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Tina P.
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I've never been much of a fan of William Steig, Leo Leonni (except Swimmy; I like that book), Bernard Waber, Mercer Mayer or Maurice Sendak.
Some of the stories are morbid (Sendak's takes on fairy tales ... of which I know some are morbid anyway, but do you have to *show* it in pictures as well?), some are boring, some are nonsense, some are depressing, and some address issues I'd rather not introduce to my kids when they're little. And the artwork doesn't seem inspired to me. What's the appeal of authors such as these to teachers? I don't see anything particularly "living" in any of these books.
This is only my own uneducated opinion. I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by asking these question. But I certainly wouldn't mind a little enlightenment.
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teachingmom
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Interestingly, I have to agree with you in general, Tina. I'm not attracted to most of the books of these authors that I've come across. One notable exception is William Steig's Brave Irene. My college roommate went on to study for an MA in early childhood education. She came across that book at her first educational conference and bought it for me because, of course, it made her think of me. It was the first chidren's book I owned as an adult, and I really like the story. 
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Cheryl
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This is a good question. These are not my favorites either. I do love Pete's a Pizza (Steig) though. And I think I remember liking Frederick (Lionni). My dd 6 has been taking those Little Critter books out of the library. She loves them. I'd like to hear what others have to say about this topic.
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teachingmom
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I forgot about the Little Critter books. My girls have enjoyed those a bit at a certain preschool stage too. I remember one, I Was So Mad, being read again and again for at least one of my dds. Now that I think about it, it might have been the one who struggled most with temper tantrums at that age. Maybe she liked the book because she could identify with Little Critter's feelings! 
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LisaR
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funny, I love Steig, (CDB is a HUGE hit here  , also Sylvester and the Magic Pebble is the one book that I brought with me into surgery as a child!!)
but can't stand Leonni. (although the illustrations are kind of cool in a 70ish way!!).
no patience for Mercer Mayer, and Sendak is a mixed bag...
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MaryMary
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I have to say, I LOVE Sendak's illustrations for the "Little Bear" series  , but I would have to agree with your appraisal of his writing. Another author that makes me *nuts* is Robert Munsch...he's SO big in Canada...and I've really tried hard to give his books a fair shake..but I find them to be so crass, and too much body-humour for my liking !
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Lisbet
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I LOVE LOVE LOVE Little Bear - and Sylvester and the Magic Pebble was one of my favorites as a kid - I still have the same copy I bought from the bookmobile in second grade!  My kids love it also.
I have never like the Little Critter books, I just don't like that kind of story. Robert Munsch rings a bell, but I can't place the book/s...Ah Love You Forever, yes, sweet, and corny, but not a lasting story around here.
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MaryMary
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| Posted: July 11 2008 at 5:26pm | IP Logged
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Lisbet wrote:
| Robert Munsch rings a bell, but I can't place the book/s...Ah Love You Forever, yes, sweet, and corny, but not a lasting story around here. |
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Ah! That's right!"Love you Forever" is probably the best Munsch story...still not a huge hit around here, either...and we usually like sticky sweet stories !
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stefoodie
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LOL, I love this topic, though I probably can't answer your question (why?) to your satisfaction.
I never liked Sendak, esp. Where the Wild Things Are, until I had "wild things" of my own. They *do* relate to that child! And as a mom I was able to appreciate the "wildness" better, and understand my child better -- that sometimes they just have to be "wild things", then they calm down and want to be loved and given a hot dinner just like any other child.
And then I discovered Chicken Soup and Rice and the Little Bear books and I was hooked.
Steig, I don't know, just has an appeal -- the Magic Pebble is also a favorite, and the one with the dentist (?)... maybe it's because he makes me wonder about "oh no, what if..." questions...? Almost like the kind of thrill from a suspense movie...?
Lionni makes me think of Carle... we *love* Alexander and the Wind Up Mouse, because it's such a testament to beautiful friendship. The '70's feel is just warm and cozy to me.
