| Author | |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: April 26 2011 at 10:43am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I'm looking for the correct spelling of the prayer and the hymn:
Regina Caeli?
Regina Coeli?
I've seen it both ways in numerous places. Which is correct?????
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: April 26 2011 at 11:28am | IP Logged
|
|
|
**Disclaimer** I'm not a linguist!! But I might enjoy this sorta thing. 
I believe that the digraph oe was the commonly used historical digraph in spelling coelum, but I've found instances where even the Church seems to spell it both ways.
Coelum/Caelum is a latin noun meaning *the heavens*, *vault of heaven*, *heaven*, *the sky*, *hollow*. Declining the noun to the genitive singular form gives you Coeli. (No matter the spelling, both digraphs ae/oe are pronounced *chay-lee*.)
I believe cOElum derives from the greek - koilos which means hollow. Anytime you look up the literal translation for coelum you will find *hollow* as a possible translation. In fact, you can find many latin words that attribute *coel* to the greek word, *koilos* meaning hollow. However, if you seek the translation of cAElum you'll find translations that are more fitting for the current use of the word (REGINA CAELI :: QUEEN OF HEAVEN) such as sky and heaven. The two digraphs are/were used interchangeably.
All that to say....that I don't know of a definitive answer to the historical spelling of CAELI/COELI. Both are appropriate. My missal says cAEli.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: April 26 2011 at 3:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jenn
It was always my understanding it was Coeli. Pretty positive on this as had our baby been a girl we had planned on Coeli for her middle name, deliberately changing it to Caeli.
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: May 10 2011 at 8:39am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think it's sort of like "color" vs. "colour", or "grey" vs. "gray" in English. A variation introduced either by geographical or temporal separation?
On this subject, does anyone have a link to the music for the second part of the Regina Caeli? The part that begins, "Gaude et laetare, Virgo Maria..."? I can't seem to find this anywhere, perhaps this part was spoken, not sung? 
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maryan
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 02 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3145
|
| Posted: May 10 2011 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Wow... I don't remember ever seeing it "Coeli," so I didn't know there was another form!
We chant that part Caroline and the latin prayer following, but I don't have a link. I'll look for one.
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
margot helene
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 26 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 350
|
| Posted: May 10 2011 at 1:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Here is the link to both English and Latin versions:
Regina Caeli
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: May 10 2011 at 2:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you, Margot. I appreciate your link as it has the concluding prayer well as the main Regina Caeli.However, I didn't see a link to an audio file on that site; I am looking for the music (just a simple chant will do). I have the first part in an old St. Basil hymnal, but not the second part.
Maryan, thanks for looking!
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: May 10 2011 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
stellamaris wrote:
Thank you, Margot. I appreciate your link as it has the concluding prayer well as the main Regina Caeli.However, I didn't see a link to an audio file on that site; I am looking for the music (just a simple chant will do). I have the first part in an old St. Basil hymnal, but not the second part.
Maryan, thanks for looking! |
|
|
How about You Tube?
The chant at the end is just recto tono so you really don't need music for that. The Seton cd has it at the end of the Lotti version.
Simple Chant
Simple chant, another example
Antonio Lotti version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?Gregorio Aichinger This one our choir does.
My boys sing all these -- we look forward to this season every year!
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: May 10 2011 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you, Jennifer. I did try Youtube; in fact, I did post one of the youtube chants you linked on my blog a week or two ago. But, none of those links you posted have this last section being chanted:
"Gaude et laetare, Virgo Maria, Alleluia,
Quia surrexit Dominus vere, alleluia."
So now I'm thinking it is part of the prayer which follows the Regina Caeli and that's why it is recto tono, sort of more like a spoken section? I'm going to keep looking around (but not tonight!)
ETA: Maryan says she chants this part...so somewhere there's somebody chanting it. Maryan, do you use recto tono for that part?
