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Olivia
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I tend to avoid books with fantasy such as trolls, fairies, magic etc... I just don't feel comfortable about reading about things which are not real or should not be done by catholics but I feel I must be mistaken since everyone else seems to accept these books and good authors include them in their writings. Could someone help me understand more about fantasy and why it is ok? Or is anyone else like me in this area? Thanks.
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Paula in MN
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I believe that good fantasy is okay. For us, there needs to be a true indication of right and wrong. My kids need to immediately sense the honor and integrity of the main characters, and recognize the misgivings many people face in their daily lives.
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 Paula
A Catholic Harvest
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folklaur
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here's a neat article that might help:
Fantasy and the Heart of a Child
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ekbell
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I'm not quite sure what the problem is with stories about creatures that are not real (such as the troll in Billy Goats Gruff) - unicorns, dragons and the like have a long history in Christianity. It's not that hard for a young person to figure out the difference between real creatures and mythical or made up creatures.
On the topic of magic.
For me it depends on the nature of the magic and how it's presented.
I've read a lot of fantasy novels from a young age and I've found that the main effect has been a basic assumption that all this sort of stuff is clearly made-up; mostly from whole-cloth. I was quite surprised to find out as an adult that there were people who took this sort of stuff seriously.
This article Magic, Middle-earth, Merlin, Muggles, and Meaning was very helpful to me when I was trying to figure out why, while I never seriously believed in the magic in the fantasy books I read as a child (let alone was tempted by it), at least one author of urban fantasy books has found people believing in the magic system she made up from whole cloth, much to her dismay.
It still seems to me that a varied reading of fantasy with its many and widely varying magic systems is unlikely to led to a serious belief in or desire to practice magic; absent any outside influences asserting the reality of magic or the desirability of the occult.
A strong grasp of science and theology will help reduce the risk as well.
This doesn't make it safe to let your child read any fantasy book they feel like, mind you, there is entirely too much casual s*x in modern young adult fantasy books- something I consider much more dangerous to the average teenager then the magic in those books.
Our children may or may not meet those who seriously believe in the desirability of the occult but in this society they *will* meet people who believe that it's fine to have casual s*x.
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Maddie
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You may also enjoy reading A Landscape With Dragons I thought Michael O'Brien did an excellent job explaining good fantasy stories and the Catholic Faith. It also includes my favorite book list.
Was is Chesterton or Lewis who said the Catholic faith is like a fairy tale, only it's a true fairy tale?
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Nina Murphy
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Maddie wrote:
You may also enjoy reading A Landscape With Dragons I thought Michael O'Brien did an excellent job explaining good fantasy stories and the Catholic Faith. It also includes my favorite book list.
Was is Chesterton or Lewis who said the Catholic faith is like a fairy tale, only it's a true fairy tale? |
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Beautiful, Maddie. Exactly!
I love fantasy as metaphor for mystery. There are so many challenges simply existing on this planet in the seen world, and then believing (and co-existing) in the unseen invisible world that is not just as real, but *more* real at the same time---- that is just impossible for our intellects and souls to grasp, to imagine......
And yet it is necessary to be able to imagine it! We need to have some sort of childlike wonder and suspension of belief.....first....in order to take that next mature step to assent to believing in what can not be seen, felt, or heard. I think it makes accepting the Mysteries of the Supernatural more possible when we are older....? Does that make sense?
I like to think of the invisible fairy world (as a perhaps weak and insufficient) symbolism of the invisible angelic world that we wish we could "see" but do not have the eyes to. You know, little incandescent beings flying around that have magical powers ----ha ha ha----it's a start for our imaginations to jump off of if the seeds are planted of the Faith at the same time....?
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and 2 yet-to-be-met
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CrunchyMom
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“Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.”--G. K. Chesterton
Willa has shared this quote with me at some point, and as always, Chesterton has such a way of summarizing a very big idea into just a few words.
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CrunchyMom
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Or maybe it was this one. Same idea.
"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." --Chesterton
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Lindsay
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Olivia
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Thank you ladies for all your thoughts on this. I'm really starting to appreciate fantasy more. I read the article Laura and that helped too. Those quotes Lindsay are great.
But I'm still not so comfortable with it. I can see how it's to do with the struggle of good over evil and how it would help children see their God given roles as a man and woman and bring out the best in them in these roles.
