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Dawn
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I'm sure there have been threads on this before, but I wanted to share something that happened last night at a church meeting. I am kind of bemused but kind of upset too ...
I have mentioned before we are new to our parish within the past year and so are just now getting to know the families. We attend Mass every Sunday, but we go to the 8:00, not the Children's at 10, so I'm kind of a newbie in this circle of moms. I attended a program last night called Protecting God's Children; anyone who will be volunteering with children this year (which I plan to do starting with VBS this summer) needed to attend.
Anyway, as we are waiting for the class to start I am talking with this friendly woman who is telling me how much we'll love this new parish, how great everyone is, and then she goes on to lament, her voice dropped to a whisper, how some of the moms, after the 2nd grade, take their kids out of the program to (gasp) homeschool their kids for religion! 
So I said, "Well, we homeschool for religion ..." and she just kind of looked at me incredulously. The conversation just kind of trickled away after that.
Next, the women who are running the class start by introducing themselves and one of them (who's a public school teacher) makes a "confession" that she tried to homeschool her kids for CCD and that it was just a terrible experience and it is just not a good idea for anyone to do, period. (Of course I felt she was looking right at me.)
Gulp.  … So ten minutes later it's my turn to introduce myself and it's "Hi, I'm Dawn, and I homeschool my kids for CCD and oh, yeah, everything else too!"  So that got a good laugh especially when someone said "Well no wonder you're here, you need a night out!" 
Sigh … I had held off doing CCD until we got comfortable here, plus we do so much at home and we had a poor experience with CCD in our previous parish (behaviors by kids and teachers, lack of respect and reverence etc.). But my middle son makes his FHC next year and oldest wants to get to know more kids, so I thought we'd give it a try. So far we've flown under the radar, and now I feel all intimidated. 
Where was I going with all this? I'm not sure, I just needed a place to vent a bit. I was also wondering what kind of "reputation" homeschoolers had in your parish, if it was as frowned upon as it obviously is here.
Thanks for listening! 
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Elizabeth
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I really think it's a parish by parish thing, and on some level, a diocesan thing. OUr previous bishop, God rest his soul, was great friend to homeschoolers and the friendly tone did permeate the parishes, to some degree. My current parish is very open to homeschooling and the pastor is a huge support, both spiritually and practically. In my last parish, the first pastor accepted that we were homeschooling and I we could have received sacraments without too much struggle. No tangible support, but no resistance either. The new pastor was adamantly opposed to it and required two years of CCD before the sacraments were received.
I did sense a cliquishness that is probably natural. Moms with kids in our neighborhood schools see each other in so many different circles. They were not purposefully exclusive or unkind but it soon became apparent that my life--my home life, my education life, and most importantly, my spiritual life--was very different from theirs. I hadn't realized how much the company I keep (you all) and the lifestyle in which I'm immersed does set me apart from the mainstream.
There are plenty of likeminded people in our current parish (hi, Irene!).
I much prefer sports for social interaction "with the world out there" than religious education. My sense is that your creeping sense of wariness last night is just the beginning..
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KC in TX
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In my parish, which I've only been a member for 6 months, the priest is very homeschool friendly. He allows homeschoolers to take their sacraments without attending CCD. He will speak with each individual child and question them on their knowledge and determine whether the child is ready. That tipped the scales in favor of this parish even though there was another one I would like to have joined. There are many homeschool families in this parish. We've all just started to get together after daily mass in the mornings--you can always tell who is homeschooling by their attendance at daily mass.
I agree with Elizabeth that our choices tend to set us apart from people. I find some people just don't know how to respond to us.
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Cay Gibson
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Dawn,
I agree with Elizabeth that "...your creeping sense of wariness last night is just the beginning."
But it is a parish by parish, or diocese by diocese thing. Because I worked in the church office of our parish for so many years, everyone knows us and knows we hs. Our pastor, who will be retiring in July  , has always been supportive of hsers as was the pastor before him. They both allow homestudy for CCD. One year, our immediate pastor even offered a Latin class for homeschoolers.
Our previous bishop was adamantly against hsing but he has left and we are still waiting a new bishop...it's been over a year. 
