| Author | |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 10:21am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Looking ahead this Advent December 6 and December 13 are Sundays in Advent. That would mean St. Nicholas and St. Lucy are not on the calendar, as Sunday takes precedence.
So, trying to follow the Church's mind and put Sundays first, how do you incorporate feast day traditions?
My initial thoughts is to talk and prepare for Nicholas and Lucia during the weekdays, and end on Saturday (we have several books on both). The only exception would be putting out the Stockings or shoes on Saturday night -- I'm trying to decide move it up a day or not.
I don't do Lucia morning, but it seems if I did, I'd still have the morning breakfast in bed. Depends on the family's schedule. We have more time usually on Sunday morning.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 10:31am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think we'll put out stockings for St. Nicholas on Friday night.....it's just too crazy on Sunday morning to do "that" too.
And, we do a St. Lucia early morning dark b-fast in bed, but usually end up moving it anyway, as it's usually around a weekend when we're gone to the mountains for the weekend. And, I always have to plan around dh being in town, as it's def. something that's more fun with dad, so we just move it to when he is in town.
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 10:40am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well... Easter baskets aren't set out until after Church (get kids into van and I have them all ready in my room and set them out.. I'm normally a few minutes behind everyone anyway)
So that could also be an option.. that St. Nicholas will leave them while we're at church.
But I am still dealing with fire season and the alternate schedule for dh.. he doesn't get Sundays off in summer (no one does).. this is still pretty far off my radar.
But I don't see any real conflict with doing a celebration along with the Advent traditions. It seems to me that reading about a Saint IS Sunday material. 
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 10:47am | IP Logged
|
|
|
We'll be doing the same as you, Jenn...reading our books and doing some of our activities during the week. For example, baking for St. Nicholas will be done during the week, but we'll save some of the treats and feasting for Sunday which seems appropriate for a mini-Easter.
Stockings will be hung on Saturday night because we have mid-day Mass on Sundays anyway which gives us some time in the mornings.
St. Lucia morning will still be on Sunday morning, and we'll shift from that to focus on our Lord's resurrection for the day. We'll read about her during the week.
I almost never spend just one day preparing for favorite family celebrations anyway, so it's not too foreign to lay the groundwork and read together before the actual feast. On these Sundays, we'll do the stockings and St. Lucy traditions in the mornings and then shift right into our normal Sunday traditions to focus on Our Lord's Resurrection for the rest of the day.
I actually find it harder to celebrate things on a weekend...when daddy is home my routine is all messed up and we all tend to orbit around him anyway. By the end of the day, I'm thinkin, "Aw, nuts! I forgot to read about..." So, I like reading ahead and then doing the fun project/stocking/celebration on the day of with daddy.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 11:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
JodieLyn wrote:
| But I don't see any real conflict with doing a celebration along with the Advent traditions. It seems to me that reading about a Saint IS Sunday material. |
|
|
While it's not wrong, the priority of the Liturgical Year is the Paschal Mystery, manifested by the Temporal calendar, which follows the life of Christ through the Sundays and the liturgical seasons and liturgical feasts.
The document "General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar" lays it all out, including the Table of Liturgical Days which show precedent. This isn't something new with the current calendar, but has always been the Church's focus.
Regarding Sundays:
Quote:
4. The Church celebrates the paschal mystery on the first day of the week, known as the Lord's Day or Sunday. This follows a tradition handed down from the apostles and having its origin from the day of Christ's resurrection. Thus Sunday must be ranked as the first holyday of all. [3]
5. Because of its special importance, the Sunday celebration gives way only to solemnities or feasts of the Lord. The Sundays of the seasons of Advent, Lent, and Easter, however, take precedence over all solemnities and feasts of the Lord. Solemnities occuring on these Sundays are observed on the Saturdays preceding. |
|
|
The saints are the Sanctoral calendar, which
On the Sacred Liturgy wrote:
| 166. In the course of the liturgical year, besides the mysteries of Jesus Christ, the feasts of the saints are celebrated. Even though these feasts are of a lower and subordinate order, the Church always strives to put before the faithful examples of sanctity in order to move them to cultivate in themselves the virtues of the divine Redeemer. |
|
|
Saints' days being subordinate are not really following what the liturgy of Sundays would be. That's why saints' days are bumped when Sundays come along. It's all the priority of feasts.
It's harder to find ways to celebrate Sunday as Sunday for me. It doesn't come naturally, but I'm trying.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
hmmm but I wasn't talking about not celebrating Sunday. But rather.. there's enough time when we're not doing something in particular for celebrating Sunday that I'm not sure why it would be wrong to add in reading about a saint or other activity.
Sunday is also supposed to be a day of rest.. so it's not like we're supposed to jam pack it with *stuff* to do.
Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:
2193 "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound . . . to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body" (CIC, can. 1247).
|
|
|
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MicheleQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2193
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 12:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
JennGM wrote:
| While it's not wrong, the priority of the Liturgical Year is the Paschal Mystery, manifested by the Temporal calendar, which follows the life of Christ through the Sundays and the liturgical seasons and liturgical feasts. |
|
|
I didn't know this when I first started making my planners and I listed certain saints on Sundays. After some reading later I found out I should NOT do that because the Church does not. Whoops! My bad. 
In all our celebrations of the liturgical year sometimes we forget that's it all about the liturgy, all about the mass and it's the Church that set those guidelines, not our personal preference.
I was reminded of this again recently when I was making the 2010 calendar and realized that Dec. 12th falls on a Sunday that year and Our Lady of Guadalupe gives way to the 3rd Sunday of Advent. I LOVE Our Lady of Guadalupe but we won't be celebrating her feast on Dec. 12th in 2010 because that is the 3rd Sun. of Advent.
This year it's St. Lucy that gives way to the 3rd Sunday of Advent and while it's not wrong as in morally wrong to celebrate that day, it really isn't proper either. I know that's hard to see for some but it has helped me to ask "What would the Saint want? What would Our Lord want?" and the answer always come down obedience to what the Church has prescribed.
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 12:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'm not arguing that Sunday doesn't take precidence.. but that some of these days have become part of our family lives or culture.. and
Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:
| 2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done,"121 human life has a rhythm of work and rest. The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.122 |
|
|
That those are things that the Sunday as a day of rest is supposed to cultivate.. not eliminate.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 12:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Holy Mother Church has asked that we keep Sundays set aside as a mini-Easter, that their focus be primarily on Our Lord's Resurrection. Before this was decided and set in place on the new calendar, there were minor feasts observed on Sundays. On the new calendar, if a feast, such as St. Nicholas or St. Lucy, falls on a Sunday, it gets bumped in order to leave the primary liturgical focus on Sunday's mini-Easter.
Thus Jenn's question.
These are two feast day celebrations that many families find important and part of their family traditions, so how do we celebrate them without usurping the primary feast which is the Sunday feast.?
MicheleQ wrote:
| it has helped me to ask "What would the Saint want? What would Our Lord want?" and the answer always come down obedience to what the Church has prescribed. |
|
|
I think this is an great point! The saints, like Our Lady, always point to Our Lord.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
JodieLyn wrote:
I'm not arguing that Sunday doesn't take precidence.. but that some of these days have become part of our family lives or culture.. and
Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:
| 2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done,"121 human life has a rhythm of work and rest. The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.122 |
|
|
That those are things that the Sunday as a day of rest is supposed to cultivate.. not eliminate. |
|
|
I understand your point, but I can't really see that there is anything in a family tradition of celebrating St. Nicholas or St. Lucy that would be lost in celebrating it on the Saturday before rather than on the Sunday.
Having to move those feasts and explain to children old enough to pay attention to the calendar would also be a wonderful way of emphasizing and illustrating the Church's teachings regarding Sunday as a mini-Easter.
Maybe those Sundays following celebrating the moved feast day (or the day before if you postpone it to MOnday instead) would be an opportunity to institute a new Sunday tradition or expand on an existing one. We often speak of making Sunday different, but we've yet to really adopt any of the new traditions we consider. This might be a good opportunity to use as a starting point (instead of the pressure of just starting it some random Sunday and then procrastinating until next week).
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 1:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
No Lindsay, mostly I'm feeling completely ignored.. no you are not understanding my point. Everything everyone is saying is insisting that to add something to a Sunday *at home* (we're not talking liturgical celebrations at church) then that automatically is trumping the Sunday celebration.. that you can't have 2 things go on the same day with one having priority..
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
donnalynn
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 24 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 581
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 1:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
+
__________________
donnalynn
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MicheleQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2193
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 1:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
JennGM wrote:
| My initial thoughts is to talk and prepare for Nicholas and Lucia during the weekdays, and end on Saturday (we have several books on both). The only exception would be putting out the Stockings or shoes on Saturday night -- I'm trying to decide move it up a day or not. |
|
|
I think this is a good plan but we will set our shoes out Friday night because I really do not want to in any way have there be confusion about the fact that a Sunday in Advent is of high importance and those goodies in the shoes can be a mighty big distraction.
CrunchyMom wrote:
| I understand your point, but I can't really see that there is anything in a family tradition of celebrating St. Nicholas or St. Lucy that would be lost in celebrating it on the Saturday before rather than on the Sunday. |
|
|
And think about it. When the calendar changed, some of the Saint's days changed too, so depending on what calendar you follow certain feasts are different days anyway. And then there's the fact that the Eastern churches also celebrate some on different days (St. Matthew is Sept. 21st in the West but Nov. 16th in the East).
