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MicheleQ
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MicheleQ wrote:
Natalia wrote:
What does Novus Ordo mass should look like?
Natalia |
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That's a BIG question and one that is going to take some time to answer. Rather than answer it here I'll start a new thread over at Living Faith.
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OK I'm here but I REALLY haven't had time to work on this today. Fortunately there is an article online by Fr. Fessio called The Mass of Vatican II that addresses all this quite well. In any case it should get us started. If you are interested, read it, quote from it and let's get this discussion going.
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
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Natalia
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I am interested Michelle. Maybe I 'll have a chance to read the article later tonight.
thanks,
natalia
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SuzC
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Thank you for starting this thread Michele. I will read the article so we can discuss. I'm still thinking about that Mass...almost a week later. Obviously I'm a bit surprised by my reaction and eager to learn more.
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Erin
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Interesting and timely. I've only just been discussign Vatican 2 with my children, what was meant to happen and what did happen. And why is was called in the first place etc. Children were very interested and dd12 wants to know more about Vatican 2etc. I'll be reading this with interest.
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Elizabeth
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Here's an oldie but goodie, written by the late Bishop Keating, who was bishop of the Arlington diocese until his death. I think it's helpful to bear in mind the adge, "How we worship is how we believe." Just as we need to read and understand the catechism and to really know our faith, we need not let Mass just be something we do mindlessly. We must purposefully discern what it is God intended and then we need to act. What Mass is it that He wants us to offer?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Natalia
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I am still reading the article. It is a great article. It has changed my way of looking at this issue.
When I first came to the US and started to hear all this discussion about the mass , it really didn't make much sense to me. Where I am from those things are not an issue. Mass is said in Spanish and with the priest facing the people and, as far as I know, nobody thinks it should be done other wise. The diffierence is that usually there are not flagrant liturgical abuses: dance at mass, inclusive language, etc. For me all this discussion was just a making a big deal out of nothing. Now I understand it better.
As I said I am still reading the article. I have a historical question though: Why did the council thought that liturgical reform was needed? How was the liturgy like? where there abuses?
I'll come back later with more comments and some quotes.
Natalia
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MicheleQ
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Natalia wrote:
I am still reading the article. It is a great article. It has changed my way of looking at this issue.
As I said I am still reading the article. I have a historical question though: Why did the council thought that liturgical reform was needed? How was the liturgy like? where there abuses?
Natalia |
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A quote of another article is probably the best answer (and easier I admit)  . Truly it's a good explanantion:
From Liturgical reforms were valid but defective by Michael Houser
The Roman Rite itself received new features through its contact, for instance, with the Gallican Rite in the early middle ages. New devotions and styles of artistic expression arose over time. The Romanesque gave way to the Gothic, which gave way to the Baroque, and the Church was the richer for it. Yet never was a liturgical revolution a la 1960's ever considered. In 1570, Pope St. Pius V met the challenge of the Protestant heresy by making the rite of the Church of Rome mandatory all over the West, and publishing an authoritative version of the Missal. This Missal, however, was emphatically not a new rite, devised by a committee. It was simply the old rite put in a definitive book form.
While Pius's action brought unity to a Church attacked by Protestantism, it also put an end to any developments within the rite. The liturgy came to be looked on in an increasingly legalistic and often minimalistic way. We all have heard the stories of how in the years before the council, Catholics would pray the rosary or other private devotions during Mass. It is safe to say that the true spirit of the Liturgy was obscured. But in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the Liturgical Movement began in an effort to recover much of the beauty of the Liturgy, and its centrality for Catholic life. This movement, characterized by people such as Dom Gueranger and Pius Parsch, aimed primarily not at adapting the ancient rite to modernity, but at recovering a sometimes obscured tradition. It was this movement which we have to thank for the revival of Gregorian chant. And it was some of the leaders of this movement, such as the late Msgr. Klaus Gamber, who were most appalled by what happened after the Council.
The Council itself clearly mandated some liturgical reform. It spoke much about the active participation of the faithful in the liturgy (a goal of the liturgical movement), and said that "the rite of Mass is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts...may be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation of the faithful may be more easily achieved."
This is rather ambiguous in itself, but it seems clear to me that what the Fathers thought they were voting for was a revision of the existing Roman Rite. Few would have dreamed that in fact, the Roman Rite everyone had known would be altered beyond recognition.
A rite that had stood unchanged since 1570, and virtually unchanged since sometime in the first millennium, was suddenly entrusted to a commission led by Archbishop Annibale Bugnini to reform it. But anyone who has seen both the old and the new rites will agree that what we got was in fact basically a new rite, devised by the Archbishop Bugnini's commission in accord with their conjectures of what ancient liturgy had been like, and their ideas of what was necessary for "modern man." Most obvious to everyone, of course, is that the Latin language, which the Council document clearly did not envision disappearing, did in fact disappear for all practical purposes. But it's not just the language. Look at other things. The Canon of the Mass, no longer silent, but spoken aloud; the priest's lovely prayers at the foot of the altar eliminated, the offertory prayers almost completely re-written. Most significant of all, to my mind, the orientation of the altar is changed such that Mass is now celebrated facing the congregation.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
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Nina Murphy
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I am finding this very interesting and hope more comment on the article...I haven't finished it.
We are blessed to attend a beautiful parish that is chaplained by the F.S.S.P and is consequently, according to the traditional rite. Many beautiful devotions and celebrations. Nothing brings me joy on Sunday like seeing my boys serve the Traditional Mass on the altar----very awe-inspiring. And the MUSIC!!! 
(I grew up with spiritual dancing down the aisles and Catholic Mass-as-rock-concert, so it's different....to say the least.  )
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KellyJ
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I really like this book regarding these sorts of questions: Reform of the Reform?
Ignatius happens to have it half-off right now -- less than I paid for it.
KellyJ
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MacBeth
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The Curt Jester blog is worth reading for this discussion.
Hate to post and run , but we are heaidng out on vacation. I hope to pop in as we travel.
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MacBeth in NY
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Natalia
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I haven't abandoned this thread. I am swamped with school planning. Hope to come back to this in the next few days.
Natalia
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Liturgical Reform and the Novus Ordo
