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stellamaris
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In Chapter 5, KJP discusses scheduled activities and commitments outside of the home. Even for homeschoolers, there is the constant temptation of outside activities. In fact, one study done on the social involvement of home-schooled students revealed that they have more activities and more community involvement than public schooled or private schooled students. If you consider church involvements, volunteer time, music, art, physical education activities, Latin or other classes that might be taken elsewhere than at home, it really starts to add up.
How do we discern what is best? How can we be sure that many good things don't crowd out the best things, or, especially, the one thing necessary? How can we fairly provide our sometimes many children with appropriate levels of activities and still have a life left for ourselves (or even just a tiny bit of time)?
What are your favorite quotes from this chapter? How do you balance activities and downtime? Does KJP even address the challenges of a large family (I don't think he does, but then that may not be his audience).?
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Caroline
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LeeAnn
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Reading this tonight...subbing for this very interesting topic! :)
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my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
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Barbara C.
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I think this chapter kind of applies to homeschoolers in a different way. I mean, he's talking about too many activities outside the home in addition to the seven hours the kids spend at school.
What about over-scheduling inside the home? I know when I first discovered homeschooling, I remember being excited by all of the possibilities. The thought process was kind of like: "We won't have to deal with extra busy work, standing in lines, and all the other time-wasters in school...so we can study TWICE as many subjects each year."
Over and over I see where most homeschoolers relax their expectations (especially for younger children) as they gain more experience, but I think it is a still a real temptation for homeschoolers to try to do too many subjects, too in-depth.
And then on top of it, there is the pressure to put your kids in extra activities outside the home to "prove" that they are normal and, like other parents, to give our kids opportunities that we missed out on.
At some point I realized that we just CAN NOT do everything that we want to do. We also can not afford everything we want to do. So, I keep my formal schooling simple (about an hour per day for 1st grade, less for Kindergarten). I try to limit the kids to one outside activity per person during a time period. Of course, sometimes I wonder if we have a little too much free time/unscheduled time in the afternoon. (Not so much me, but the kids. )
Even with trying to limit the kids to one outside activity each, sometimes it is hard to discern if we're doing the right thing. My oldest is a rampant extrovert; she NEEDS more outside interaction (which we realized the hard way after taking a 12-week break from all outside activities). So, we are considering allowing her to do two activities this spring.
My second girl is less extroverted (she's more middle of the road like me), so she does not NEED the interactions but enjoys classes. And I want to be fair with her, though, so she might be in two activities as well. I'm just thankful that our youngest won't be old enough to do any outside activities for another year.
Just some thoughts.
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SeaStar
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That is a very interesting thought, Barbara- overscheduling inside the home.... I see this as applying to myself more so than the kids.
At times (often ) I have unrealistic expectations of what I can do in a day or a school year.
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Marcia
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I know that when I tried to do school all day the kids and I were both super crabby. This year we've only done school in the mornings. If we don't finish something it waits until the next day. Or the next day. LOL
If they have an hour of quiet in the afternoon and then are free to do whatever they often are narrating by play acting with dress ups what we read in the morning. They are creating playscapes of what we did in history, etc. And it is totally them directed. I also find that if I try to get them to do their music practice in the afternoon....Look out. It must be done in the am when their brain and mine are kind.
I was not able to get MOTH to work for me or even MROL....It was too scheduled. But then again I couldn't handle the check lists in Sonlight! It seemed to rigorously scheduled to me. I can't imagine it if we had a "large family" (since now I think 5 is small).
I like the idea that he says a family needed to only have one sport a year....I think this could even be one outside activity a year for our family.
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Marcia
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Willa
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I don't have a lot to say about this chapter because my family doesn't tend to over-schedule -- rather the opposite. We don't leave our house very willingly at all. But I liked this:
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| A healthy interest requires time and the ballast of leisure and other interests for it to deepen and endure. |
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I also liked his points about protecting childrens' play time and the value of open-ended play.
I think it was in a Parents' Review article that I read that small children, particularly, need a sort of rhythm between time to play freely and time with an adult. I've found that particularly important with my youngest, who is seven. For this reason I've found it actually works better with him to drag his schoolwork out over the whole day. He is not doing schoolwork all day -- not in the least. But I found that with him, doing several subjects at once is very stressful. While short lessons broken up by times of independent play or just together-time with me seem to motivate him and keep him busy.
This probably WOULDN'T have worked when I had a bunch of littlies -- and a couple of my kids really resisted getting pulled out of their play to do "school stuff". But it is working for him and a side benefit is that it lets me pace out my energy a bit better.
I could never get a time-bound schedule to work for me, either. I suppose it's relatively recent in history that we actually HAD clocks to measure time by. We try to do things in basically the same order every day, but that's about it for home scheduling.
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Willa
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teachingmyown
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I LOVED this chapter! Mainly, because it was an affirmation of the life I have chosen for my kids.  But also, it eased some of my worries about my younger children not being involved in organized sports or lessons.
