any sort of structure to his day - who knows when the next meal is coming, do we get dressed today? is she in a good mood or should we hide in bed? And, probably he was allowed to get away with whatever he wanted on mom's "good" days due to her feelings of guilt. He craves control over his environment because it was too chaotic for him to feel secure. Providing some structure and letting him know what's coming next will help him feel more secure.
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Taffy, you've described his life with his mom exactly!
His older brother (4) is thriving on the increased structure here. He really responds to the things you have described. Routine is vital to him. But the little one just doesn't get it yet. I am hoping that time will heal him. But in the meantime-watch out!
mavmama wrote:
Theresa,
Since he is attached to you, do you think the behavior comes from the attachment issues with his mom, but you are getting the rage? |
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Yes, I am sure this has a great deal to do with it. On the rare occasion that dd calls he (and his brother) act out considerably after speaking with her. Lots of abandonment issues to deal with.
amyable wrote:
*waiting here with pad and pencil*
Other than the attachment issue you noted (my 2yo wants hugs when upset) you have described my dd to a T.
No advice, just prayers! |
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Amy, it is good to know I am not alone, but I am so sorry you have to deal with this also. Prayers coming your way as well!
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Theresa
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Tami
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Oh, Theresa, hugs for you!! And I commend you on your willingness to take this challenge on. Really.
Ok, my .02. The first thing that came to mind was structure (and Susan covered it well! ). I think Liz's point about attachment is well worth exploring, too.
I'm wondering though, how long you've had this little guy, now that he's with you permanently?
Has it worsened since your husband's been away?
Some (some!) of it strikes me as developmental - that irrational 2 year-old behaviour. Separating that part out from any other issues he might have will take time, and tons of discernment.
Danielle Bean wrote from time to time about her little boy, Raphael, at this age. I learned a lot from reading her blog.
I would consider picking one behaviour to work on (as much as you can with a 2 year old anyway) - maybe the easiest to deal with, or the one that most 'gets in the way' of family life, or work on the tantrum issue as a whole, then apply it when it surfaces.
Truth is, this boy really needs you, to sort out his ups and downs for him. You're kind of his John the Baptist, filling in the valleys in his life and leveling the mountains. Lots of holy water and smiles will help the atmosphere - "love (your love for him) covers a multitude of sins" comes to mind here...
Hope this helps. And, as I always say to myself when one of the children is really tough: "there's a gift in there, somewhere. Somewhere." My job is to search it out.
Bless you!!
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God bless,
Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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lapazfarm
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Thank you Tami. What you say makes so much sense. He really needs someone to keep him leveled.
It is hard to discern which is normal 2yo issues, and which is his own particular stuff. My kids were all so easy, would never have screamed at me or pushed me away. So it all just blows my mind.
To answer your questions, he has been with us since early October. He lived with us before,off and on, but those times his mom was always "around" and would pop in from time to time, and stayed with us for awhile, too. This is the first time she has been totally out of the picture (she is in a drug rehab facility right now).
He is very attached to dh also, and I am sure he misses him as much as I do!He has had multiple "daddies" in his short life, and dh has been the only consistent father figure to him.
Now that I write it all down this way, I realize it hasn't really been very long. I need to be more patient. I guess it just seems like forever when dealing with this behavior day in and day out.
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Theresa
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hsmom
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Therese, What you describe could be more than attachment issues, it could be RAD - reactive attachment disorderwhich is why nothing that would normally work in training/discipline works. There is a website attach-china.org that explains a lot of this. What your grandchildren experienced with an on again off again relationship with mom at such a young age is trauma to a child. They don't always just bounce back because they are young. I encourage you to check out the site. If this is RAD, the sooner the better. I am way too intimately familiar with this problem. Do you now have permanent custody or will they go back to mom after rehab? Let me know if you have any questions.
Valerie
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Tami
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lapazfarm wrote:
Thank you Tami. What you say makes so much sense. He really needs someone to keep him leveled.
It is hard to discern which is normal 2yo issues, and which is his own particular stuff. |
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Theresa, this IS hard to do. And that irrational 'thing' is a tough one to handle! Sounds like me and my hormones!
lapazfarm wrote:
| My kids were all so easy, would never have screamed at me or pushed me away. So it all just blows my mind. |
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Aawww, that does make it harder. It sometimes makes you wonder 'why didn't I get this one in my 20's?' - well, I had tough ones in my 20's (and on... ) and it was still hard....
lapazfarm wrote:
To answer your questions, he has been with us since early October. He lived with us before,off and on, but those times his mom was always "around" and would pop in from time to time, and stayed with us for awhile, too. This is the first time she has been totally out of the picture (she is in a drug rehab facility right now).