I was talking to my dh about this and he remarked that we need to be careful not to become superstitious about the the "right day" and that the whole point in celebrating a Saint is in following their example as men and women who followed Christ. Think about all those people who got SO upset about St. Patrick's day not being celebrated in lent a few years ago or the moving of St. Joseph. Do you think St. Patrick or St. Joseph were upset about it? I'm guessing not.
Quote:
| Having to move those feasts and explain to children old enough to pay attention to the calendar would also be a wonderful way of emphasizing and illustrating the Church's teachings regarding Sunday as a mini-Easter. |
|
|
Absolutely!
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 1:15pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
JodieLyn wrote:
| No Lindsay, mostly I'm feeling completely ignored.. no you are not understanding my point. Everything everyone is saying is insisting that to add something to a Sunday *at home* (we're not talking liturgical celebrations at church) then that automatically is trumping the Sunday celebration.. that you can't have 2 things go on the same day with one having priority.. |
|
|
I'm not sure if I'm understanding you. I think we might be saying the same thing.
I'm saying, let the Mass and liturgy take precedence and let Sunday *be*. I'm not saying add on Sunday hoopla because it is Sunday.
But I'm also saying move the saints festivities since they are dear traditions so that the liturgical season and Sunday liturgy takes precedence. If I put a saint's festivities on Sunday, when the Church isn't celebrating it, I am sending mixed messages. I'm saying the saint is more important than what the Church says.
The whole point of living the liturgical year is to be united to the Church's liturgy. I'm not doing that in spirit or in action if I'm just deciding willy-nilly to celebrate my own way.
Is the word "celebrate" what is throwing you off? I just mean treating Sunday holy, like Pope John Paul's Encyclical.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 1:16pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
MicheleQ wrote:
JennGM wrote:
| My initial thoughts is to talk and prepare for Nicholas and Lucia during the weekdays, and end on Saturday (we have several books on both). The only exception would be putting out the Stockings or shoes on Saturday night -- I'm trying to decide move it up a day or not. |
|
|
I think this is a good plan but we will set our shoes out Friday night because I really do not want to in any way have there be confusion about the fact that a Sunday in Advent is of high importance and those goodies in the shoes can be a mighty big distraction.
|
|
|
I appreciate everyone's responses. I love being able to toss around an idea. I'm now leaning to moving it either Saturday or Monday...definitely Lindsay's point rings so true to me. Make it happen now!
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 1:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
JodieLyn wrote:
| No Lindsay, mostly I'm feeling completely ignored.. no you are not understanding my point. Everything everyone is saying is insisting that to add something to a Sunday *at home* (we're not talking liturgical celebrations at church) then that automatically is trumping the Sunday celebration.. that you can't have 2 things go on the same day with one having priority.. |
|
|
No, I think I do, but if I were to give my children stockings on a Sunday, the excitement over getting presents would definitely trump going to mass for them, and the emphasis of the day would be on "St. Nicholas brought me candy today" rather than remembering the day as significant for itself.
As someone said, it isn't "morally" wrong to do it, but I can certainly see why someone would choose to move the celebration in accordance with the Church.
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 1:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Wow, I cross-posted with everyone, lol.
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 2:02pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
No, I think I just mistook this for a discussion rather than wanting ideas on one way of doing things.
Certainly, change the days.. I do it with everything else.. small kids won't read the calendar anyway and know that you're on the wrong day.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mattie
Forum Rookie
Joined: July 14 2008
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 2:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hello Jen,
"My initial thoughts is to talk and prepare for Nicholas and Lucia during the weekdays, and end on Saturday (we have several books on both). The only exception would be putting out the Stockings or shoes on Saturday night -- I'm trying to decide move it up a day or not. "
Oh, could you please give me your titles on Saint Lucia, my youngest's name is Lucie and I have such a hard time finding books!
thank you so very much!
Mattie
__________________
Mattie
Maman to 4 beautiful mountain kids in CO
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: Sept 23 2009 at 2:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Looking at this from a completely different point of view. Holy Mother Church is so wise in caring for her children. I, for one, appreciate having to only focus on Sunday when it is Sunday. This way our Sunday habits/traditions can focus on the Resurrection and on rest and prayer; adding another feast on top of that is really a strain of activity for the mother of a larger family. So from my perspective, I am glad that there is a priority to the celebrations. We enjoy the St. Nicholas traditions that we have here, but we will easily move them to Friday or Saturday; too much at one time is simply too much. It has the feel to me of cramming everything in just to "get it done" and it doesn't seem to promote either holy thoughts or righteous behavior, at least for me!
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Keeping Sundays a Priority