His points on organized sports were great. How our society pushes and pushes at younger ages, and then our teens are hanging out, doing nothing when they most need to be focused. Having been involved in competitive baseball with our oldest, we saw the burnout and the over-use injuries in young teens. How sad!
I would say that with the sports world for kids as it is, it is harder to hold off until 10 if you want you child to be competitive. And I don't mean competitive for the sake of being the best or a star, I just mean being able to hold his own. I have seen some athletic kids walk on the field for the first time at 10 or 11 and do just fine, though.
I just finished reading Brave New World for the first time and was struck between the parallels of what KJP sees happening in children's lives to the tenets of the Brave New World that did not allow for silence or being alone. Instead the people of that world were given constant amusement and immediate gratification, and even a drug for anytime life should seem remotely difficult. It is scary that our world isn't that far off of that.
One thing that saddened me a little is KJP's description of the neighborhood kids coming out, playing together, starting a game of baseball or football or kick the can or just climbing trees or having fairy tea parties. First of all, we don't have many kids around. Second of all, those neighborhood kids are the ones that are living this life we try so hard to avoid, so I don't really want my kids with them. Are my kids, especially my ds12 surrounded by sisters, missing what used to be an integral part of childhood? Where do I go to find those friendships when even many of the homeschoolers are so immersed in the culture of tv, video games, cell phones, and constant entertainment?
I feel like this is a little rambling. Certain wonderful children keep popping out of bed.  So, I hope it makes some sense. 
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Waverley
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I like Molly really enjoyed this chapter. We too don't tend to over-schedule but I did like KJP's discussion on page 143 about Arousing and Calming: Balanced Schedules. In summary, his point is that when a child experiences times of intense activity the child should also be provided with calming time. The intense activity (arousal) time can be time of intense activity within the home not just activities outside the home. KJP uses the example of a child who easily became over-stimulated (with the resulting difficult behaviors) around the holidays when lots of family was in her home. Her family had to remember to schedule some calming time for the child to allow her to "re-balance."
With a larger family, I think there can be a lot of times of intense activity (at least in my house  ). KJP's discussion of balancing arousal and calming times was a good reminder for me to schedule in "quiet time" during the day. Both quiet time for quiet play and quiet time for prayer.
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LisaR
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teachingmyown wrote:
His points on organized sports were great. How our society pushes and pushes at younger ages, and then our teens are hanging out, doing nothing when they most need to be focused. Having been involved in competitive baseball with our oldest, we saw the burnout and the over-use injuries in young teens. How sad!
I would say that with the sports world for kids as it is, it is harder to hold off until 10 if you want you child to be competitive. And I don't mean competitive for the sake of being the best or a star, I just mean being able to hold his own. I have seen some athletic kids walk on the field for the first time at 10 or 11 and do just fine, though.
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My boys are physical every single waking moment. I've had a few tested, and I know they all fall in the ADHD spectrum.
There is a HUGE and noticeable difference between a day that they have sports practice and a day that they don't. I allow them to run and roam in the yard and the neighborhood often. our entire basement (not the best looking place!) is geared for physical play. I'd take them to the nature center and they would run trail loop after trail loop. However, none of this wears them out like the combination of mental concentration and physical effort a well-run organized sport does.
I've always looked at Sports and Scouts not as social or "busy-outside-the-home" activities, but rather as a vital part of our home education that I cannot provide for them within the home.
I suppose I overlook and don't care if others intentions within these same areas are to fill their kids plates with overbooked schedules full of activities.....
we didn't ever go into sports to be social, but it made a huge positive social benefit for our oldest as he entered High School. He didn't/dosen't have much "hang out" time because of his serious commitment to three varsity sports, and he respects others who are scholar/athletes and motivated in this way as well.
when he does have hang out time, he makes wise decisions, because that time is precious to him..
I think that one could replace High School with college, and also sports with a musical or drama interest, with similar results??
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LisaR
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teachingmyown wrote:
Where do I go to find those friendships when even many of the homeschoolers are so immersed in the culture of tv, video games, cell phones, and constant entertainment?
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yeah!!! This has been a huge struggle for us, and continues to be one!
maybe this is why I appreciate the scheduled Soccer practice- NO media allowed or the child instantly contacts parents and sits out the week.
We do have many friendly neighborhood games of baseball, touch football, soccer, and sledding (big swath of Park District land in our Subdivision) - but I've discovered that those games will break up mid stream if someone gets an interesting (and often inapporopriate text of video...sigh)
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
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LucyP
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I love this chapter - we do embrace some elements of Waldorf, and one of the things that made most sense to me is the calm pace for young ones - not even full days at school at 7. Wow. And the breathing in and breathing out thing with activities - so makes sense to me, especially as DS and I are extreme introverts in the true sense, but also for DD who although I am certain she is an extrovert is only 2 and needs a lot of protection and nurture.
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Willa
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teachingmyown wrote:
I would say that with the sports world for kids as it is, it is harder to hold off until 10 if you want you child to be competitive. And I don't mean competitive for the sake of being the best or a star, I just mean being able to hold his own. I have seen some athletic kids walk on the field for the first time at 10 or 11 and do just fine, though.