Anyway, our DRE and secretary are retiring this summer and they asked me to take the DRE position. No thanks!  That would have been the end of me there.  So they asked if I'd consider doing the secretarial work and being the go-between for hsers. I'll probably give it a try and see how it goes.
But I get a sense that your new parish isn't as friendly or cooperative. Is there a more conservative parish near you that welcomes hsers?
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Mare
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Hi Dawn,
I think I know how you are feeling. As far as I know, we are the first homeschoolers in our parish. I am not sure what our parish priests and DRE think about homescoolers. It has never come up in our conversations.
It is not easy blazing the homeschool trail. Recently, I had a conversation with another parishoner that continued in a friendly manner after I said we homeschooled. I was actually quite stunned.  I am so use to conversations literally stopping the moment parishoners find out we homeschool.
We are sending our dd to CCD at her request. She asked if she could go to CCD so that she could make her FHC with the children from the parish. I'm not going to push for "CCD at home" until my dd expresses a need for change in our current arrangement. I'm really am looking at this set up as a way for her to meet other parishoners her age.
If I've learned anything from this whole homeschool experience so far, it is to be aware of those who are considered the fringes of society and not to completely brush them off just because they do things differently than the rest of us do.
Peace,
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This may sound like a strange question but why is it that some in the church are against homeschooling? In particular the clergy? We are the only homeschoolers in about a 100 km (60 mile) radius and I only homeschool my oldest (still trying to convince my dh to let me homeschool the rest ). Why would the church be against it?
Just wondering...
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Dawn
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Taffy wrote:
| This may sound like a strange question but why is it that some in the church are against homeschooling? Just wondering... |
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It's a good question, and one I don't have much experience with till now.
I guess the good thing is there are apparently already homeschoolers in our parish so the trail has been blazed. And I also guess I shouldn't jump to conclusions because I have yet to formally register my kids for CCD ~ that will be the first weekend in June and I'll find out how flexible they are then. I am nervous though to have them ask what on earth have I done with them at home - of course lots!! -- but not anything workbookish.
As for negative attitudes, I think as was mentioned above, mothers with kids in the mainstream "system" (school, classes, brownies, choir etc.) already have a common ground and a frame of reference with each other. I can be as friendly as I want to be (and I'd like to think I am) but once I drop the H-bomb it's like I've suddenly sprouted horns.
Thanks everyone for responding. I felt so out of place last night; it's nice to come here today and talk with kindred spirits.
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Dawn, this may sound simplistic, but I have always found that if I am consistently upbeat and never defensive, people come to accept homeschooling, even if they have negative preconceptions. If you keep going to the parish with a smile on your face and something good to say, people's attitudes really do change.
And if anyone asks whether homeschooling can be interesting, fun, educational, and permeated with Catholic Truth, just give out the URL to "By Sun and Candlelight."  You are just the person to turn others around.
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Dawn
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alicegunther wrote:
| And if anyone asks whether homeschooling can be interesting, fun, educational, and permeated with Catholic Truth, just give out the URL to "By Sun and Candlelight." You are just the person to turn others around. |
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Alice, you are so kind; thank you so much for saying that.
I was telling my mum about what happened and she had similar advice: just keep being friendly and being myself. Show what it means to be a Catholic homeschooling mother. It is always my hope that by the time people find out we homeschool they already have a good opinion of us. And maybe we've tweaked their perceptions of homeschooling a bit. 
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i am the first hser in my parish and my experience has been wonderful. the priest and dre have been very kind, respectful of what we have done and complimentary. i have noticed however, that they have a serious problem with regard to ccd students whose parents put the students in for ccd in 2nd grade but don't take the children to mass. father has commented to parents (at fc meetings) many times about this issue. i've also heard that many of these parents will now skip ccd, say they are hsing religion and then not show up again (for either mass or any religious ed) until confirmation. if this is the experience a parish has of hsing, i can well understand the impression that "hsers" are doing a poor job.
dawn, i don't know that this is the situation in your parish, i'm just passing along what i discovered in my own. i totally agree with alice in that, if you but link them to your blog, they will surely be impressed with the hsing you are doing.
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tracym
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Our parish has gone through several different priests-all with different opinions. I was told last year I couldn't homeschool my ds(which really isn't true but since they said it I went along). But he really struggled since K and so this year I took him out. My dd is doing a grade above her age so I am doing 1st with her this year also. Even though until this year my ds went to the CCD program at church we also did things here which is why I figure he is getting more here than there. Especially when we do it every day here versus just once a week. We also have a homeschool friendly priest this year so that also has helped alot!
