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Elizabeth
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I just read about Uranus and Cronus to my nearly-eight-year-old. My ten-year-old is hating this study and from the look on Stephen's face, he's pretty horrified too. Frankly, I'm not enthused.I wouldn't choose a movie with multi-headed monsters and fatheres who eat their children. Why have I chosen picture books that are so "offensive" (for lack of a better word)? It's so far from most of what we read that I think my children are shocked.
When do you introduce myths? Why do you introduce myths? Perhaps this is not appropriate until much, much later? Christian and Michael are both arguing in defense of pursuing this study and they both know the myths and their significance surprisingly well. Last time we did Greek myths Michael was 14 and Christian was 10.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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kingvozzo
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We've just finished doing the myths here, with my 8 yo and 5 yo. They both really enjoyed it. We used D'Aulaires, Usborne Greek Myths, Jim Weiss audio,as well as several of the Dover editions. My kids have been fairly sheltered, so we didn't focus too much on Cronus and Uranus--it's pretty horrifying, I agree.
It led us onto Ulysess, which they loved as well.
I think they myths are very important to learn about because they permeate so much of the great literature. They thought it was pretty cool to see the modern references to some of the myths, herculean, midas touch, etc.
I definitely think it's a topic to be introduced early, maybe with a lot of editorializing, and then revisited when the kids are a lot older.
I realize this is a very disjointed post (my dd is listening to an audiobook and my 3 yo is playing with the Leappad, and I "can't hear myself think"  ). Maybe later I'll have something more sensible to say!
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MacBeth
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If it's too much for them, leave it out. There are many, many bible stories we leave out because of the content (until the kids are older). Goodness, if it's fair to edit sacred scripture, why not Greek Myths?
It might be worthwhile to let the kids know that the earlier titan myths are older than the others, and are more pagan (if that's possible) in their sources than the later god/goddess myths.
We use D'Aulaires, then Bullfinch's with an occasional listen to Weiss...plus that Odds Bodkin Odyssey  .
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BrendaPeter
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I find Greek Myths for Young Children to work well with the younger ones.
I know exactly what you're saying Elizabeth. I've had the same sense myself so we go VERY light on the myths in the early years. I might have them listen to the Jim Weiss' audiotapes at some point - that's about it. Like Macbeth, I also pick & choose. I like Pandora's Box & King Midas' Touch as you can find some good moral messages there.
The same can certainly be said of fairy tales. The December issue of Crisis had an excellent article on the original Christian "flavor" of fairy tales. It's not on their website yet, but, if you're interested, in a few weeks you should be able to find the article "On Mermaids And Witches: Fairy Tales And The Gospel" on Crisis' website.
I had some of the same issues this summer when we embarked on Shakespeare. I was greatly comforted when I listened to Dr. Henry Russell's Shakespeare tape from NACHE. (His talk inspired me to buy his tapes from Kolbe as well.) Unfortunately the very Catholic ideas that Shakespeare was trying to convey don't always come across as such in a narrative or children's story version. The original language is truly the best.
I must add that we're very blessed to have so many beautiful Catholic children books available to us. In the early years especially we read these the most. I often think of Laura Berquist's recommendation of imparting "the good, the true & the beautiful" on your children during those early years. These are the books that truly fit that criteria.
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marihalojen
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We've just started on our Greek studies as well and Marianna wanted a family tree to help keep all those gods and goddesses straight - she gave up eventually. It looked more like a briar patch than a tree!
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Elizabeth
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BrendaPeter wrote:
I must add that we're very blessed to have so many beautiful Catholic children books available to us. In the early years especially we read these the most. I often think of Laura Berquist's recommendation of imparting "the good, the true & the beautiful" on your children during those early years. These are the books that truly fit that criteria. |
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Which books? Not the myths. We have all the titles listed above and then some. The Odds Bodkin CD still has Odysseus committing adultery and there is still a cyclops and...well I can vivdly "see" it all and it's just not beautiful.
