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Alison
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| Posted: Jan 01 2010 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
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Hi
I was wondering if anyone has read the following books and if so they would care to share.we had various interesting discussions with "disciples" of Richard Dawkins plus others who claim to be post modernists (such a crazy philosophy!!)over Christmas getogethers so I'm wondering if these books would make good reading or if anyone could recommend others.
"A Catholic Replies to Professor Dawkins" by Thomas Crean
"Answering the New Atheism: Dismantling Dawkins' Case Against God" by Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wiker
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folklaur
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| Posted: Jan 01 2010 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
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no - but they sure look interesting.
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Jan 01 2010 at 7:29pm | IP Logged
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Not a book but a good movie is Expelled.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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anitamarie
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I read Answering the New Atheism, and it was very good. There's some math/statistics in the first few chapters that threw my Mom for a loop. It didn't bother me, though. I thought they did a very good job of "dismantling Dawkins". I highly recommend it.
Anita
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CrunchyMom
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My spiritual director loaned me Atheist Delusions. The author is not Catholic, he's Orthodox, I believe. I haven't read all of it, but it what I have read is good! It is a theological book and not quite as question/answer as the others referenced.
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Jan 16 2010 at 11:58am | IP Logged
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I've been meaning to come back and post to this topic based on a reply that was posted here, but is no longer here (removed by the member who posted it.) I wanted to clarify that I wasn't recommending Expelled be given to your atheist friends, but as an interesting resource for yourself (which is how I read your request.) To see Mr. Hawkins in action is worth the watch!
Also, the deleted reply mentioned that (trying not to misrepresent) our exmple of faithful living is more important than discussion about these matters, which will be dismissed. This saying, "Preach the Gospel at all times. When necessary, use words" is often attributed to St. Francis...emphasizing our living over our talking. Yet, talking and words are also so important...I would say critically important when talking to our atheist friends and family. It is my experience that I would rather have my words dimissed rather than have no words at all to share! If I had to choose key words, they would be in the form of questions...asking questions of my friends. There are many great questions to ask that focus on the first step of answering the big questions, "Is there a God?" You can become well versed in something like Pascal's Wager or another line of wondering that opens up discussion. The early part of Peter Kreeft's book, The Fundamentals of Faith might give you more ideas, too. One line of questioning I like to use is the simple, "If you were flying in an airplane and you looked below and saw a bunch of rocks that reads "SOS", would you assume that someone created the sign or would you assume that an act of randomness, perhaps a storm, put them there?" Makes for an interesting discussion. The key for me is to stay humble, interested, kind, listening, and joyful. Oooooooooo which makes me think of GK Chesterton. You might want to get your eyes on him - well, sort of through a show about him aired on EWTN - The Apostle of Common Sense. Goodness, I wish I could be so clear and kind with my words!
The big questions, in short:
Is there a God? Is the God of Abraham the One True God, who He says He is? If there is, if He is, how does that affect how I should live?
Is Christ who He says He is? If so, how does that affect how I should live?
Is the Catholic Church who she says she is? If so, how does that affect how I should live?
May God bless you in your efforts to share the Gospel!
Love,
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Angie Mc
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 16 2010 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| This saying, "Preach the Gospel at all times. When necessary, use words" is often attributed to St. Francis...emphasizing our living over our talking. |
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To truly follow this quote, you have to have the words to use when it's "necessary". And "necessary" is so subjective, we never know when what we say or do may influence others in a critical step. We do need to "be prepared".
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folklaur
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Angie Mc wrote:
| I've been meaning to come back and post to this topic based on a reply that was posted here, but is no longer here (removed by the member who posted it.) I wanted to clarify that I wasn't recommending Expelled be given to your atheist friends, but as an interesting resource for yourself (which is how I read your request.) To see Mr. Hawkins in action is worth the watch! |
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...tiptoeing in....
i really am debating posting this, because i don't want to be misunderstood.
yes - i agree with watching Dawkins (you meant dawkins, right?) was enlightening.
but - expelled the movie is not really a good resource. not really. it uses manipulation of emotions, and in other points, it downright fibs.
since they have to use these tactics, i would really hesitate in putting a lot of credence in their conclusions.
...tiptoeing back out....
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 11:07am | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
...tiptoeing in... ...tiptoeing back out.... |
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Why are you tiptoeing, Laura?
Love,
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Angie Mc
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lapazfarm
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I think I know why Laura is tiptoeing. This is a hot topic and can get ugly pretty quickly, even amongst the best of friends. So it pays to tread lightly. It's why I hesitate to even enter it at all.
I have many atheist friends and relatives and the one thing I emphasize with them, and why we have vital common ground, is the fact that it truly is possible to understand and believe in evolution AND in God. It doesn't have to be one or the other. (Our beloved Church allows for evolution, our past two Popes have said so, as long as we understand that God is behind it all and that each human soul is a special creation of God.)
So once they understand that I am not asking them to throw out scientific thought in order to believe in God, we have a starting point for conversion.
Whether or not you believe that evolution is real or not, coming at a true Dawkins follower by attacking evolution is not going to work, at least not in my experience. What we can do to open dialogue is to go ahead and concede that point (whether we believe in it ourselves or not), accept that they CAN believe in evolution, and then show them that DOES NOT preclude belief in God. THAT is where Dawkins goes wacko, IMHO. He insists that accepting science means that we must reject God, when in fact it does not.
I feel that this is our best in-road because this is where Dawkins makes his errors.If we can be prepared to concede that his science may be sound, then we can rip into his completely illogical conclusions.
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
| So once they understand that I am not asking them to throw out scientific thought in order to believe in God, we have a starting point for conversion...coming at a true Dawkins follower by attacking evolution is not going to work, at least not in my experience.... |
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I agree, Theresa. Thanks. That's why, in part, I don't focus on evolution/ID etc., but rather on the question, "Is there a God." There are an infinite number of ways to come at this question...respectfully...comfortably. I think that is the key - to find your strengths and comfort zone in order to best articulate your answers to this question - not feel compelled to stay within the confines of the theory of evolution. I'm not a scientist by trade and I would be a fool to go head to head with anyone well-versed on evolution/ID etc. But that doesn't mean that I shouldn't talk at all - which can be how one feels when one is dismissed for that reason. I am very willing to concede my weaknesses and be truthful about my limited knowledge about evolution and other scientific bones of contention. You are right to mention being willing to concede points, this is so important. It adds to the humanity of the discussion. So a helpful question to ask oneself might be...
What are my strengths and interests that I can pull from in order to respectfully discuss matters of faith with my atheist friends and family? I tend to go from my strength of having a genuine interest in the topic of apologetics and empathy/experience being away from the Church.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Catholic vs Atheist