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Great point about Brave New World. Ray Bradbury makes a similar point in Fahrenheit 411 -- the guy's wife is always plugged into a wall-sized 360 degree TV. She can't ever have a thought of her own.
KJP also mentions the addictive factor. You get accustomed to all the outside stimulation -- it's very hard to be without it.
My son was one of those who started relatively late in athletics -- he was about nine and already "behind" in skills, but because he was so athletic he caught up and passed quickly. And actually, come to think of it, in his first year of Pop Warner football when he was 12, the three MVPs were all first-time players.
I think it does get way too intense too quickly, though. We used to have a book around the house by John Madden about youth football. He said he wishes we could go back to the days of backyard football when everyone got all this unpressured experience and got to use their own creativity and initiative to keep the game going. He thought it was better football then.
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Willa
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Willa
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I am just reading this public domain book called The Family of Families (EWTN doc library). The author makes the point that Jesus had 30 hidden years before his 3 public ones, and that His Mother's life was always hidden.
It made me think a bit about KJP's point that a lot of things being juggled means a shallowness, like farm soil that doesn't get a chance to be replenished. To strike deep roots in rich soil you need time, space, nourishing, etc. We probably don't instinctively recognize this in our very production-oriented society.
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Willa
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teachingmyown
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Willa wrote:
I am just reading this public domain book called The Family of Families (EWTN doc library). The author makes the point that Jesus had 30 hidden years before his 3 public ones, and that His Mother's life was always hidden.
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Oh! I like this!
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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SusanMc
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Great discussion, great chapter. I too found the chapter affirming of some of the choices we've made in our family. My two guys are still very young but one of the major reasons we don't do MDO is that it is just too disruptive to their natural schedules. It seemed silly to me to rearrange naps, meals, and every other activity to fit in a two-morning-a-week program. Of course, there were other concerns as well but that was a major one.
I've just started a nature-study club for parents of young kids and I was really conflicted at first. I didn't want to add stress to other families. Looks like we'll be doing about one outing a month but also sharing outing information so parents can opt to do it at a time that works best for them.
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Mimip
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My favorite part of this chapter was about boredom. We do use the flatline response. We usually reply , "You're bored, oh you need more school work?" Quickly they find something to do.
I love that sometimes my kids get bored because after that they usually find some exciting things to play with all their brothers and sisters involved.
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Mimi
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stellamaris
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When my children express boredom, I always say: God gave you a good brain. Go sit in a chair until you think up something good to do.
And they always do! I never solve the boredom problem for them. Boredom is the birthplace of creativity!
Also, often as parents we think our children are doing "nothing" when, in fact, they are really deep in thoughts. I remember lying on the grass as a child and contemplating what it would be like to be an ant (long before Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!) or hanging upside over the side of the bed and trying to figure out what it would be like if the house were upside down and we walked on the ceiling. Imagination, spatial reasoning, predicting outcomes, visualizing, and lots of other brain work was going on! Maybe my parents thought I was "bored" or "wasting my time", but I consider that those moments of uninterrupted thought were crucial to my mental development.
One thing I want to comment on is the need extroverts have for a higher level of activity. I know this is true, but being that type of personality myself, I also know how important it is to have that "downtime". Although you may feel your extroverted child is a blur of social energy, that child especially needs help learning to carve out moments of solitude and rest. This type of personality is very prone to "burnout" and learning to balance active time with quiet time is a valuable lesson for such a child.
KJP wrote:
Quote:
| Activity without downtime is ultimately--like a plant without roots--unsustainable. |
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Honestly, I still struggle with this and must often rely on my dh to help me set appropriate limits on my activities.
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Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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Christine
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teachingmyown wrote:
One thing that saddened me a little is KJP's description of the neighborhood kids coming out, playing together, starting a game of baseball or football or kick the can or just climbing trees or having fairy tea parties. First of all, we don't have many kids around. Second of all, those neighborhood kids are the ones that are living this life we try so hard to avoid, so I don't really want my kids with them. Are my kids, especially my ds12 surrounded by sisters, missing what used to be an integral part of childhood? Where do I go to find those friendships when even many of the homeschoolers are so immersed in the culture of tv, video games, cell phones, and constant entertainment? |
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You move to Washington. I think that some of our children are close in age. So many times, when I read what you write, I just have to nod my head in agreement.
I haven't read the book, yet, because too many people have it on hold at the library, but I can relate to this statement from Molly. When I was a child, my siblings and I spent many happy hours playing outside with the neighbor children. My children play outside under my supervision.
My children do enjoy playing with their friends after Mass, either on the playground or at the potluck. I never had this. We used to head home or to some wonderful friends of my parents. They also like spending time with friends from our homeschool group. I have found that they naturally gravitate towards other children who don't watch tv, play video games, or use cell phones.
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Simpl. Parenting Ch 5: Schedules