I don't know why really.... maybe to me they're "feel good" books and once in a while I just need to read one to the kids, or the kids need one read to them.
I *hate* Robert Munsch's books, though, sorry. Please don't throw tomatoes. ESPECIALLY Love You Forever. Argh.
And I don't like Bernard Waber books, but the kids do, so I read when they ask -- I guess Lyle's appeal is the message about discrimination....?
rambling.... going now...
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Tina P.
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MaryMary wrote:
| I have to say, I LOVE Sendak's illustrations for the "Little Bear" series |
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Oh, yeah! OK, maybe I'm generalizing a bit too much. I guess I want security in an author. Edna Miller of the Mousekin stories comes to mind as one I can trust without question. With the authors/illustrators I mentioned above, either absolutely NOTHING appeals to me, or one or two very select books.
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sarahb
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I love the Little Critter- not because they appeal to me, but becauase the first person narrative very much appealed to 2 of my kids. One thought the books were about him. That's me when I was a beaver he'd say. LOL
I love Frederick.
I think this is purely a matter of personal taste.
I'm not sure how they could be perceived as not living books though.
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Tina P.
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Sarah:
Can you explain to me how Steig, Leonni, Mayer, Sendak, etc. books are living?
Compare them to All the Places to Love, The Raft, orOne Thousand Tracings. These are just a few of many of our favorites at this house. These stories resonate warmth and family love. They embrace learning in a natural way.
Where's the depth in the Steig, Waber, Mayer, Sendak, and Lionni, both in illustrations and in the story? And, as I said earlier in the thread, the stories from these authors range from nonsensical to morbid to addressing divorce (Waber), etc. There are one or two redeeming stories (Swimmy) or series (Little Bear), but on the whole, I steer clear of these authors.
I just wondered *why* teachers find them so appealing when there are so many more beautiful, wonderful stories out there.
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Tina P.
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sarahb wrote:
| I'm not sure how they could be perceived as not living books though. |
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Can you explain what it is in the Steig, Waber, Sendak, and stories that make them living?
Compare any of them, for example, to One Thousand Tracings, The Raft, or All the Places to Love, just to name a few favorites. I won't bore you with a complete listing!  I fall in love all over again when I read these books.
Where's the depth in both illustrations *and* story of the Steig, Leonni, Waber ... etc. books? Food-wise, these books are store-bought, sugar-infested cupcakes versus the vegetables, meat, and potatoes offered by the books I listed above. Blech.
And I *do* agree with you, Stef, about not appreciating Where the Wild Things Are until I had wild thiings of my own!
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sarahb
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I'm not familiar with the books you mention. Im not sure Im capable of defending those my family happens to enjoy to someone who calls them "Food-wise, these books are store-bought, sugar-infested cupcakes". Im sorry you dont enjoy them. Seems like we can agree to disagree on the matter.
Frederick is a particularly lovely story by Leonni. I find it lyrical and the simple illustrations are charming.
My children also enjoy Beatrix Potter and many other fine works. And we like Junie B Jones too. We can enjoy many different sorts of books and gain something useful from them all, even if it is just the joy of some silly humour.
As for addressing divorce, divorce is a fact of life for many children. It has to be addressed. Im so glad some authors have lovingly treated the topic for the comfort of those poor children who suffer because of their parents inadequacies.
I have friends who found Peter Rabbit too morbid because Mr Rabbit was put into a pie. My children get a good chuckle out of that.
Each child and each family is different. Each must make the choices which are right for them! There isnt anything sinful or objectionable in Leonni or Little Critter.
I love "sipping once sipping twice sipping chicken soup with rice." Where the Wild Things Are is a great circle story, so is The Night Kitchen.
