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juststartn
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| Posted: June 21 2007 at 8:34pm | IP Logged
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Do tell me, please. She's 3--turned 3 in April. SHe can remove her clothes (shoot, she's trying to BUTTON!), She can get the diaper off. I have tried using regular training undies (the cloth kind, not the diaperish ones), nada--she doesn't care that she's cold/wet/icky (same thing with the diapers--she doesn't CARE)....she'll just "go" where ever...my couch...the floor...the rug...her sister's bed...
SHe's outgrowing the size 6 diapers--not anything bigger than that that doesn't cost a fortune, and I am getting really really tired of dealing with her messes. She can get onto the toilet by herself (she's refused to sit on the training potty all along--only the big one will do). She just won't go. She won't even tell you when she's gone, most of the time. She'll just go pull off her wet one (or worse yet, a dirty one) and go about her business....
She has all of the abilities to go. But I cannot simply spend the time to do the every 10min thing. Not with the boys and their needs (they both have reflux, and it is a constant guessing game as to when that is going to strike and leave me with one or both boys shrieking in pain)....Telling her to go get on the toilet isn't working--she'll lay down in the hallway and SCREAM "NONONONONONONONONONO MOMMY!!!!"....I can only stand so much screaming....between her, her older sisters (their general yelling) and the boys crying, it gets a bit overwhelming.
But I am sick and tired of dealing with her stubborn streak. The older two pretty much did it on their own--ok, they did take some work, but NOTHING like this, and they were both trained a good year before this...
If any of you has any good advice, PLEASE let me know. I've even tried letting her run around out of doors bare bottomed...Nope. Not helping either (other than saving me the trouble of wasting diapers).
I don't know WHAT to do with this child of mine. Stubborness and persistance can be a virtue, but I do believe this surpasses virtue and goes straight into annoying as all get out...
My mom wants me to take her to a shrink. Its not a problem of her not going at all on the toilet--she will sit on it (when she wants to) and she will put stuff in it (when its there and she chooses to)...so it's not a mental hangup about elimination.
Any thoughts? Please? GOT to get this child going on the toilet before she turns 4....
Rachel
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Red Cardigan
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| Posted: June 21 2007 at 9:30pm | IP Logged
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I only have three (all girls), and the "Naked and $75 (for carpet cleaning) method pretty much worked for all of them, but if I had a more stubborn one I'm thinking I'd try something else.
Since she's a bit older and sounds very smart, maybe you could start linking potty use to the privileges her older sisters get? Stressing the fact, perhaps, that babies use diapers and that babies don't get to: stay up later, watch a particular movie, get a certain kind of treat, etc. I don't know--it's just a thought.
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 21 2007 at 9:47pm | IP Logged
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Well, here are a few things that worked for ours. DD (oldest now and this is long ago) sounds very much like that, so I gave up, put the diapers on. Then a few days later she talks about wanting to do some sort of group class thing. Mommy smiles and says, but dear you have to be in underwear and no accidents in order to do that. She was in underwear, no accidents overnight. Actually she never, ever had an accident. (Gymnastics, VBS, gymboree, doesn't matter).
With our 4 yo, he did the same thing overnight in order to go fishing with his grandfather.
These two have actually been my easiest and neither ever, ever had an accident day or night.  Just took me a while and a deep breath to realize that they would not go down the aisle in a diaper.
Janet
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Kristin
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| Posted: June 21 2007 at 9:48pm | IP Logged
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Well, one thing that worked for me with ds who was a challenge in this area was to sit down and have a brief talk.
The talk consisted of the following:
- Your body makes pee and poop.
- It is your job to put the pee and poop in the potty.
- I am sorry that I have reminded you too often, gotten angry/frustrated with you, etc. (whatever applies)
- From now on I will not be reminding you. It's your job, and that includes cleaning up after any accidents you may have.
- End with a big hug.
After the talk he nodded and smiled and went on his way but within 3-5 days there was a noticeable difference in his behavior! It was amazing!!!