But I have to agree that I did find out a lot of what happened here also was parents signed up to "homeschool" their kids RE and would also take them out after 2nd grade and not go to mass and attend other functions. I think it is a shame that many took advantage of that option.
Next year I know I'll hs them again but my dd has asked to go to classes. However if you go by age then she wouldn't be making FHC and I don't know if they would accept that or not.
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ALmom
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Mary, there are people in our area that do that (show up to ask for sacraments but do not attend CCD or the parish in any other way)- mostly because they have gotten discouraged with the various disregard for the rubrics (I'm not saying this to justify or condemn) and simply go to Mass every Sunday at one of the convents and often even daily. These folks here are attending Mass on a regular basis, just not at a parish and the children are generally very well educated in their faith and other aspects. However, Father doesn't necessarily have any way to know this.
Pray, Pray, Pray! We have always found the priests accomodating for us and generally deal directly with them unless told to go elsewhere by Father. We attempt to show cooperation and support to Father - not necessarily by attending CCD (it might be by having him over for dinner or going to parish family functions or using skills we have to serve the parish if we are able). We do our own religious ed - but attended once per month for Confirmation Prep. for a few months as the pastor requested it and we felt we needed to proceed according to his requests unless we saw something objectionable. There wasn't anything particularly harmful to dd so we felt it best to simply do what Father asked. Had there been something wrong, or that we felt we could not allow dd to attend, we would have approached Father about it and gone from there.
I basically let Father know when I think dc are ready for Sacraments and go from there. Usually we have not had any problem and this is the first year the priest asked us to sign up for the Confirmation Prep - and we did. I attended with dc, adjusted some things I felt would not be good for her with approval of the DRE. It was somewhat inconvenient, but worth the effort to make Fathers life a bit easier. There were some beneficial hand-outs, etc. and the deadline was good for us to stay on track with our own preparation. Our dd did not feel any more connected to the parish in having participated which was why the DRE thought we should attend. It was more snacking than doctrine most of the time and there were some games that made my dd very awkward, but nothing terribly harmful for this particular child. We did not do the overnight retreat.
By canon law, the Sacraments cannot be denied for any reason other than lack of readiness. Failure to attend religious ed programs or to use certain materials is not lack of readiness and the Vatican has stood behind families on that one. Most priests I know are quite aware of this, but they do have a duty to ascertain readiness. If asked "what they want" or approached in a timid sort of way, they may tell you to put dc in CCD as that is the way most are doing things - but if approached with a child ready for the sacraments, they then are often more than happy to simply ascertain readiness in a way that is not too burdensome to them or anyone else. I feel that cooperating with the pastor and doing what needs to be done for your family will see you through.
If the program is harmful (or for whatever reason, truely impossible for your family) then you do your duty as parents and go from there. If it is simply inconvenient, a bit sloppy or loose then you have to pray and discern what God wants, to what extent it is likely to harm your dc, and at what point does your duty as a parent require action - and what action - always weighing the value of being cooperative with your pastor as a living example of obedience and submission to authority (which is the big problem in the church and society today, imo). I also always have to look at my motives - am I humble or rash?
You just cannot worry about "fitting" in. Some will accept you and some won't, some will ignore you (the hardest to take, personally) and some will begin to seek you out as they see the good in your family and dc.
By being consistently kind, operating from the best motives (your primary duty as parents and your desire to support Father), you are more than likely going to build up positive references and make it easier and easier for other homeschoolers.
Janet
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MacBeth
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Dawn, I reread you post and smiled. I got a very Massachusetts feel from it. When I meet people with my aunt, she likes to mention that her next-door neighbors are homeschoolers. When the the people roll their eyes, and my aunt will say, "My niece homeschools her kids, too, but they are different!"
More than any place I have ever been, and I have traveled extensively, the whole mandatory schooling thing feels like such ingrained an attitude in MA, and the public schools seem to be worshipped in a very unhealthy way (IMHO).