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mary
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pierre - the kid who doesn't care and sylvester are two much loved books here.
how does one decide if they are living books? ambleside says this of a living book:
1. Is the writing of excellent quality?
2. Does it contain living ideas and knowledge suitable for the child?
3. Does the child react with delight caused by the spark of ideas?
4. Does it make an impact on the reader's mind (shown by his narrations)?
isn't that rather subjective? and while i'm not a fan of the berenstein bears or little critter, my kids do like them. you'll be happy to know that i draw the twaddle line somewhere - captain underpants. although, perhaps you will still be disappointed in me, we did read the entire series.  my 'i refuse to read' 7yr old boys would happily listen and draw their own cartoons from these books.
i guess sometimes, you just gotta have a cupcake.
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RamFam
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My favorite book growing up was Where the Wild Things Are. I also have always enjoyed the Little Critter books. I can't say why; I guess I assumed everyone loved them?.
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Angie Mc
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Tina P. wrote:
| I've never been much of a fan of William Steig, Leo Leonni (except Swimmy; I like that book), Bernard Waber, Mercer Mayer or Maurice Sendak. |
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My children and I like Steig (Sylvester and the Magic Pebble), Leonni (Frederick), Waber (Lyle, Ira Says Goodbye), Mayer (I Was So Mad), and Sendak (Where the Wild Things Are, Little Bear.) To talk about all of these authors as a group seems impossible to me other than to say, I appreciate their craftsmanship, unique perspective, and being among the first to set a standard for future picture books.
Tina P. wrote:
| Some of the stories are morbid (Sendak's takes on fairy tales ... of which I know some are morbid anyway, but do you have to *show* it in pictures as well?), some are boring, some are nonsense, some are depressing, and some address issues I'd rather not introduce to my kids when they're little. And the artwork doesn't seem inspired to me. |
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I like to have a variety of stories and artwork to choose from. When an artist/writer produces more than one work, I don't necessarily like all of what he/she does.
Tina P. wrote:
| What's the appeal of authors such as these to teachers? |
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I can't speak for teachers, but I would guess that teachers are inclined to choose what they are familiar with either through their personal experience or what they studied to become teachers. They also most likely have easy access to these books in the library.
Tina P. wrote:
| I don't see anything particularly "living" in any of these books. This is only my own uneducated opinion. I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by asking these question. But I certainly wouldn't mind a little enlightenment. |
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I look at Living Books as not just the most excellent all around books (beautiful story, gorgeous pictures, fabulous moral, etc.) but also books that touch our minds or hearts or funnybones in a special way. We interact with the book and the book becomes part of our family culture. For example, I can't argue that Mayer's illustrations of Lil Critters are as gorgeous as Patricia Polacco's to me, but I have fond memories of my first child absolutely loving *I Was So Mad,* giggling, and in a way, in reaction to the book, dealing more thoughtfully with her own childhoood anger.
I love that we have so many picture books to choose from...to dismiss or to love.
Love,
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MacBeth
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I could have written Angie's post. Thanks, Angie!
But it's the Berenstain Bears that I can't...erm...bear.
[ducking, hiding]
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SusanJ
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The "living books" designation is rather subjective. I won't start listing things but there are a few things that are pretty popular here that my family can't get into and my husband describes as twaddle. I like that Ambleside list, though. Sometimes I just want to read what I like instead of paying attention to what is really creating a spark in my kids.
We are big Sendak fans at our house but I have never understood the popular acclaim for Steig and Leonni, either. Oh, well!
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stefoodie
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MacBeth wrote:
But it's the Berenstain Bears that I can't...erm...bear.
[ducking, hiding] |
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Oh, ugh, ugh. Me too. We had a (well-meaning, loving -- they really thought these were great examples of what Christian books should be) godfather gift our child years ago with 15 Berenstain Bears books! Ugh. Took forever to get rid of them. I allow the kids to borrow one once in a while, VERY RARELY. I cannot stand the daddy/hubby-bashing. PLEASE.
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4Real Forums : Picture Book Discoveries
Topic: Steig, Leonni, ... why?