He is very attached to dh also, and I am sure he misses him as much as I do!He has had multiple "daddies" in his short life, and dh has been the only consistent father figure to him.
Now that I write it all down this way, I realize it hasn't really been very long. |
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You're right, that's not long at all - and he has been through an awful lot in a short amount of time.  His short little life has been constant change. I think maybe the empahsis on structure may be what he needs to grasp hold of some peace and security. Maybe some of this is his way of expressing grief at the losses he's had...?
lapazfarm wrote:
| I need to be more patient. I guess it just seems like forever when dealing with this behavior day in and day out. |
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You know the scripture "A day is like a thousand year..."? I think of this one during times of struggle... Make sure you take care of yourself, esp. since your dh isn't there to do it for you.
Peace be with you. ALL of you! 
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God bless,
Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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AndreaG
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My oldest child was/is like this. I suppose I should have more advice on how to handle it. I did find the book Raising Your Spirited Child somewhat helpful in understanding the more intense temperment. He was recently diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, treating that has made life so easy! Of course the best part is that my son actually seems happy, rather than constantly at odds with the world.
I always worried I was a bad mom because nothing seemed to help and he was my first. My younger three are totally easier, what a relief!
I will pray for you to find some solutions for your situation, and it gets easier. It sounds like you are providing a wonderfully healing environment for your sweet grandsons.
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lapazfarm
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Thanks again, Tami. you give me much comfort!
Valerie, I am pretty familiar with RAD, having researched it a bunch to inform myself before pursuing our adoption of JBug (who, thankfully, seems to have escaped any lasting issues). And though he does display some signs of attachment issues,I am convinced he does not have full-blown RAD, as he does have healthy attachments to us, just not his mother.
If anything, I would thing ODD is more on par with his behaviors. I am currently researching that some more, in hopes of gaining insight.
Hopefully it is neither RAD or ODD, but simply BRAT!LOL!
(Oh, and I hope you all know I say that with the greatest love and affection for the little guy.)
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Theresa
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amyable
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Something I can add, although it is probably not the case with you - several of my toddlers were very difficult to deal with, because they were ingesting and/or exposed to things they were sensitive too. Dairy is a big offender with kids that have behavioral issues, as is corn. Because we were already hyper vigilant about our oldest's diet due to food allergies, we noticed the connection early (dairy ingestion would result in horrible rages 24 hours later). She's outgrown it, we think - although it might explain the rest of her *current* behavior!
Come to think of it, maybe I should try this with my 2yo...
Knowing your grandson's history though, it sounds much more like a reaction to his earlier life, although it could always be more than one thing.
(((((hugs))))
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SallyT
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I have had two children (one still in this phase, though it's tapering off) who have done the pushing-away thing when upset/tantruming. It's my girls, both of them, so I've always just thought of it as a drama-queen girl thing. We have a number of intense personalities around here! But my oldest, who was very like that at two and three, is a lovely almost-14yo now.
Could be a disorder, could be food sensitivity, could simply be what's sometimes called a spirited child, though I really, despite the more negative title, prefer Stanley Turkecki's book, The Difficult Child, to the one on raising your spirited child. He gives a list of "difficulty factors" which include hypersensitivity (like to the way clothes feel), hyper-difficulty with transitions, strong negative first reactions to anything, etc. I'm remembering the ones which applied to my oldest when she was younger!
Anyway, not giving advice or telling you to brush things off because they're "normal" for two, or whatever, but it might be worth having a look at that Stanley Turecki book, if you can get it from the library. As I recall (it's been a long time), he offers some very useful disciplinary strategies for children whom "nothing works on."
Prayers for you!
Sally
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Waverley
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I know that children exposed to drugs and/or alcohol in utero exhibit behavior problems and frustrate very easily. As a foster and adoptive parent, we have experienced this first-hand. There are resources available to help you determine if this could be the cause of the problems and, if so, to help you help him gain more control over his body and mind.
Good luck to you. I admire your willingness to step in and care for your grandchildren. As you well know, many grandparents do not step forward and the "costs" for stepping forward are very real.
