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Topic: Religion program NOT Faith and Life?

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EmilyC
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Posted: June 28 2013 at 5:24pm \| IP Logged

For years I've used Faith and Life, in fact I own all the books in the series. However, I've noticed that my boys are not getting anything out of it. They find the readings boring and can never answer either my questions or the activity book questions without a LOT of help.

They are very workbooky, so I'd like to find a program that is workbook based, but I'm coming up short.

Can anyone guide me to a program they might enjoy?

Thanks!

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Martha
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Posted: June 28 2013 at 7:45pm \| IP Logged

I can't think of any workbook based. Maybe Seton? But I don't know that you would get any more fromit than F&L.

I like the Baltimore Catechism.

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Posted: June 28 2013 at 8:18pm \| IP Logged

My oldest really didn't like Faith and Life, either.

This year, aside from the Baltimore Catechism memorization that they do in Classically Catholic Memory, we are going to try the Pflaum Gospel Weeklies. You can take a look at sample pages here:

http://www.pflaumweeklies.com/onlinelessons/venture.htm

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Martha
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Posted: June 28 2013 at 8:40pm \| IP Logged

Oh yes. We use Classically Catholic Memory too.

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CrunchyMom
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Posted: June 28 2013 at 9:26pm \| IP Logged

I'm not imagining that something else workbooky will help them answer questions better if F& L isn't. Have you tried using The Baltimore Catechism? I used th FHC version for 2nd and will use No. 1 for 4th (and the FHC again for my new 2nd grader) with third grade being a bit of a break using St. Patrick's summer and some other books. A lot of friends like how the MODG syllabus combines the catechism with scripture readings, but I don't think you can buy the religion for the elementary grades separate from the general lesson plans. I include saint stories and scripture reading, too, and the BC isn't really a stand alone for faith formation, but it is a proven method for acquiring the fundamentals of our faith in a way that is easily recalled.

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CrunchyMom
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Posted: June 28 2013 at 9:32pm \| IP Logged

Having reread both what you wrote and what I've written, you might consider just taking a hiatus from programs and texts in general and spend some time reading and discussing more living books. I mentioned St. patrick's Summer, but we like all of the Marigold Hunt books. We also like Inos Biffi's books and My Path to Heaven, and many families love King of the Golden City, which has lesson plans from CHC, I think.

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stacykay
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Posted: June 28 2013 at 9:33pm \| IP Logged

My boys aren't fans of F&L, either. We just use the Baltimore Catechism, which seems to be what F&L is based on, but a more straight-forward approach, with memorizing and questions and answers, minus the beautiful art. I don't know if it's the smaller size of the book, or that the lessons seems shorter, or what, but BC is more appealing to them.

Although we are allowed to homeschool religion, our parish requires F&L, so I have just gone through it, making sure our BC covers everything. Are there any guidelines at your parish?

I have the Classically Catholic Memory for next year, so I will be anxious to see how that will fit in with our "religion" program. We don't do anything fancy, BC, go over the upcoming Sunday readings M-F, read a saint book, and that's about it for the "formal" teaching. There is so much more, though, that comes in day-to-day life. They've pretty much memorized the basic prayers by age 4 or 5, but any others I want them to cover, we do within our poetry/memorization.

If you want the workbook approach, I second Seton's religion.

In Christ,
Stacy in MI

Martha
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Posted: June 28 2013 at 10:49pm \| IP Logged

Have you considered investing in saint books?

Here are some sets to consider in part or whole:

Windeatt
Vision
Along the Path of the Saints
Encounter the Saints
De Wohl

I have a list here of some of them organized by feast days:
http://marthaamdg.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/saint-books-an d-feast-days.doc

I think I will try to update it next month. Reading and discussing the saints and celebrating their feast would be a nice change of pace and educational way to learn the faith.

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SuzanneG
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Posted: June 29 2013 at 12:59am \| IP Logged

Hi, Emily!
I know you said you DID want a workbook. But, since you said they aren't "getting anything out of them," would you want to brainstorm some other ways of learning their Faith?

I'm taking a chance here and even if it's not something you'd even consider (leaving the workbooks behind) I'm posting in case it helps anyone else.

Now, all of this TOGETHER, may seem overwhelming at first glance, but my guess is that you are doing something/s in each category already!

The workbooks tend to combine things already for you, which is the ease of use that is so attractive. But, if it's not working and they are fighting it, it's one subject where I would consider making a change.