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: May 10 2011 at 10:24pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well, I feel I must apologize for highjacking this thread into the land of Gregorian chant! But, I have to share a resource I found for chant (which I'm sure you, Jennifer, already know about...you are so knowledgeable!). I was googling around to see if I could get a better idea of recto tono...when it changes pitch (I know it is an entire phrase on one pitch, but it seems to go up and down at the end of the phrases, and I didn't know if there was a rubric for when to do what--a little compulsive, I know  ). Anyway, this text is free online, in the public domain:
The Textbook of Gregorian Chant according to the Solesmes Method
In just looking over it briefly, it looks very thorough and clear.
Now I'll stop sidetracking your thread, Jennifer! 
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maryan
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 02 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3145
|
| Posted: May 11 2011 at 7:20am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I looked and looked and you're right Caroline -- no one seems to have the chant following!
Recto tono soounds like how I sing it (Jenn is way more knowledgeable). So I would sing: Gaude et laetare, Virgo Maria, (little break) Al-le-lu... (all on an E, for example) and then sing the -ia 1 1/2 steps lower on a C#
And the same for the Quia...
But the prayer I start "Oremus" (same style, drop on last syllable) but then the rest of the chant has some drops in different places. I didn't study chant as extensively as Jenn, so I have no idea what that's called.
My battery is dead, but when it charges, I'll try making a video of us chanting it at dinner. Again -- this is just how we've done it!
These are the words in latin (but the video doesn't include them: http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2007/05/audio-chant-regina -caeli.html
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: May 11 2011 at 8:19am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Wow, thanks Maryan! I'd love to see you all chanting it!
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: May 11 2011 at 8:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Caroline, you didn't hijack the thread! I love to talk music!
Recto tono would be the one note throughout, with occasional drops, like Maryan said.
I keep plugging the Seton cd because it has that example!
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: May 11 2011 at 8:46am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yes, I can't imagine why I have never noticed that CD before in their catalog...weird! But it looks great and I'm going to go ahead and get it. I really liked the samples I played last night from the link you provided. Thanks again, Jennifer!
ETA: I see why now...it's Seton SCHOOL, not the Home Study Seton...where's the lightbulb-coming-on icon???
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maryan
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 02 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3145
|
| Posted: May 11 2011 at 9:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Another plug: Jenn's mom did the Seton CD and Jenn played. It has a great selection of liturgical music that is hard to find anywhere else! We use it all.the.time. In fact I need to order another because a well meaning 3 yo scratched ours.
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maryan
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 02 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3145
|
| Posted: May 12 2011 at 8:42am | IP Logged
|
|
|
So here it is! Nothing fancy nor elaborate. I linked to the blog, so you didn't have to see all the You Tube ads.
Regina Caeli sung
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: May 12 2011 at 9:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
That is fabulous!!! You have a lovely voice, and what a joy to see your boys singing along. Tell them for me that they did a SUPER good job! Our Lady must be very pleased to hear such young voices raised in song celebrating her Son's Resurrection. Thank you again for posting that, Maryan!
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maryan
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 02 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3145
|
| Posted: May 12 2011 at 9:21am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks Caroline! I got distracted in the last prayer (my Marion started to fuss), so the part that you needed most ended up being a little muted as I turned my head away.   But hopefully it will do!
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
DominaCaeli
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
|
| Posted: May 12 2011 at 10:46am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you for posting your video, Maryan! We sing this every morning after breakfast as well, though we don't include the final part of the chant--maybe we will now. Anyway, thank you so much for sharing!
__________________
Blessings,
Celeste
Joyous Lessons
Mommy to six: three boys (8, 4, newborn) and four girls (7, 5, 2, and 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MichelleW
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 01 2005
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 947
|
| Posted: May 12 2011 at 1:23pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Maryan! So lovely!
__________________
Michelle
Mom to 3 (dd 14, ds 15, and ds 16)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: So Which One Is It? Latin help, please!