D'Aulaire's is the same way. There is no way to make a father who eats his children beautiful. My 10year old is especially bothered by all of this. She's troubled by the whole concept of false gods, even though I've explained it again and again. She's troubled by the gruesome stories. And I think she's really bothered by the stark contrast to Christianity. While that might be a good thing, I get the sense it would be a good thing later. Right now, she can't seem to process it. Does that make sense?
OTOH she loves the sweetness of everything from CHC...
I am so destined to be a classical education dropout, but not for lack of trying  .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Elizabeth
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Here are my Greece plans from 4 years ago. Michael who was 14 retained all of it. Christian retained most of it and went back later to fill in the blanks on his own. He was ten when we did and he did it all orally. patrick would have been 8 and he doesn't seem to remember any of it at all.
There are three levels of plans and there is also other "stuff"--nature study, art, music, that isn't necessarily related to Greece but it's what we were studying that fall.
2007-01-16_120211_Ancient_Greece-Week_1.doc
2007-01-16_120227_Ancient_Greece--Week_two.doc
2007-01-16_120245_Ancient_Greece-week_three.doc
2007-01-16_120259_Ancient_Greece--week_four.doc
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MacBeth
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Elizabeth wrote:
| We have all the titles listed above and then some. The Odds Bodkin CD still has Odysseus committing adultery and there is still a cyclops and...well I can vivdly "see" it all and it's just not beautiful. |
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Yes, well, that's the story . I always think the conversion to Christianity must have been a relief  .
Playing devil's advocate here for a sec... King David committed a bit more than adultery. Goliath was terrifying to the Israelites. Crucifixion is grim, indeed. How do we soften these stories, which are worse, surely because they are true, just as they are better, because they are true?
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Paula in MN
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We just finished Classic Myths to Read Aloud by William F. Russell. This is on the Mater Amabilis reading list for 2nd and 3rd Grade. Both my 4yo and 7yo loved the stories.
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Elizabeth
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MacBeth wrote:
[
Playing devil's advocate here for a sec... King David committed a bit more than adultery. Goliath was terrifying to the Israelites. Crucifixion is grim, indeed. How do we soften these stories, which are worse, surely because they are true, just as they are better, because they are true? |
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That's a great question. I think that the crucifixion is "softened" by the resurrection. And, come to think of it, Mary Beth and Stephen are always really bothered by the crucifixion too. I don't do the David stories when they're little with the exception of David and Goliath and that always comes out so "good guy over bad guy."
I can't jam this down their throats just now. I don't have it in me and I don't see why it can't wait. I totally agree that they need to know the stories, but I think they can wait until later.
OTOH, I thought I had the winter all planned out and I was scrambling midday today...
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MacBeth
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Oh, I agree that you can wait. And if these stories bothered my kids, I would have waited. I don't know why they didn't, but all kids are different. I would not force anything uncomfortable on them.
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| I think that the crucifixion is "softened" by the resurrection. And, come to think of it, Mary Beth and Stephen are always really bothered by the crucifixion too. |
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I think they should be bothered by it. And, yes, the Resurrection is just so magnificent...ah, but you need crucifixion to get there!
When you get to the martyrs, however, things don't turn out so obviously well. I know I held off telling the kids many martyr stories until long after we did the Greek myths. So, maybe, the issue for me is that truth is sometimes harder, and myth prepares us for the truth? And that's why we study the myths?
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Mythology always seems to be a point of contention with homeschooling parents. I have always read the myths to my children starting when they are in K. I start out with Usborne's Greek Myths. This isn't great literature but it gives them a starting point. So far we have read The Classic Greek Myths by Mary Pope Osborne and we are now starting The Wonder Book by Nathaniel Hawthorne. We read a mythology book every year. We haven't read D'Aulaires yet, that is for next year. I may have the same reaction to the gruesomeness.
I think myths are important as a foundation for reading later literature. There are so many references to the myths in other great books. But, if it was upsetting my children, then I would stop. In my opinion, it's not worth it. I would try it again when they are older.
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Julia
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And what about the odd bits in the stories of the saints? For instance, reading up on Saint Anthony's Feast Day tomorrow led me to the Golden Legend at Catholic Culture:
Therefore, Saint Anthony bent every effort to discover the whereabouts of this other hermit. And searching through the forests, he came first upon a hippocentaurus, half man and half horse, who told him to go to the right. Next he met an animal who was carrying some dates; the upper part of his body was that of a man, but he had the belly and feet of a goat. Anthony asked him what he was; and he answered that he was a satyr, that is, one of those creatures which the pagans mistook for wood-gods.