If you do this, it is very important that you do "let go" and stop reminding or trying to get involved. Another key is requiring them to clean up the messes that they make (of course, you may have to go back and do an additional clean-up when they are not around). With ds I did help with the poopie accidents because it would have been too messy. Putting the "onus" on him to clean up the messes and totally change himself out really seemed to help.
Following this sizable improvement, he had period where he kept having accidents, in particular when we were out and about. We had a brief talk about how he was just going to have to decide to stop what he was doing (playing, etc.) and go to the potty --- and wouldn't that be easier than having to get cleaned up and changed after an accident? It clicked and he was (finally) on his way!
HTH --- I know what it's like to be at whits end! 
Blessings and let us know how things turn out!
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JenniferS
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 8:34am | IP Logged
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My dd was much liek your's. She was over three before she potty trained. Like Janet's dd, she decided there was some fun group activity she wanted to do. we told her that she couldn't becasue she wasn't potty trained, and she amazingly trained overnight.
Good luck. I know it is frustrating.
Jen
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juststartn
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 3:50pm | IP Logged
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Well, we don't "do" group stuff, so that kind of messes with that--altho I am pulling the "you have pooped in your swimsuit, so you are NOT allowed in the pool/slip and slide/out back like the big girls...into the crib with you, little baby!"...oh, I am a MEAAAN Mommy! LOL
I had had the talk with her before she ever went outside, so she had been warned. She's not happy, not at all. But maybe she'll remember this tomorrow.
We'll see. She's a really stubborn thing. Desired activities have, in the past, not been a motivator. But they were only one-time deals...not every day like the pool and slip & slide (which are in our backyard)..
Thanks ladies,
Rachel
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doris
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 3:51pm | IP Logged
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Rewards worked a treat for my ds. Nice little stickers saying 'I am grown up today' or something -- plus special loo paper that only he was allowed to use. Maybe you could get some pink or floral stuff or something that would appeal to her?
OTOH -- could you tackle it another way? Could this be an attention-seeking thing because of the arrival of the boys and the departure of your dh? If so, could you manage to give her a few minutes each day of one-to-one time? I can imagine that even that might be tricky, but it might tackle the problem from another angle.
Or -- you could just wait a couple of months and try again then.
Hang in there...
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 4:18pm | IP Logged
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My oldest dd had a very sporadic interest in potty training; she'd be *on* for a few days and then *off* for weeks. Maybe I was being inconsistent, but I preferred to put the diapers back on over finding puddles and plops in the corners. She went for a check-up when she was 2 yrs., 8 months (we had just moved and were meeting the new pediatrician). I mentioned this concern about her potty habits and he replied (in dd's hearing), "As much as you'd like to be able to talk her into using the potty, this is really an area over which you have no control." Interestingly (or not, if you know this child ) the next morning when getting dressed for the day, she announced, "I don't wear diapers anymore." And, with the exception of a relatively few accidents, she was good to go after that. I'm thinking that, depending on the temperament of the child, your apparent lack of interest in her being potty trained might be just the *motivation* for her to commit to it. With some dc *reverse psychology* can be the way to go.
Peace,
Nancy
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juststartn
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 6:23pm | IP Logged
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doris wrote:
Rewards worked a treat for my ds. Nice little stickers saying 'I am grown up today' or something -- plus special loo paper that only he was allowed to use. Maybe you could get some pink or floral stuff or something that would appeal to her?
OTOH -- could you tackle it another way? Could this be an attention-seeking thing because of the arrival of the boys and the departure of your dh? If so, could you manage to give her a few minutes each day of one-to-one time? I can imagine that even that might be tricky, but it might tackle the problem from another angle.
Or -- you could just wait a couple of months and try again then.
Hang in there... |
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Oh, no this is a long term behavioral thing. We've been trying to train off and on since she turned two. Yeah. Over a year. SIGH. Six mos after she turned two, I got pregnant, and hit that lovely nauseating/fatiguing wall of the first trimester (which lasted almost 4 mos), and then found out about the twins. She seems to be thrilled that she has TWO brothers (altho she has ID'd one of them as "her baby", lol). DHs deployment is similar...not an issue last year. But its the same thing now as it was back then.