**********I tend to think of "passing on the faith" in the following CATEGORIES. It helps me to prioritize and evaluate where each child is individually and what we will do as a family. ************

:: Catechism. Baltimore? Or something else with a few questions to memorize. At age 10, I always start thinking, "Confirmation!" Even if they don't get confirmed until age 15, you're laying a good foundation. So, getting them to memorize the Gifts of the HS, Definitions of the Sacraments. Precepts of the Church. I just LOVE all of our discussions that are the result of simple question and answer format. I LOVE the question/answer Catechism format.

There are a few threads we can dig up about HOW to use a ques/answ catechism at this age. Or I can give you a "weekly example" which REALLY is 10 minutes on a Monday. Then 3-5 minutes for 2-3 other days.

:: Bible Study. At this age, would they read a children's bible and narrate? Or, if they are more advanced readers, we can brainstorm other bibles/sources. I "count"

Bible DVDs and bible-movies in this category. They are only 10, so if you had to prioritize this, it could wait.

:: Living Saint Books. At this age, picture books would be great, but if they are good readers, maybe compilation-books (such as Saints and Heroes for Kids, or even longer chapter books about one particular saint maybe during your history period that you're studying? CHECK! History and Religion.

:: Apologetics. At age 10, this would depend on their maturity and interest. I'm listing it, because it's the age I would start to prep them a bit...setting the stage for it in a couple of years. Perhaps Friendly Defenders??....maybe a BIT too old for your 10 yo...depending on where they're at, but maybe worth considering. Even 5 questions for the year would be GREAT and a wonderful start to them learning, explaining and defending. What aspects are they interested in? Can you focus on that and get them to dive into that?

:: Liturgical Year. Self-explanatory. As simple or as detailed as you want!

:: Prayer/Spiritual Life. I think of this as my role as "spiritual director" to your child. ie: Helping with exam-conscience for confession. Reviewing prayers. Mass Study/understanding. Helping guide them to virtues/vices they work on. Leading small "meditative prayers" as a family. I also think of our family's prayer life together in this category.

************

Some of these things, maybe your family is getting in another capacity and I totally count that! ie: in our American Heritage troop in years past, they focused a lot on the Holy Spirit one year, and another year on American Saints. So, on those years, I backed off on these things/categories at home.

Right now, we have a wonderful priest who is doing a series of talks on meditative prayer for children. He gives a talk, leads them in meditation, really interacts with them. So, I've sort of "checked that off" for right now, and focused on other things.

***********************

I will have a 10 year old girl this year. I don't have everything laid out for her "religion" yet for next year, but I could sort of write an example of what I'm considering for her, if that would help.

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EmilyC
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Posted: June 29 2013 at 6:56am \| IP Logged

Thank you - you have all given me lots to think about.

I've never used the Baltimore Catechism, because I figured F&L was the same thing, but maybe they'd do better with it.

I was planning on adding bible reading to our morning time - they think that children's bibles are too babyish now, so I'm thinking we'll choose 1 OT book and 1 NT book and read through them. They love to draw and make pokemon cards and things like that, so I'm brainstorming a "Who's Who in the Bible" card game type thing that they could design.

I just bought Saint Patrick's Summer, so I can add that into our morning time too, maybe once or twice a week so I can stretch it out over the year.

I've been neglecting the Liturgical Year lately, we just got out of the habit of checking to see what feast days were coming up. I'm going to work on doing at least one Feast per month, and maybe choose a Saint of the Month to study.

Looking at what I've just typed out, it seems like a lot. But, I think it's doable, and I think it would be much more meaningful to my boys than the F&L books have been.

Suzanne, I would love to see exactly how you use the BC as well as your religion plans for your 10 year old - it might help me work out exactly how to schedule everything I've got planned. Thank you.

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leanne maree
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Posted: June 29 2013 at 6:57am \| IP Logged

My dc at that age quite liked seton faith series.
We also read aloud any Sain books and apologetics series.
A life of Our Lord for children -marigold hunt- and others in the Series.
Thes were her favourite books.
It certainly got us into many great discussions.

Leanne

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stacykay
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Posted: June 29 2013 at 7:18am \| IP Logged

EmilyC wrote:

Thank you - you have all given me lots to think about.

I've never used the Baltimore Catechism, because I figured F&L was the same thing, but maybe they'd do better with it.

...

In reviewing F&L, to make sure we don't miss anything, it does seem that the chapters in F&L follow the lessons in BC. But, as I mentioned, for whatever reason, my boys do better with BC. I'm not sure why, though!