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BlessedBGod
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Hey Moms,
Kim here, from North Carolina, a foster and adoptive mom. I wonder if he has sensory issues. I have dealt with this in the past and in the present. My MIL, who was a foster mom for many years, also dealt with this. She said that places like empty auditoriums, gymnasiums, and stores have a noise to them, like a white noise but it is like rubbing a cat the wrong way for a child with sensory issues. I notice this whenever I go to Surf City beach. My foster kids with sensory issues just take one step on the beach, open their mouths and start screaming. It is very un-nerving for them to be there. Walmart has the same effect on one of them. I would just keep your grandson out of the stores for a few years. Also, I would be wearing him in a sling for many hours each day. Some moms on the Little Stripes e-mail discussion group, will wear their two-year-olds for up to six hours a day. It's not so much about bonding but smoothing out your child's attitude so it's not so drastic. (I know it's uncomfortable, impractical, and downright obnoxious to wear a big child, but it works.) God bless you for your kindness to your grandchildren in taking them in. I wonder what the birth mom may have ingested while she was pregnant. Hmm. You are in my prayers.
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marianne
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Theresa,
No advice, whatsoever, but I'll pray for your situation and for those little boys who have been through so much! God bless you for helping them!
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StephanieA
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You mentioned the grocery store....and that struck a chord, because my 7th is rather a smart kid, but VERY
overwhelmed with busyness at any store, social situation, etc.
I took her to Hobby Lobby several months ago. This child is 4 years old. She made it through the store OK, but when it came to leave she pouted at the door. I finally picked her up and tried to leave with her. She then squirmed out of my arms and bolted through the door and into the parking lot. (I also had the 10 month old with me  Yeah, like what was I thinking?
Anyway, I chalked it up as being tired. BUT...the same thing happened 2 days ago.
I usually never take her out. I leave her home with a sibling. But I am convinced that all that activity freaks her out.
Our house is busy enough and maybe shopping, etc. puts her over the edge.
Just a thought.
Stephanie
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marihalojen
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Theresa, no advice, just lots of prayers...
Though I will toss out a flipcard idea I always loved for non-readers to order their day - take pictures of him doing the tasks like brushing his teeth or having Superboy reading a book with him and post the photos on cards hanging on a ring. Some tasks come everyday and perhaps having a little booklet with him in it doing the task would help him structure his day?
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Kristie 4
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Prayers for you Theresa....there is almost nothing more difficult than a 2 year old (although lately a pre teen female is up there for me )
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Martha
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This sounds very much like my first who is normal (well are any of them normal?) but does have similiar sensory issues.
Structure is vital to him, most notably meals and sleep.
LOTS of need to burn energy physically, way more than the average kid. Oh and the more hyper he seems is the more tired he actually was. If I didn't make him go to bed, he'd get all wound up and just spaz until he couldn't relax enough to sleep at all and would just scream and fit throw for hours.
All his clothes are a bit big on him and they are always soft. No bulky or itchy seams. It's important to him to be able to move easily and the distraction of the slightest issue in that area will drive him nuts. For example he'll say he's "itching" all over and we all know how a bad itch you can't scratch can drive you batty. To him his whole body is itching when any of his clothes are uncomfortable. We don't have to buy anything expensive, it's not about fabric. Just little things another kids wouldn't notice he is extremely aware of. (Like the toe seam on his socks.)
He needs transition time. I can't just say "Let's go." because it fries his wires. I have to tell him he has 10 minutes to finish what he is doing then we are going to blank place. Then I have to say what is expected of him at blank place.
This all sounds like an over-whelming amount of work, but he is MUCH better than he used to be just a few years ago. Many people think I'm a bit of a well insert not nice word here with this oldest child of mine, but what they don't see is that I've had to be rather strict and harsh to help him. Making an exception isn't a treat for this child. It's cruel. And he doesn't hear a soft voice. Serioiusly he doesn't hear it. I have to use a certain tone and insist he look at me and holds himself still or he honestly does not hear me. It'll look like he is, but he wouldn't.
So much has gotten tremendously better, but I think I cried every day from age 2-ish to 7 years old. It's always a fine line between helping him and kicking him when he's down and of course everyone thinks they know more about him than me and non of them see the great strides he's made because of my being a mean mom.
On the plus side. I would fall over dead if this child could be pressured into anything. He has his own mind and he isn't going to take any poo from anyone. He has a very strong sense of justice and questions everything. As frustrating as those traits are when we need a little one to just do as they are told, it's a great quality in a future man, husband, father, Catholic citizen! 
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Yikes! This kid is rotten!