Rewards got us nowhere--sigh. Stickers? Same thing. She's a stubborn little thing. VERY stubborn.
SIGH
Rachel
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Kristin
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
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Nancy has said it well above ... "I'm thinking that, depending on the temperament of the child, your apparent lack of interest in her being potty trained might be just the *motivation* for her to commit to it. With some dc *reverse psychology* can be the way to go. "
This is a big part of what worked with our son. After our little talk, whenever he had an accident I appeared as nonchalant and indifferent as I possibly could. "Oh, ok. Time to go get yourself cleaned up!" 
BTW, I found this idea in a book about children's health that I happened to pick up ... by the grace of God! 
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KackyK
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 10:12pm | IP Logged
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I know you said rewards didn't work. But this worked for one of my dc when at first he claimed he didn't care about the rewards (some may think this is harsh...avert your eyes )
My ds would get 3 skittles (candy is the only motivator in this house) if he went in the potty, yeah! But if he didn't (and it wasn't a true accident but a "don't feel like going to the potty" moment), then everyone else (me and all other dc) got 3 skittles each and we'd be sure he saw that we got them. Didn't take long for him to figure that out...sure he didn't care whether he got any or not, but he certainly was going to be reason others got them!
A little reverse psychology rewarding...or something like that!
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StephanieA
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| Posted: June 23 2007 at 7:07am | IP Logged
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I have had relatively late potty trainers, but my advice is to wait until she is truly ready. Seriously. My second son (of 8) was overly encouraged to potty train at 4 and it had its serious side effects.
I have a much more lax approach to potty training after this experience. Don't get me wrong. I encourage, but not overly so (rewards, etc.). Some kid's self-esteem can get involved and we may not even know it - until later.
FYI, my 4 daughters potty trained between the ages of 3.5 and 4.5. Yes, the poop is awful by 4, but without going into details of a year of problems with #2 (had Dr. Wm. Sears involved , it isn't worth the push. With a year's worth of research into this, some kids simply aren't ready at magical age of 2-3 years. Dr. Sears sees problems like my son had over and over again. And I thought I was a loner in this area. Some kids are more sensitive than others and embarrasing them into potty training possibly isn't worth it in the end.
PS. I decided to edit and explain the problem in case it could help someone else. Basically, my son held in his poop - totally unknown to me for a year or so.
He was chronically constipated (and this had nothing to do with our diet which was rich in whole foods). Later after many doctors, a pyschologist, and research, I found out that this happens to smart, overachieving kids more often than I would have ever realized. They DON'T want to fail even at a young age. Failing to control their potty training is viewed by them as devistating. How was I suppose to know this At age 3? I just wanted less diapers to do!
He wasn't even talking great. Well, the short of it is this child is now 17 AND a smart, overachiever. He doesn't give himself much slack for failure at all. (Gotta continue to work on this). But overencouraging him to control himself backfired big time. Of course, it doesn't happen MOST of the time with most kids, but I will take a nearly 4 year old in diapers to dealing with cronic constipation for 3 years with a 7 year old.
BLessings,
Stephanie
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Dawnie
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| Posted: June 23 2007 at 7:59am | IP Logged
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Rachel,
My oldest daughter was pretty stubborn about potty training, too. She didn't potty train until she was over 3. She also did not care about being wet or poopy. I basically made her sit on the toilet untl she went, taking her very frequently. She was potty trained, and having only infrequent accidents by the time she was 4.
My second dd potty-trained herself BEFORE she was 3. She'd take her own diaper off and go poop in the potty, no problem! She did have quite a lot of pee accidents, though.
My third daughter turned 3 in May and we just started REALLY working on potty-training this month. She's doing pretty well with peeing in the potty, but has only pooped in the potty once. At least she TELLS me when she pooped in her panties, though. While it is frustrating (and gross) to clean up her messes, she still looks like such a baby to me. I know from experience that she WILL poop in the potty eventually. Maybe she'll be older than the "average," but she'll go.
Now Rachel, if I had needy newborn twins, a dh who was in another country, and a 3yo who was resistant to potty-training, I would rather clean up a diaper than clean up carpet and furniture. Perhaps she is not ready yet. If the size 6 diapers are getting too expensive, have you considered cloth? You probably would not need as many for a 3yo as you would for a little baby. What about pull-ups? Are they more or less expensive than diapers?