????
I'm really curious.
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I don't know what to think about the odd stories of the older saints.
My boys do love all things ancient Greek. The mythology, the games, the warfare... wonder if thats how that frat house mentality developed? 
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Elizabeth wrote:
OTOH she loves the sweetness of everything from CHC.. |
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Yes, CHC books - those are the type I was referring to -i.e. I prefer those much more in the early years over Greek myths. Sorry I was clear as mud .
We do have the same thing going on here as Bridget - boys & all things Greek & Middle Ages - swords, blood, monsters, you name it! I did talk with a young lady once who told me that she couldn't stand being classical-educated (Kolbe was what her mom used) while her brothers loved it.
My kids do tolerate stories about martyrdom MUCH better than the Greek myths. Even for myself, it seems to be more "palatable" when it's tied to our faith.
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I don't know if this would help at all. I've heard lots of "not doing the myths because of the false gods" thing.. and I never had a good answer for that. But I picked up and mostly read "Making Senses Out of Scripture" by Mark P. Shea
And in it he talks about how the stories of the Bible are the stories of the people who knew God.. and the myths are the stories of the people who didn't know God and how they made up something to fill in the space and how you can tell as time progresses that the stories are less and less satisfying.. with everything.. both Biblical and the myths building toward the advent of Christ.
I think you'd probably have to read the book for yourself.. it's not just a one paragraph quote or something that would be easy to share. But it really made a lot of sense to me and let's us touch on the myths (same resources as already listed).
Oh we also have the Gilgamesh epic (done in picture books for children by Zeman) and it tells about Noah's flood.. which is kinda cool.
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MacBeth
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I don't have a big problem with studying the myths that many of our protestant brothers have. For the most part, I think the Catholic thought on the matter is, as Jodie points out, a myth building issue. Moreover, as Julia mentions, the myths are such an integral part of our literature, we need to know the myths to "get it" as we read most classics. Similarly, we need to know the Old Testament to get the New... 
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Elizabeth
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MacBeth wrote:
| Moreover, as Julia mentions, the myths are such an integral part of our literature, we need to know the myths to "get it" as we read most classics. Similarly, we need to know the Old Testament to get the New... |
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I completely agree. But do they need it in elementary school? They are going to need to look at them again in a more mature way in high school anyway. I really think that much of the significance of they myth is beyond the developmental grasp of young children. If that's the case, then they are reading the myth for the story. Is this the story we want in the little years?
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BrendaPeter
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Just popping in to mention another book that comes to mind in regard to this topic. The Firebringer & Other Great Stories by Louis Untermeyer includes the major Greek myths, but also some of the Norse myths, Socrates, Chanticleer, King Arthur, King David, Queen Esther & St. Joan of Arc. It's written for older children (middle school & up).
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Could you use the beautiful books to give a background on some of the stories and leave out the blood, gore, adultery and worse? For instance, I have Persephone and the Pomegranate: A Myth from Greece on order at the library and we'll read it and eat pomegranates, we could even study Botticelli if we wanted - isn't it beautiful?
Other gorgeous myth books are
Pegasus
King Midas and the Golden Touch inspired by Nathaniel Hawthorne's retelling,
King Midas and the Golden Touch by Demi
Cupid and Psyche
The Librarian Who Measured the Earth
Black Ships Before Troy: The Story of the Iliad
The Wanderings of Odysseus this one sounds great - an intimate portrait of a man whose greatest desire is to return to his wife and home, despite great temptations - can't wait for my library to get it in. I haven't read all of these, but I'd decided to go this route as I wasn't very impressed with D'Aulaires book. I've heard it praised for so very long that maybe it just couldn't live up to the bar I'd set for it. Or maybe it really is too dry and dull? I've been spoiled by better, living, books and this is simply too much like a text?
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4Real Forums : Living Literature
Topic: Greek Myths