Maybe I'm more concerned about younger children. When I was little I was tempted to believe in these things. Some small children do believe in fairies after all. I'm worried that with younger children it could undermine believing in the reality of our faith such as Jesus, the Eucharist and angels etc.. But I can appreciate what you said Nina that it prepares us for believing in the supernatural.
When I was older and into my teenage years I wasn't interested in fantasy. The type of stories that interested me were from real life and about saints for example. I felt I could relate to it more. It's probably to do with my background as I just didn't like to read as a child and didn't read much unless I had to for school (except for saint stories  ). I guess I just don't understand enough about
I was never good at English literature at school! I'll just have to get myself a copy of A Landscape With Dragons to learn more about the subject.
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guitarnan
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I think parents also have to take their individual children into account. My own children can clearly distinguish between fantasy and reality, and they know that IRL they are not supposed to explore tarot cards, spells, etc. (But sleight-of-hand tricks are okay, and they get the difference.)
I have worked with children of all ages for a long time (teaching, day camps, co-op, Scouts) and I do know that some children don't see that line between real and pretend very well. Children younger than 4 generally can't understand even physical transformations (pouring water from one container to another, adults who put on masks and then remove them, etc.) and I can imagine that the fantasy thing might be hard for them to really comprehend.
I allow my own children to read fantasy novels if I've already read them, and I don't have big issues with them watching the LOTR films, etc.
But...I totally respect and understand their friends' parents, some of whom are uncomfortable with Star Wars, LOTR, etc. I really think parents know their children best and can prayerfully discern what will help them grow up to be people of faith.
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CrunchyMom
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Nancy is so right that there is so much that must be determined by parents and their discernment for their individual children.
I think that some very young children *do* believe in fairies, etc... and have a hard time distinguishing reality from fantasy. However, I think that many parents just decide that is okay.
I was four when I determined that there was no Santa (my parents didn't tell me, I just figured it out), but I still *played* like there was one because it is a fun idea.
The most common image of St. George is his slaying the dragon. However, we know that St. George did not literally kill a dragon but that the dragon represents sin. And yet, my three year old still believes that St. George killed the dragon. I have explained in his presence to my five year old what the dragon is, but it hasn't discouraged their play at all, and the three year old simply isn't interested in the truth at this point. And yet, does he? He doesn't really grasp the whole truth of sin in his own life, but he CAN grasp that the dragon is evil and that evil must be fought.
I have never deceived my children or lied about fantasy, and I would have problems with the idea of artificially extending a belief in some aspect such as protecting them from the truth about Santa or Saint Nicholas.
That is all really long and drawn out, but perhaps the short of it is that it is more an atmosphere of us all playing pretend together. When playing pretend, it is assumed we all know it is a game, but to put too much emphasis on that takes the fun out of it. Much like when an adult writes a piece of satire that is confused for a regular work. Much of the fun is lost once the joke has to be explained. I try to find that balance between being absolutely honest with my kids while not explaining the fun away.
Even parents who are entirely comfortable with the idea of fantasy in general are going to have different comfort levels regarding different aspects of it. The same parent who reads Andrew Lang to their children might take serious issue with watching Star Wars.
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Erin
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Olivia
I really second Maddie's recommendation of Landscapes with Dragons. I've been where you with that question and Michael O'Brien really explained it well. Not only did he answer my questions but gives a blueprint to help decide 'which fantasies'. They aren't all in the same basket by any means.
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Angie Mc
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Olivia wrote:
| When I was older and into my teenage years I wasn't interested in fantasy. The type of stories that interested me were from real life and about saints for example. |
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Olivia, I'm personally not drawn to fantasy or most fiction because of my temperment and very practical personality. To this day, I am an avid reader...of non-fiction....much to my friends' frustration  . One of the reasons I love home educating is because I'm stretched to see through the eyes of my children. I have one child who is very different in personality from me. This child thrives on good fantasy (I chose the word good because I'm stuck and can't figure out a better one  .) From this child I have broadened myself as part of my relationship with her.
I see that you're a newish member (thanks for contributing to the conversation here!) so you may want to search (button on upper right hand corner of this page) our archives for previous discussion on this topic.
Love,
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ekbell
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Olivia wrote:
Maybe I'm more concerned about younger children. When I was little I was tempted to believe in these things. Some small children do believe in fairies after all. I'm worried that with younger children it could undermine believing in the reality of our faith such as Jesus, the Eucharist and angels etc.. But I can appreciate what you said Nina that it prepares us for believing in the supernatural. |
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It's true that very young children don't have a very good grasp of what's real or not real, something which needs to be remembered before worrying about lying, deciding to watch a TV show or when reading a book to them.