Also, this is probably more applicable to a new thread, but a local church is planning on changing confirmation to 5th grade. If anyone is interested in their reasoning, here is the link.
(eta: Oops,

this link takes you to all, or at least many, of the parish videos. Scroll down to "confirmation conversation.")

In Christ,
Stacy in MI

SuzanneG
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Posted: July 03 2013 at 10:53am \| IP Logged

EmilyC wrote:

Suzanne, I would love to see exactly how you use the BC as well as your religion plans for your 10 year old - it might help me work out exactly how to schedule everything I've got planned. Thank you.

Yes! Will do. I'm working on this over the next week....remind me if I forget.

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JennGM
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Posted: July 03 2013 at 11:08am \| IP Logged

SuzanneG wrote:

**********I tend to think of "passing on the faith" in the following CATEGORIES. It helps me to prioritize and evaluate where each child is individually and what we will do as a family. ************

:: Catechism. Baltimore? Or something else with a few questions to memorize. At age 10, I always start thinking, "Confirmation!" Even if they don't get confirmed until age 15, you're laying a good foundation. So, getting them to memorize the Gifts of the HS, Definitions of the Sacraments. Precepts of the Church. I just LOVE all of our discussions that are the result of simple question and answer format. I LOVE the question/answer Catechism format.

There are a few threads we can dig up about HOW to use a ques/answ catechism at this age. Or I can give you a "weekly example" which REALLY is 10 minutes on a Monday. Then 3-5 minutes for 2-3 other days.

:: Bible Study. At this age, would they read a children's bible and narrate? Or, if they are more advanced readers, we can brainstorm other bibles/sources. I "count"

Michele Quigley and I were discussing on the category of Scripture would be "covered" if you are daily or weekly going over the Mass readings, particularly Sunday.

Reading and discussing the Mass readings of the day, or at least Sundays and feast days, covers both areas of Liturgical Year and Bible study.

Today, for example, the feast of St. Thomas the Apostle, the Gospel reading is so wonderful, and then discussion branches out into the Eucharist, saying "My Lord and My God." Scripture, Liturgical year, Saint all Check, Check, Check.

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Posted: July 03 2013 at 5:02pm \| IP Logged

JennGM wrote:

Michele Quigley and I were discussing on the category of Scripture would be "covered" if you are daily or weekly going over the Mass readings, particularly Sunday.

We like Living Faith Kids for a quick Bible reading and discussion. I really love, though, that we do Scripture memory weekly. I choose a verse or passage that will be read at Sunday's mass, and we memorize it all week. I've noticed that my 7YO is much more attentive at mass when he is listening for something, and it is such great character formation, of course.

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SuzanneG
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Posted: July 17 2013 at 8:04pm \| IP Logged

EmilyC wrote:

I would love to see exactly how you use the BC

I have a 4th grader and a 6th grader doing their catechism together. We use The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism, No. 1. Each have their own copy. They have been doing this together for about 2 years, so I am not involved anymore nearly as much as I was at the beginning.

Day 1
:: Monday - With Mom - read through explanations and discuss any illustrations. Child #1-mom reads question, child answers. Then with Child #2- mom reads question, child answers. They each listen to the other.   With mom - Discuss "Discussion Questions" at the back of the chapter.   I schedule about 30 minutes for this. Most of the time it does NOT take this long (usually only about 15-20 min) ......but some chapters beg for more discussion, so I like to assume more time. Also, if we have some extra time, I go through previous chapter questions to keep up the memorization and wording and understanding. Maybe 2-5 min with each child.

Day 2
:: Both kids ask each other the questions. Give answers. Reading from the book.   Depending on how many questions are in one lesson, you could break this up, depending on how your kids do with memorizing. ie: 3 questions one week, three questions the next week. So, you're staying on one lesson for more than one week, which is fine, of course. You want to set them up for success, so don't ask for too many questions to be memorized at once, unless you know they can handle it. My girls have been doing this for awhile, so they know what they can handle, so I don't really have anything to do with how they are breaking them up. But, if they were new at it, I would look at the questions on Monday and make some marks in the book for ONLY "those questions" to be worked on that week.

:: Do YES / NO questions together and explain your answers to each other. (When they were new at this, I made sure they were doing it at the breakfast bar when I was making lunch, so I could listen in and help break up any arguments, or one child rushing the other.

Day 3
:: Both kids ask each other the questions. Give answers. Reading from the book. Then try to do it memorized without looking at the book.
:: Do fill in the blanks.

Day 4
:: Both kids ask each other the questions. Give answers. No book. If they are having trouble, work on it with each other.
:: Look up 2 of the other bible readings. Read aloud.

