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Becky J
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| Posted: Nov 17 2008 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
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I am feeling really discouraged today about the difficulty of finding an orthodox parish where I live.
We don't live in a bad diocese but find that every parish we turn to has some sort of problem.
The parish closest to us is fairly irreverent. (I.e., Tabernacle is off to the side, people chit chat loudly before Mass.)
So, we belong to one further away that is supposedly one of the most orthodox parishes in our area. Our parochial vicar, a newly ordained priest, has seemed very orthodox and was very courageous in speaking the Truth during the recent election season. But now he is doing some things that seem to be against the liturgical rubrics, like having children gather around the altar and hold hands during the Our Father. Furthermore, we are tired of the hippety-hoppety music at this parish.
So, we have thought about giving the local FSSP parish a second look. I know a lot of families who go there and while we have tried it out, we have not joined, mainly because it is a long drive away. Sadly, I have just found out that there is a great deal of infighting there and that one of the priests is even transferring away because of it.
So sometimes it seems like one has nowhere to turn -- no stable parish to take one's family to and get involved in.
I know we should be seeking our stability and perfection in Christ and not in each other, since we all have our flaws and foibles. But does anyone share my discouragement? Are you happy with the parish your family is involved in? If you are ambivalent, how have you made your peace with your situation?
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Nov 17 2008 at 3:43pm | IP Logged
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Since churches are peopled with.. well.. people.. who are imperfect.. you won't find a perfect parish.. all you can really do is find one that you can help move toward perfection.
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10 Bright Stars
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Well, don't ignore the obvious...you can make a difference by your example. At our parish, a few devout moms all started wearing a veil to mass due to various reasons. Suddenly, A LOT of women, mostly young moms and a few older ladies are wearing the veil. Why, because people really look up to these few holy women, all young moms. Then, people started genuflecting to receive Our Lord, or kneeling to receive. Only a few did at first, but now MOST people at least genuflect or make a MORE profound bow then they may have in the past, and very few receive in the hand anymore. No matter what everyone's opinion is on how to receive or to veil or not ( I don't wear one currently), my point is, I honestly believe that it was the holy example of these FEW very devout families, who, with their reverent mannerisms etc., and their modest dress made people at least stop to think about what they were wearing and how they received the Eucharist. One person affected another person who affected someone else, just by their EXAMPLE. So, one person CAN make a difference! Think of Jesus!! 
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mathmama
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| Posted: Nov 18 2008 at 5:55am | IP Logged
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Becky J wrote:
I know we should be seeking our stability and perfection in Christ and not in each other, since we all have our flaws and foibles.
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Becky,
IMO, this is the key. You can find the perfect parish, with the perfect priest, and perfect members, but it will not stay that way. People are weak and will ultimately disappoint you. I am going through this now myself  One of families in our church who once was probably the core of our church has recently taken a *really* big fall in my eyes. It has caused a lot of division in our parish and a lot of sadness in my heart. When I was discovering all this I felt that I was slipping downhill on sand. Then I remembered that my hope is in Christ and not this or any other family. Then I was on firm ground again.
That said, I would have a hard time going to a church where the people were openly irreverent but I would have more of a problem going to a church where the priest wasn't setting a good example. In fighting in a church can be so bad (I am saying this from example), but you could definitely be a force for change in a situation like that. Like someone else said, you could change people by your example.
I hope that you find a place where you can feel at home.
Beth
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CrunchyMom
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You won't find the perfect parish, that's for sure.
From your description, I would try going to the FSSP for a while. I think it would be easier to ignore infighting and distance yourself from that kind of stuff than it is to ignore liturgical things. I would go (and do, even though our TLM situation has its own issues) to the place where I could show the greatest reverence during the sacrifice of the mass.
There simply isn't a parish in our diocese at present which offers a mass that is consistently reverent without abuses in the new form. So, at present at least, I find the older form to fill our family's desire for a beautiful liturgy.
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Marcia
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| Posted: Nov 18 2008 at 4:16pm | IP Logged
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I think much good has been said so far. I ditto the others. You won't find perfection this side of the Parousia.
Prayers that you can find HOPE and rest in a parish for your whole family. We've been through your "looking for the best parish" thing. You can always find something worth staying even at a parish that might seem less than perfect.
the verse that comes to mind is "I did not come to save the righteous, but the sinner" so a church should be full of sinners. :)
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Angie Mc
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Hi, Becky. I do understand your concern and heart ache. Here are a few thoughts that have helped me over the years...