I'm not terribly worried that my three year old may be confused about if a train's ability to talk (he loves the old Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends books; almost as much as he loves his My Jesus and I book and pictures of angels) but I am careful to avoid books with kids who are modelling poor sibling relationships.
I know that he'll follow my lead as to what is real and what isn't real; mommy saying angels are really real but talking trains are just makebelieve goes a long way for a child trying to figure out what's real and what's not.
It's aided by the fact that we keep fiction and non-fiction books separate; that our books about the Faith are treated in a special manner (they are stored under the family altar); that talking trains (or fairies) aren't talked of as part of real life but the Angels are....
My daughter's haven't had a problem distinguishing between the fantasy elements in the books they read and the Truths of our Faith. I've simply confirmed what is and isn't real and they've so far just believed me (my oldest is eleven); explaining that other people believe differently about areas of faith and morals has been far more worrisome.
To tell the truth I feel more comfortable explaining to my children the difference between made up stories about talking animals (or magic) and the revelations given to us from God throughout history then I do trying to explain the difference between made-up history (such as in the Davinci Code) and actual history.
Our children will need to know the difference between true and false beliefs even if they never read about fairies or trolls. A historical novel which feeds the unsuspecting reader a false history or a carefully written book where immorality leads neither to remose nor even the most likely of negative consequences is far more likely to be harmful then a cleanly written fantasy.
[btw Twilight notwithstanding I'd avoid books about vampires; when I was a member of the Science fiction and Fantasy club most books with vampires and the like had their Excessive S*x and Violence warning label.
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donnalynn
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"I do believe in fairies! I do! I do!" - I love this scene in one of the more recent Peter Pan movies.
I think I see fairies and other such creatures that are found in children's literature as part of a *pictorial* or symbolic language. These are beings that help things that cannot be seen become visible - more tangible.
So many of the stories that we read about fairies either seem to be about a process in nature or to demonstrate some kind of moral lesson.
I have never even thought to be concerned about a young child believing fairies are real. My children certainly know by the time they are 7 or so that fairies are not *real* in the same way that God and the angels are real. This kind of discernement seems to happen of its own accord -
I'll give an example - at three a child of mine might delight in a reflection caused by some kind of metal that makes a shiny spot on the wall - that child might exclaim "oh a fairy".
By the time they are say 5 or 6 they are looking for a cause that creates the shiny light on the wall.
By 8 or 9 they are exclaiming to a younger sibling (while holding the object that makes the shiny spot on the wall) - "oh look a fairy!"
I think the fairy-folk for the young child gives them something to wrap their minds around until they are able to handle more abstract concepts. It is part of that age and stage of innocence and I am not at all in hurry for my children to leave that place of delight and sweetness. As I look at my now very level headed 15 year-old those years seem all that much more fleeting and precious.
And all the while we are going to Church to praise, thank, and adore God - not fairies. Our prayers might include references to Mary, different saints, angels etc..but not fairies. It really doesn't take too much fussing or worrying on my part to help them figure out that "Fairyland" is a very different place than "Heaven".
This of course, is also assuming a varied diet of other forms of wholesome literature - we don't just read these kinds of stories but those of family life, the Bible stories, other kinds of nature stories, historical stories...etc...
Just a few musings from one of *those* parents who loves fairies, gnomes, pixies (very convenient beings for blaming all sorts of household mishaps on) and who delights in her young childrens' years of *believing*.
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guitarnan
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I think Donna has mentioned something very important, "a diet of wholesome literature," which is what I hope I'm providing to my children.
I will be the first to admit that certain genres of literature annoy or depress me (animal stories, the Narnia books excepted, top the list, particularly stories in which the dog dies), but that doesn't mean I haven't read good examples of animal stories, or that I avoid asking my children to read them. I do skip mega-sad ones in favor of, say, The Call of the Wild, but we read them, at least once in a while.
Fantasy literature needs to be wholesome in order to be worth reading. That's where we come in.
I appreciate having a place where I can ask about specific titles or series.
(So...anyone know any good animal stories? LOL!)
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Olivia
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Thank you for sharing your personal experiences with your own children on this topic. I am certainly less worried now about allowing mine to read more good fantasy books in the future.
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4Real Forums : Living Literature
Topic: Uneasy about fantasy books