As for the CCD thing...as Msgr. said to the CCD parents in a homily a few weeks ago, "If you would bring your children to Mass, there would not be such a need for CCD classes." But are we not in a society where we are told by everyone that we need to call a professional to do...whatever? Everyone must be licensed or certified.
Don't you ever just want to say, "You don't educate your own children? I could never leave so important a job up to a stranger."
Sorry my thoughts are so scattered today...busy busy busy!!
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Dawn
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MacBeth wrote:
| More than any place I have ever been, and I have traveled extensively, the whole mandatory schooling thing feels like such ingrained an attitude in MA, and the public schools seem to be worshipped in a very unhealthy way (IMHO). |
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Oh, Macbeth, I agree! And I have only ever lived in MA. I often hear homeschoolers (from elsewhere) say how positivley they are received when they tell someone they are homeschoolers, and I think, "Huh?"
Definitely in MA there is a roll-the-eyes kind of attitude about HS-ers. They either think we are wacky or else downright weird. Now I can be both of those things on occasion, but when it comes to my children I only want the best. (Best = a whole, living, faith-filled HOME education!)
Now the funny thing was, the older lady on my left, who was a retired teacher from the Berkshires, thought my homeschooling was just grand! She talked my ear off all night.
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In looking at different parishes for when we move, I have noticed several offer a HSing option, but NOT til after 2nd grade is completed. I assume this is bc sacremental prep is too important to be left in the hands of the parents? (tongue in cheek) I also noticed there is a $60 fee to HS your child.
My nearest atrium will be at an episcopal church and when I enquired I was told catechism is free to parishioners. Since we wont be parishioners I am not sure how it will be handled, but I am curious to find out. I am also curious to see how priests react to my children receiving their faith formation thru a non catholic church, and slightly worried about it. Obviously we will work at home on specifically catholic teachings, but... slightly worried.
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MacBeth
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abcmommy wrote:
I also noticed there is a $60 fee to HS your child.
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What, pray tell, do you get for your $60? The right to homeschool????? The right to use their dumbed down workbooks? I would be very reluctant to fork over the dough.
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Our parish has a fee for homeschooling RE as well. I think it's for materials. The materials are NOT good, nor would I use them with my children. We are looking for other alternatives for the children making FHC, as this situation won't work for us. I tried to show the Director of Religious Ed. our books - First Communion Catechism, Seton Religion 2 FYC, Living My Religion series, and CHC's 2nd grade lesson plans for the supplementary resources. I don't think she ever got over the fact that I homeschool "all the subjects." Then she wondered how I could ever read the catechism to children, "that must be boring for them" . She proceeded to tell me that my books were outdated and not ok with the diocese. In fact she said, "I would throw out any book not written within the past five years" for educating the children in matters of faith (my curiosity, but I didn't ask, does that include the Bible ). She was angry when Father decided to (finally) make it so that First Reconciliation came BEFORE First Holy Communion.
Anyway, we are looking into other options for the children. Father wants us to "go through the motions" with the DRE and won't just let us do our own thing even though he thinks it is good. Right now, it seems like we will just have to go to another parish in town that is more homeschool friendly. I just prefer our parish, as it is just 3 blocks away. Oh well...
Christine
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Dawn
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MacBeth wrote:
abcmommy wrote:
I also noticed there is a $60 fee to HS your child.
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What, pray tell, do you get for your $60? The right to homeschool????? The right to use their dumbed down workbooks? I would be very reluctant to fork over the dough. |
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Well, sign-ups were today and it was $100 for each child! No wonder so many parishioners "homeschool CCD" ... they probably can't afford otherwise!
We were also asked to sign up for some sort of volunteer service before we could enroll our children. Sister had me answering phones in the office during class time before she realized I am helping out at VBS this year and I was in the clear!
Thanks everyone for your support in this thread (and all across the boards, of course). I had a bag packed with our CHC lesson plans, Catholic Mosaic and a few other things in case our homeschool status was questioned, but it wasn't even mentioned.
BTW, middle ds (7 in August) was not happy about signing up for this. Right in the library as all the parents are filling out forms at a table, he's asks me "Well what is this CCD anyway?" So I'm trying to quietly and simply explain that he will be learning catechism, and about Jesus and Mary, and the saints and Church etc. And he says - really loudly - "But we already do that at home all the time!"
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: CCD and homeschoolers