A parish is like a large extended family, slow to change, full of characters, perfectly suited to challenge me to be a saint.
I can be reverent and kind no matter what is happening around me. (I close my eyes and smile a lot.)
When a Mass is not conducted according to the GIRM, I can offer up my loss. (I can also consider discussing the matter with the priest and then the Bishop if appropriate.)
I can focus on what is true, just, beautiful, etc. and not dwell on what falls short.
When I am pained by irreverence, I can pray for the person/s involved, offer up my suffering, and remember that Christ has suffered more times than I can count because of me .
Pray for peace. God provides in His time.
Love,
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CrunchyMom
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Another thought, one of the biggest reasons we switched liturgies was so that our children wouldn't be exposed to things in the mass that we would feel the need to correct. I know what to "ignore" but they take it all in, yk?
I didn't want my children to have me being critical of a priest, but I also wouldn't want things like the priest going down to join the congregation holding hands and saying the Our Father to be normal, either.
Now, I think that one does the best one can in their given situation, but I am glad we aren't *forced* to deal with it by having an alternative. We still go to a reverent daily mass in the newer form. Trying the FSSP parish doesn't mean you have to keep going if you find things are too much there or the trip too much. I just remember the relief I felt after the first few Sundays of leaving mass without feeling frustrated. I understand that one can be made holy by offering up that frustration, but it sure is easier not having to 
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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4 lads mom
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| Posted: Nov 20 2008 at 5:40am | IP Logged
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Oh Boy!!! This has been our life since moving to our new state over a year ago. We had been at a FSSP parish for almost 10 yrs....and now that isn't available. The Masses, both ones in Ordinary and Extraordinary Form have been difficult to attend in this diocese. We have been going to a Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy. If there is one in your city, I would highly recommend it!!! That Liturgy is older than the Latin Mass!!!! It is beautiful, and I leave feeling like, now THAT is the way it SHOULD be!!! I say all of that not like I am in charge of liturgical correctness, I realize what everyone says is true, there is NO perfect parish, and I am certainly right there at the front of the line for non-perfect! BUT, I feel lost and sad when Mass is a constant jar to my already stressed out senses, having a special needs baby and not a lot of suppport around here....I need a liturgy that doesn't stress me out. I have always loved the Byzantine Divine Liturgy....please try it out if possibe!! That said, one of my kiddos isn't that fond of it, and we will probably split time between a decent NO and the Divine Liturgy....it is never perfect!!!! 
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SusanMc
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So many good things have been mentioned that I hesitate to add my modest suggestion. I've found that the earlier the mass, the more reverent it is. The 8 a.m. mass at our parish doesn't have music (which I miss) but there are no gum chewers and fewer talkers as well. It is no big deal if you choose to hold hands or not during the Our Father. 9:30 a.m. has mostly traditional music and more families. 11:30 a.m. is full of contemporary and in my opinion liturgically questionable music. The 6:30 p.m. mass across town uses an amplified rock band and sings the Our Father to the tune of a Rolling Stones song (As Tears Go By).
I put a lot of emphasis on being physically close to our parish when possible because I want my kids to be able to walk to confession, mass, and activities when they wish. Perhaps checking out a different mass might yield positive results for you?
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Becky J
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| Posted: Nov 20 2008 at 2:47pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, everyone, for your helpful comments so far.
Yesterday, I had a chance to talk with a mom I know who is a longterm member of the local FSSP parish. She advised me not to get discouraged by the controversy there. She said that, really, there is just a handful of curmudgeons at the parish who complain about this, that, and the other thing. She said most of the members of the parish get along very well.
I think that having the most reverent parish one can find as one's "usual" parish is probably the approach I favor, but not ruling out occasional attendance at other parishes as long as the deviations from the rubrics are not too egregious. (I like the idea of Sunday Mass at the FSSP parish, daily Mass at the closest NO parish.) I have always tended to be "all or nothing" in my thinking and if I can't have something perfect, don't want it at all. I think it would be good for my kids to be more flexible. Yes, the kind of reverence that one experiences at a TLM is what I want them to view as the norm. However, I don't want them to be so scandalized by a guitar-happy liturgy that they can't accept it as a valid Mass. I know it's a fine line to walk.
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Marcia
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| Posted: Nov 20 2008 at 4:26pm | IP Logged
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mom of 4 lads....I agree the Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy (Liturgy of St. John Cryststom) IS wonderful. I love the singing and the movement.
sadly the three hour drive each week is too much for us.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Discouraged by parish problems