Just remember, THIS TOO SHALL PASS! (no pun intended!!)
Dawn
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: June 23 2007 at 8:16am | IP Logged
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KackyK-
Okay, so what's up with *three skittles* One of my dd's got this same reward for potty successes. She so much associated the skittles with the pottying that she would announce her trip to the potty chair by saying (in her baby talk way) "I want bee kissles" (three skittles).
Peace,
Nancy
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Kristin
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| Posted: June 23 2007 at 5:26pm | IP Logged
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For our children it has been Tic-Tacs! The novelty of the little container is a big motivator! In our house, Tic-Tacs are officially called "Pee-Pee Candy"! I don't think I will ever look at Tic-Tacs in the same way again!
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ElizLeone
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| Posted: June 23 2007 at 5:36pm | IP Logged
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Pee-Pee Candy! I love it!
In our house, growing up, Smarties were called "urination candies" for the same reason. (My parents were in the medical profession. Thus, the medical terminology.)
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 24 2007 at 3:01pm | IP Logged
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Laid back and matter of fact is the real key - and readiness of the child. I think it is more of a natural consequences type of thing.
Most of mine were not potty trained till close to 4.5 years. Some were outgrowing diapers and we did go to pull ups - but I never called those underwear. My current 4.5 yo just potty trained around 4. His motivation was going fishing with his grandfather - my real reason for tying potty training to the incident was that I wanted the experience with grandpa to be pleasant and knew my son needed a certain maturity for the two personalities to get along well (ie pay enough attention to instructions, no meltdowns, etc.) - figuring potty training would take some time and maturity, this was the outward key connected to the event. (Personally, I'd had enough experience with potty trained boys, that I wouldn't have minded a little more time before it happened so I really, truely was not anxious about the training aspect). Since the readiness was there, I guess, he just put everything together and did it. And the timing did work out. DS was put on the grandchild waiting list as soon as he potty trained, but the event happened just long enough after the training for all the maturity to come together to make the event a really positive one for grandfather and grandson.
I will also say that some of mine were duly impressed that younger cousins were already trained - and one decided that it was a baby thing that the baby cousin did - and it was about time he moved on. (Is this the male one upmanship coming out even in potty training )
We did have a sticker chart for one - but her big reward was a square of toilet tissue for her collection. She had to keep a square from anywhere we went . The big motivator was some activity she wanted to do - but it was more the matter of factness, no anger, no impatience, no rush. It really is up to them and it is one thing that could be safely handed to them to handle, once everything was shown, etc.
Curiously, my dc who had some accidents were the ones that trained themselves at an earlier age trying to compete with cousins or siblings. Personally, I'd rather have the no accidents and late age and deal with diapers for a little longer. I guess I just never had the patience or regularity to put them on the potty. We showed them the potty, helped them sit on it, showed them how, set up the sticker chart/whatever and bought the underwear for whenever they asked to try - but I was not going to add chasing them around the house to my TO DO list. When they were ready, it simply happened.
I guess laid back is my potty training style. There were days with some of my boys that I wished they were back in diapers - and I did send dh in to teach them how to aim as that was something mom just didn't seem to have much authority teaching. They seemed so distractible and we had spots on the ceiling, walls, floor, etc. - but no accidents . I like the idea of putting them in charge of clean-up (matter of factly with proper training and help) and will be implementing this for the bathroom cleanup.
Janet
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Joelle
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| Posted: June 24 2007 at 8:44pm | IP Logged
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My dd turned 3 in March and still is not potty trained. We tried the pressure thing and the candy thing, and the activity thing--all to no avail. All around, she just seems a little more immature than the others. I also had a friend who said not to pressure her and let it be until she's 4 at least. This was good advice, since we have a baby coming soon also. Since all my others trained easily around 3 and my friend's kids all are trained by 3, it is nice to see others that are not trained by 3, and now we don't feel like the "potty outcasts!"
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Topic: How do I get this kid to potty train?