Day 5
:: Mom asks questions to each (memorization). Mom asks 1 or 2 of the discussion questions to make sure they can explain in their own words.
:: Decide if they should move on to next chapter or stay on this one.

****************************

Now, because you have boys and they are on the "younger side" of my two who are doing it, and because this is new to them......you're going to have to be involved much more than I am. But, the goal, is that they can do it together after awhile.

Also, if you see them getting glassy eyed and complaining that this is "boring"....REALLY break it down and make it FAST!!!! And, I mean UNDER 5 minutes fast! If you start getting resistance, just focus on the "Monday morning lesson".....which you could cut in half.....only do HALF the explanations and then do the corresponding 1 or 2 questions for that week.   Forget the "things at the back of the chapter" and just work for a couple minutes every day on memorizing / reading through 1-3 questions.

:: You ask question.
:: He READS the answer, unless he WANTS to recite it without the book, but don't force the issue.
:: Next child....you ask question
:: He READS the answer.

That's it.

Then build from there. Think of how you would help a K or 1st grader to memorize a poem. And, build from there.

This is a non-negotiable in our house, so I really want to set them up for success, b/c it's something they'll be doing until they graduate. So, I'm in NO HURRY and I want them to think of it as "no big deal." It shouldn't be painful. It doesn't have to be fun, but it COULD be!

I've seen the gleam in their eyes when they memorize hard passages and are able to explain the faith in their own words, but using words they have memorized.

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Suzanne in ID
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pmeilaen
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Posted: July 20 2013 at 1:21pm \| IP Logged

SuzanneG wrote:

EmilyC wrote:

I would love to see exactly how you use the BC

I have a 4th grader and a 6th grader doing their catechism together. We use The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism, No. 1.

Are you planning on doing this with Catechism No. 2 as well? I have noticed that getting through Catechism No. 1 is not a big deal, but we always get stuck with No. 2.

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SuzanneG
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Posted: July 30 2013 at 2:21pm \| IP Logged

pmeilaen wrote:

SuzanneG wrote:

EmilyC wrote:

I would love to see exactly how you use the BC

I have a 4th grader and a 6th grader doing their catechism together. We use The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism, No. 1.

Are you planning on doing this with Catechism No. 2 as well? I have noticed that getting through Catechism No. 1 is not a big deal, but we always get stuck with No. 2.

We're not there yet, so I can't answer, but I had envisioned doing this, although not so much emphasis on the memorization, but on the topics, discussion, etc.

Would love to hear how others use No. 2!

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Suzanne in ID
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Posted: July 30 2013 at 4:29pm \| IP Logged

SuzanneG wrote:

Would love to hear how others use No. 2!

Baltimore Catechism #2 :: Assign 1 lesson/week

:: Day 1: Student reads lesson and narrates (either written or oral)
:: Day 2: Mom (or older sibling) asks T/F and Fill-in-blank questions from end of chapter (answered orally). (10 - 15 min)
:: Day 3: Discussion questions - usually not all, just 1 - 3. Mom may assign topics from the Baltimore Catechism chapter to study further using the CCC (intro to how to use the larger Catechism, how to look things up in the index, etc.)
:: Day 4: *Read from the Bible* section. Student reads the Bible verses that pertain to that lesson. Discuss. (10 - 15 min)
:: Day 5: Oral review of questions from end of chapter OR choose another discussion question as a writing prompt for a written narration since the student should now THOROUGHLY know the subject.

With each successive Catechism I am involved more and more as a discussion point of reference as we dig into meatier parts of the faith. We only memorize #1. The memorization time spent with the Baltimore Catechism #1 has served each of my kids well, providing little pegs and reference points for them. I do think it's very important to keep going deeper after Baltimore Catechism #1 and give a child the tools to know their faith, to find out why, to see what the Church says on a given subject and know where to look. As they have each matured in their faith, they move forward very naturally from that initial memorization of the Baltimore Catechism. I have found weekly evidence in our discussions that affirm our initial memorization - a child references an answer they remember, and now they've found something about that Q&A that either addresses something they've encountered, or prompts digging deeper and understanding further. So, I continue to find value in that initial investment of time spent memorizing.

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Posted: July 30 2013 at 4:49pm \| IP Logged

That's similar to what we have been doing, we have tried to memorize No. 2 also, but it's getting too hard because the questions and answers are so long and complicated.

Has anyone tried No. 3? I don't own it, but am curious if anybody likes it.

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